I'd rather take the 4 first rounders than give Bouwmeester 8 a year.
I would have to agree... Those first round picks could be used in trades to fill the multiple holes in this team. Jaybo's an amazing player, but in a cap system, investment into a complete team of good/great players is a better investment than investing in one or two superb ones.
I would have to agree... Those first round picks could be used in trades to fill the multiple holes in this team. Jaybo's an amazing player, but in a cap system, investment into a complete team of good/great players is a better investment than investing in one or two superb ones.
I agree with that philosophy. Tampa Bay was a cautionary tale. In the near future, Pittsburgh (once Malkin signs his new contract) will be the next example. I'm curious to see how it will work out for them.
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I really don't think LA would give up as much as some are proposing for Bouwmeester.
The one post that had Stuart, Brown, and Frolov in our lineup also was missing Olli Jokinen, so I'm guessing the actual proposal there was Olli and JBo for those three...but I don't know. It wasn't specified
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"...and ultimately it doesn't matter."
I agree with that philosophy. Tampa Bay was a cautionary tale. In the near future, Pittsburgh (once Malkin signs his new contract) will be the next example. I'm curious to see how it will work out for them.
It's a lot easier affording elite skaters in the Cap ERA without $6 million dollar a year goalies.
LA will never trade two core pieces for Jay its just never going to happen. Look at the return for guys like Pronger. Bouwmeester will never net back in a trade what he's worth. If Vanek got 7 per than bouw is worth 8. He's a franchise defender and last time I checked there arent too many of them. Maybe than can trade Jay for 3 players then the following year they can trade their first for a #1 dman to undo the damage of a trade. Oh and on the record ZERO chance campbell comes here. ZERO.
No way he gets 8. Campbell coming here has a better chance than Jay getting 8.
Last edited by Panthers Rock: 04-10-2008 at 08:54 PM.
Reason: Removed potentially offensive text quoted
The one post that had Stuart, Brown, and Frolov in our lineup also was missing Olli Jokinen, so I'm guessing the actual proposal there was Olli and JBo for those three...but I don't know. It wasn't specified
That was me. I forgot about Olli. Its even better lol.
4 1st Round Picks ? Keep in mind that whatever prospects you draft with those are will probably not play for at minimum 2 years. Only exceptional talents like Crosby,Ovechkin, and Malkin can make the jump the year after they are drafted. We should be drafting best player available with every pick, no team expects to fill "holes" with draft picks on ther NHL team. Draft picks are not sure thing, especially with this franchise. Bouwmeester is already a known commodity.
I'd rather give Bouwmeester 8 million dollars a year than take a step backwards as a franchise.
Well, giving Bouw 8 million dollars a year is sort of taken 1 step forward, 2 steps back, as with an 8 mil per year deal, it'll be difficult if it's very longterm, to manage the cap when other players will be demanding the same o more money in the future i.e. Frolik, Matthias, Repik, Weiss, Horton, Vokoun, Olesz, etc....
I'm sure we could do it but if we do have to sign a first line forward on offense at one point or another, we won't be able to throw the dollars if 8 million of them are tied up in an 8-mil undeserving Bouw.
4 first rounders for Bouw isn't good. It'd be 4 years until the 4th player in that deal is even drafted, at least another 2 probably until they even could make the roster. Let's say 3 out of 4 make it to be productive players in the NHL. Their impact wouldn't be felt until 2014 pretty much. By then, it's a safe bet to say that there will be few players left from the current team. Everyone on the roster could be gone by then, who knows. Look back to 2002 and see who we still have. Weiss, Bouw, Jokinen are the 3 main players, and Jokinen was just starting to become good in 2002, whereas Weiss and Bouw were rookies. Taking 4 firsts is bad, unless we'd immediately turn them around and trade them for players now. LA will not give up Brown and Frolov in a trade. For Bouwmeester, Cammellari would be in a trade just because he's semi-expendable from LA, their 2nd overall would have to be in play, and also, we'd maybe need to throw something else in to get something else of value back. Someone scoffed at O'sullivan but he scored 50+ points this year in his first full NHL season. Maybe we could get Brown+O'Sullivan+ for Bouw, but I'd highly doubt any of that would even happen.
As good as Campbell is on offense, he is not as good defensively as Bouwmeester. Ideally, you would have both. But I would prefer Bouw meester. Because of his speed,positioning, and reach he is more suited to defending players like Kovalchuk and Ovechkin. I also think he is rounding out offensively 15 goals, 37 pts is nothing to sneer at. His average time on ice has increased every year. If he is traded, I am pretty much calling it quits as a Panther fan. Trading the best player in a deal almost never works out.
I have to agree with you Haj. Campbell doesn't replace Bouwmeester at all. We lose our best defensive player in Bouwmeester, who also has a pretty good offensive game, and replace him with a somewhat one-dimensional offensive d-man. I see a lot of the same problems in Campbell's defensive game as Ozo had in Florida: he panics and makes bad decisions in his own end. Although he is a lot faster than an aging Ozolinsh. I'm not saying he's a bad player, he just doesn't fill the whole that would be left by letting Jay go, and I doubt JM could get him to sign down here anyway.
the unrest in the front office, can't be good for Bouw talks..
