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Flyers have more depth - plain and simple

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Old
05-01-2008, 10:13 AM
  #26
Bullsmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
Briere, Knuble , Gagne ( injured ) , Richards, Carter

I think this shoule expalin your reply

Umberger and Hartnell are not top 4 wingers , or forwards for that matter.
Um, Briere, Richards are Carter are centers, as you note Gagne is injured.

So who are the four wingers who play ahead of Hartnell and Umberger?

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05-01-2008, 10:15 AM
  #27
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The problem is we are dressing 6 similar type players in our bottom six. Latendresse, Smoke, Kostop, Begin, Lapierre and Streit are not great offensively (except Streit even though he's sucked at everything in the playoffs) so we only have our top 2 lines to chip in offensively.

So when our top 2 lines get shut down and can't score we don't have guys we can rely on in our bottom 6 to chip in, that is why Carbo should be dressing Grabovski to help create offensive chances on the bottom line.

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05-01-2008, 10:15 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Montreal has depth and offense as well, only problem is that Carbo isn't willing to use them or dress them in Ryder and Grabovski. People say Carbo isn't being out coached, when it comes to utilizing players and line matching...he is.
The Habs don't need more dipsy doodling like Grabovsky, they need garbage goals to get to Biron's horseshoe...Ryder I think you try him next game for S.Kost.

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05-01-2008, 10:19 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
In the playoffs, you need those gritty snipers who doesn't fear to pay the price to score the ugly goal. That strange concept was once again proven yesterday when our 2 goals were scored while being in front of the net...
You mean Ryder?

I totally agree, and this is why I believe in the chances of Pacioretty to make the team as soon as next year. We desperaly need more players willing to pay the price, and less perimeter players. It is so frustrating to see our guys just cycling the puck and shooting from the point when noone is even screening the goalie or is standing in the slot. The only players willing to do that (and this is sporadically) are Andrei Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Koivu (on the PP), and it pretty much ends there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
I disagree on the depth issue. On the centre issue, Koivu has been the series best most courageous and most effective player not sure why that position is being centred out.

Montreal is winning in every part of the rink except in front of the net. Gainey and Carbonneau need to take the Lions of Winter to the Land of Oz and get them some courage.

Letting the goalie see the puck and doing flamingo impressions is making Biron look spectacular.
Great post, totally agree here. It pisses me off how easy Biron's job is right now. His defence and our offence are making him look like Martin Brodeur, while you clearly see that he can't control his rebounds for ****.

At this point, I'd definately demote higgins and put latendresse on the first instead, or reunite the old kovalev line, and put lats with koivu. At least Carbo can get Latendresse to ****ing park his ass in front of the net at all time.

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05-01-2008, 10:23 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
The problem is we are dressing 6 similar type players in our bottom six. Latendresse, Smoke, Kostop, Begin, Lapierre and Streit are not great offensively (except Streit even though he's sucked at everything in the playoffs) so we only have our top 2 lines to chip in offensively.

So when our top 2 lines get shut down and can't score we don't have guys we can rely on in our bottom 6 to chip in, that is why Carbo should be dressing Grabovski to help create offensive chances on the bottom line.
Given his ice time, Lats offensive stats are very impressive, give him top 6 ice time and a good center and he scores 30.

Begin Smo and Kotso are not offensive wizzards, but they have been excellent contributors these playoffs.

Lapierre looks much better since Dandenault has been out and Lats in. Streit is very gifted but he seems to be playing hurt.

The 3rd and 4th line have done more than their share, it's the top 6 forwards apart from Koivu that need to pick it up 5 on 5 and on the PP. The big issue with scoring goals is they are trying too many facy plays and passing up good shots. Get more quick release shots and shots with no warning, sometimes from a bad angle.

I'm sure the first bad angle goal Biron gives up, he'll go back to being Mr.Average

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05-01-2008, 10:25 AM
  #31
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Eatthatquestion View Post
If you had watch the last games, you wouldn't say that the Flyers outplayed us.

It's been 4 years since the lockout, you can't talk about new NHL.

Of course, Komiserik, Hammerlick and O'Bryne are all small weak dwarfs...