The smart move for Bouw would be to take a one year arbiters decision and then see how the Panthers season plays out and not give Florida a chance to match an offer sheet. That would mean starting January, the front office turmoil has settled down and the Panthers are holding on to a solid playoff position in which case Bouw might want to enter serious discussions about a new long term contract or if the Panthers are not in that position, the Cats would put him on the market.
The smart move for Bouw would be to take a one year arbiters decision and then see how the Panthers season plays out and not give Florida a chance to match an offer sheet. That would mean starting January, the front office turmoil has settled down and the Panthers are holding on to a solid playoff position in which case Bouw might want to enter serious discussions about a new long term contract or if the Panthers are not in that position, the Cats would put him on the market.
I agree with everyone of your posts. You know that. This is idiotic. This will never happen. This is a bad idea. Sorry for disagreeing with you one time
I agree with everyone of your posts. You know that. This is idiotic. This will never happen. This is a bad idea. Sorry for disagreeing with you one time
Didn't say it was the smart move for the Panthers, I said it was the smart move for Bouw. At this moment in time, those two things are very different.
The smart move for Bouw would be to take a one year arbiters decision and then see how the Panthers season plays out and not give Florida a chance to match an offer sheet. That would mean starting January, the front office turmoil has settled down and the Panthers are holding on to a solid playoff position in which case Bouw might want to enter serious discussions about a new long term contract or if the Panthers are not in that position, the Cats would put him on the market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 39ontheline
I agree with everyone of your posts. You know that. This is idiotic. This will never happen. This is a bad idea. Sorry for disagreeing with you one time
And to think, I thought you two were two of the same.
The smart move for Bouw would be to take a one year arbiters decision and then see how the Panthers season plays out and not give Florida a chance to match an offer sheet. That would mean starting January, the front office turmoil has settled down and the Panthers are holding on to a solid playoff position in which case Bouw might want to enter serious discussions about a new long term contract or if the Panthers are not in that position, the Cats would put him on the market.
Jaybo would be traded prior to the Panthers agreeing to Arbitration...
Jaybo would be traded prior to the Panthers agreeing to Arbitration...
Jaybo would hold all the cards though. He would refuse to negotiate a new contract if not traded to the team of his choice, thus cutting down his value, and if still traded would play the one year with his new team, if not one of his choice, become an UFA and be free to choose the team of his choice. Like I said, it is not in Bouw's best interest to sign longer than a one year contract at this time.
From fans perspective what do you want to see more.
a) J Bo signed to a long term (5-8 years) contract worth around 6.5-7 million per year
b) An offer sheet and four 1st rounders in compensation
c) A trade where you land a #1 dman, young but still a veteran and a couple impact roster players
Im an Edmonton fan and it's no secret we want to do a Pitkanen+ for J Bo but it's not going to happen unless FLA wants it. In Edmonton we have not been good since the 06 run and in Edmonton you can't go into multi year stretches with no playoffs because you get fired and the city goes nuts. So if I was in the position you were in I would first want to sign J Bo to a long contract but if not I would want to bring in a replacement and then some extras.
From fans perspective what do you want to see more.
a) J Bo signed to a long term (5-8 years) contract worth around 6.5-7 million per year
b) An offer sheet and four 1st rounders in compensation
c) A trade where you land a #1 dman, young but still a veteran and a couple impact roster players
Im an Edmonton fan and it's no secret we want to do a Pitkanen+ for J Bo but it's not going to happen unless FLA wants it. In Edmonton we have not been good since the 06 run and in Edmonton you can't go into multi year stretches with no playoffs because you get fired and the city goes nuts. So if I was in the position you were in I would first want to sign J Bo to a long contract but if not I would want to bring in a replacement and then some extras.
Thoughts?
The Panthers aren't interested in Pitkanen. If we trade Bouw, we need a good #1 and Joni is not that.
Last edited by Acadmus: 05-01-2008 at 03:07 PM.
Reason: the post was on topic and got rid of the original trade proposal - the link to the other thread isn't necessary
From fans perspective what do you want to see more.
a) J Bo signed to a long term (5-8 years) contract worth around 6.5-7 million per year
b) An offer sheet and four 1st rounders in compensation
c) A trade where you land a #1 dman, young but still a veteran and a couple impact roster players
Im an Edmonton fan and it's no secret we want to do a Pitkanen+ for J Bo but it's not going to happen unless FLA wants it. In Edmonton we have not been good since the 06 run and in Edmonton you can't go into multi year stretches with no playoffs because you get fired and the city goes nuts. So if I was in the position you were in I would first want to sign J Bo to a long contract but if not I would want to bring in a replacement and then some extras.
Thoughts?
I have said many times that edmonton is the logical trade partner but you would be crazy to think, unless keenan takes control of the team, that we would trade Bouw for Pitkannen. In any kind of trade for a potential norris trophy winner, you would have to start with Hemsky, maybe Pitkannen, but probably Gilbert instead, and Stoll. you would get Bouw and two other less impact players. If you want a number one d man you can't expect not to give up Hemsky. That's like us asking for Hemsky and offering Olesz, who is right now a solid third or second line player but not Hemsky.
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