If you knew what grit means, you wouldn't have included Sergei, Bouillon or even Higgins in your post.

I don't know why I answered this post since you're clearly a bitter fan who's only trying to stir ****.

I answered this post because I agree with the poster and, I call it the way I see it.
Goaltending has played a part in thi series, but the Habs sakters are not getting the joob done! Biron has stopped a lot of shots, but how many difficult shots? Habs don't have the grit to go hard to the net!


And Sir, I suggest you learn how to read!
I did not state or imply that Komi, Hammer or O'Bryne were not big enough (fact is I didn't mention their names in my post -- did I?)!

I have not seen much "grit" from Sergei, Bouillon or Higgins and if they have shown grit -- the Flyers players have show more -- much more.

Fact is: where it has counted most in this series, -- in the corners, and in front of the 2 nets, the Flyers have indeed outplayed the Habs badly, which is why the Habs have fallen behind by 2 or more goals in each game of this series!

Truth is: Habs players have lost the physical battles and have been, for the most part, easily taken off the puck the whole series.

If this series was about skating speed Habs would be leading this series!
Clearly, they are not!

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Old
05-01-2008, 10:27 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
At this point, I'd definately demote higgins and put latendresse on the first instead, or reunite the old kovalev line, and put lats with koivu. At least Carbo can get Latendresse to ****ing park his ass in front of the net at all time.
I totally agree. Latendresse always plays well with Koivu.

Andrei - Plekanec - Kovalev
Latendresse - Koivu - Sergei
Higgins - Grabovski - Streit
Begin - Smolinski - Kostopoulus

The Kovalev line needs to be reunited, they were great ALL year long.

The second line just get Latendresse to park his ass in front of the net and just get the puck to the net.

Insert Grabovski as we could have a 3rd offensive line and there is no way Philly's D can keep up with Higgins/Grabs speed.

Reunite our best line from the 1st series, still ****ing stunned why they were even broken up.

I would rather have Lapierre on the wing instead of Streit but supposedly we need Streit in the lineup so he can shoot the puck at players shinpads on the powerplay.

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Old
05-01-2008, 10:46 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post

Great post, totally agree here. It pisses me off how easy Biron's job is right now. His defence and our offence are making him look like Martin Brodeur, while you clearly see that he can't control his rebounds for ****.

At this point, I'd definately demote higgins and put latendresse on the first instead, or reunite the old kovalev line, and put lats with koivu. At least Carbo can get Latendresse to ****ing park his ass in front of the net at all time.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly what Carbo does. Kovalev's line was the number one all year , and collectively they've lost some mojo while split up. Koivu can play with just about anyone and Latendresse is one of the few receivers that Koivu will find willing to accept pain in front of the net.

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05-01-2008, 10:49 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly what Carbo does. Kovalev's line was the number one all year , and collectively they've lost some mojo while split up. Koivu can play with just about anyone and Latendresse is one of the few receivers that Koivu will find willing to accept pain in front of the net.
except for himself, lol.

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05-01-2008, 10:51 AM
  #35
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the flyers have a deep team of mid range players, make no mistake about it. the OP has a point.

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Old
05-01-2008, 10:57 AM
  #36
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The problem is the PP.
Everything else is irrelevant.

With a working PP this series would have been over already and the series against Boston would have ended in 5 games max.

Don't look further. PP is the reason why we finished 1st this season and the reason why we'll be eliminated in the 2nd round.

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Old
05-01-2008, 11:00 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
I answered this post because I agree with the poster and, I call it the way I see it.
Goaltending has played a part in thi series, but the Habs sakters are not getting the joob done! Biron has stopped a lot of shots, but how many difficult shots? Habs don't have the grit to go hard to the net!


And Sir, I suggest you learn how to read!
I did not state or imply that Komi, Hammer or O'Bryne were not big enough (fact is I didn't mention their names in my post -- did I?)!

I have not seen much "grit" from Sergei, Bouillon or Higgins and if they have shown grit -- the Flyers players have show more -- much more.

Fact is: where it has counted most in this series, -- in the corners, and in front of the 2 nets, the Flyers have indeed outplayed the Habs badly, which is why the Habs have fallen behind by 2 or more goals in each game of this series!

Truth is: Habs players have lost the physical battles and have been, for the most part, easily taken off the puck the whole series.

If this series was about skating speed Habs would be leading this series!
Clearly, they are not!
Why did you change the spelling of the names in the quoted post?

You can't say the Flyers outplayed the Habs badly, they were more opportunist. They just keep dumping the puck over and over, they generate almost no offence. We had puck possession for 2 third of the last game.

What you call Fact and Truth is your opinion and I don't agree with it. Flyers don't show grit, actually, it's the complete opposite. They show no intensity at all. Bruins played gritty and intense hockey, Flyers don't. I had respect for the Bruins and the way they played, Flyers play the most boring hockey I've seen in years. This is not the kind of hockey that will gather interest from new people, and this is sad.

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Old
05-01-2008, 11:26 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by CacaLauncher23 View Post
I don't know if those theories about grit and all matter. Could you say that the Penguins have gritty players? I'd say they look like the habs in many regards, with more offensive punch.

They haven't lost a single game so far.
Well first, their snipers are more talented than us. And then on the gritty front, yes they are way more gritty than our Habs. Who would you say are not gritty up front for them. Sykora? Would you say that Hossa is not gritty?

But the rest definately is....or at the very least are not afraid to take a hit to make a play.

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05-01-2008, 12:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
I totally agree. Latendresse always plays well with Koivu.

Andrei - Plekanec - Kovalev
Latendresse - Koivu - Sergei
Higgins - Grabovski - Streit
Begin - Smolinski - Kostopoulus

The Kovalev line needs to be reunited, they were great ALL year long.

The second line just get Latendresse to park his ass in front of the net and just get the puck to the net.

Insert Grabovski as we could have a 3rd offensive line and there is no way Philly's D can keep up with Higgins/Grabs speed.

Reunite our best line from the 1st series, still ****ing stunned why they were even broken up.

I would rather have Lapierre on the wing instead of Streit but supposedly we need Streit in the lineup so he can shoot the puck at players shinpads on the powerplay.
That's a pretty good lineup. I'd be still hesitant to leave Laps out as he brings speed, grit, good PK and can make an odd offensive play. But we do need Streit on the PP, even though he is a shadow of the player he was in the regular season, and Kosto can't be benched after the series he's had.

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05-01-2008, 12:31 PM
  #40
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just look at the flyers centermen

1)Briere
2)Carter
3)Richards.

any team would kill to have 3 guys of that caliber at center.

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05-01-2008, 12:36 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Black Label View Post
They don't have more depth but they have more sandpaper and players willing to pay the price than us and that counts in the playoffs.

We are a carbon copy of the 05-07 Sabres. Fast , young and talented but ultimately missing a few elements to win it all.
Best post in the thread, I agree 100%. You could also say we are like the those Senators teams that lost 4 straight playoff series to Toronto, because of a lack of grit.

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05-01-2008, 12:38 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Um, Briere, Richards are Carter are centers, as you note Gagne is injured.

So who are the four wingers who play ahead of Hartnell and Umberger?
Bullsmith , buddy , before you go off in a trance here ,

the issue is simple a Hartnell , Umberger, Upshall, on most very good teams are not top 6 forwards , they are all 20 goal type players , nice players , but not players on your top 2 lines .

Its like Obyrne with us , if you team him up with Hamrlik on a top pairing , is he really
a top 3 dman ? Not a chance at this point .

Phillys role players are better than ours , for Umberger to dominate in this series and he is not one of their top players is a huge boost . I dont see Latendresse , Smoke, or Lapierre doing what he is doing , and keep in mind Gagne has missed most of the season , and Knuble has missed playoff time. Take Plekanek away this whole playoff
and lose one of the Kosty boys , and we dont have the depth they have right now.

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Old
05-01-2008, 12:43 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Magic33 View Post
just look at the flyers centermen

1)Briere
2)Carter
3)Richards.

any team would kill to have 3 guys of that caliber at center.
That's the only area they are strong. In general their goaltending is average. Their defense is either old or mediocre, after Timmonen and Coburn it's not pretty. On the wings they are pretty good but they don't have a Kovy.

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Old
05-01-2008, 12:45 PM
  #44
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Bullsmith , buddy , before you go off in a trance here ,

the issue is simple a Hartnell , Umberger, Upshall, on most very good teams are not top 6 forwards , they are all 20 goal type players , nice players , but not players on your top 2 lines .

Its like Obyrne with us , if you team him up with Hamrlik on a top pairing , is he really
a top 3 dman ? Not a chance at this point .

Phillys role players are better than ours , for Umberger to dominate in this series and he is not one of their top players is a huge boost . I dont see Latendresse , Smoke, or Lapierre doing what he is doing , and keep in mind Gagne has missed most of the season , and Knuble has missed playoff time. Take Plekanek away this whole playoff
and lose one of the Kosty boys , and we dont have the depth they have right now.
I don't think Phillie has a guy of Ryder's calibre in the stands each night...or O'byrne for that matter.

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05-01-2008, 01:12 PM
  #45
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Eatthatquestion View Post
Why did you change the spelling of the names in the quoted post?

You can't say the Flyers outplayed the Habs badly, they were more opportunist. They just keep dumping the puck over and over, they generate almost no offence. We had puck possession for 2 third of the last game.

What you call Fact and Truth is your opinion and I don't agree with it. Flyers don't show grit, actually, it's the complete opposite. They show no intensity at all. Bruins played gritty and intense hockey, Flyers don't. I had respect for the Bruins and the way they played, Flyers play the most boring hockey I've seen in years. This is not the kind of hockey that will gather interest from new people, and this is sad.

SIR,

Your are entitled to your opinion and I do respect your opinion - even if I do not agree with it.

What I consider as "fact" would be substantiated by the (actual) fact that the Flyers are leading the series 3 victories to 1 loss.

Flyers may play boring hockey -- but their game plan and the execution of their game plan is much more effective than Habs game plan and execution of their game plan!

Ultimately, the record books will only tell who wins the series, not how boring or entertaining the victories were (or were not).


Last edited by Melvin Udall: 05-01-2008 at 01:48 PM.
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Old
05-01-2008, 02:10 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geeman View Post
the issue is simple a Hartnell , Umberger, Upshall, on most very good teams are not top 6 forwards , they are all 20 goal type players , nice players , but not players on your top 2 lines
the Flyers top 3 lines each have two 28 goal+ scorers on it:
Prospal-Briere
Richards-Lupul(was on pace)
Carter-Knuble

So Hartnell/Umberger/Upshall are the complimentary players for these lines, They don't anchor the lines, they just do their job and help out their linemates.

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05-01-2008, 02:54 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
the Flyers top 3 lines each have two 28 goal+ scorers on it:
Prospal-Briere
Richards-Lupul(was on pace)
Carter-Knuble

So Hartnell/Umberger/Upshall are the complimentary players for these lines, They don't anchor the lines, they just do their job and help out their linemates.
Some of us Hab fans may also be overlooking the fact that Flyers best scorer
Simone Gagne is not playing!

This series may already be over if he were playing!

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05-01-2008, 03:10 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
Some of us Hab fans may also be overlooking the fact that Flyers best scorer
Simone Gagne is not playing!

This series may already be over if he were playing!
That's completely hypothetical.

If you want to play that game, if Gagne was there, one could just as easily argue that the Flyers would have finished at a different final position in the standings and we would not be playing them at all in the 2nd round.

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05-01-2008, 03:13 PM
  #49
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That's completely hypothetical.

If you want to play that game, if Gagne was there, one could just as easily argue that the Flyers would have finished at a different final position in the standings and we would not be playing them at all in the 2nd round.
One could also say that Umberger would be on a different line and wouldn't have 6 goals.

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05-01-2008, 03:28 PM
  #50
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Great post, totally agree here. It pisses me off how easy Biron's job is right now. His defence and our offence are making him look like Martin Brodeur, while you clearly see that he can't control his rebounds for ****.
u do realize this is more of a knock against the habs then the flyers. Our d is not great but is playing over their head right now (read: better than they should be) The habs need to get to said rebounds and put them in..they arent doing that

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