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Flyers have more depth - plain and simple

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Old
05-01-2008, 04:58 PM
  #51
Melvin Udall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
That's completely hypothetical.

If you want to play that game, if Gagne was there, one could just as easily argue that the Flyers would have finished at a different final position in the standings and we would not be playing them at all in the 2nd round.

You are right (it is completely hypothetical) and I considered that had Gagne been healthy all season, the Flyers might have won the Esatern Division and played a team other than the Habs!

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05-01-2008, 05:08 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
You are right (it is completely hypothetical) and I considered that had Gagne been healthy all season, the Flyers might have won the Esatern Division and played a team other than the Habs!
Then again, he's injured. That's not hypothetical.

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05-01-2008, 05:13 PM
  #53
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The Flyers are doing it without Gagné. What rabbit can Carbonneau pull out of his hat?

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05-01-2008, 05:20 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Corey View Post
The Flyers are doing it without Gagné. What rabbit can Carbonneau pull out of his hat?
Honestly, they have to start playing like the team that finished 1st in the East.

The futility of their efforts the last few days seems to have gotten to them - not surprising given the youth of the team but the veterans have to lead the way.

The Flyers are beatable - the Habs have been controlling the play for the last 3 games.

The PP has to produce. The goal scorers have to take advantage of their opportunities. Some players have to be willing to pay the price to stand in front of Biron. The goaltending has to be solid once again. Above all, the players have to want the puck more than the Flyers do.

What Carbonneau can do is wear the tie.

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05-01-2008, 07:21 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
That's the only area they are strong. In general their goaltending is average. Their defense is either old or mediocre, after Timmonen and Coburn it's not pretty. On the wings they are pretty good but they don't have a Kovy.
they do but he is injured right now. Gagne is no doubt an elite winger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
That's completely hypothetical.

If you want to play that game, if Gagne was there, one could just as easily argue that the Flyers would have finished at a different final position in the standings and we would not be playing them at all in the 2nd round.
good point. the two teams would probably be playing in the final 4 instead of the semifinals.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 05-01-2008 at 07:50 PM.
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05-02-2008, 07:07 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
One could also say that Umberger would be on a different line and wouldn't have 6 goals.
No Umberger would be the same, but Prospal wouldnt have been aquired. Umberger has already played on 2 lines this series anyway.
You'd see:

Gagne-Briere-Hartnell
Et Cetera.

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05-02-2008, 07:42 AM
  #57
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Anybody else notice Tender Willie racing The Turtle Hatcher for the puck? I think Lats actually beat him to it. I felt all dirty just watching it. Last time I saw something that deeply wrong two girls were sharing a cup. Bring in Grabbo. I have a big nice TV and want to see guys who can skate.

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05-02-2008, 07:51 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Anybody else notice Tender Willie racing The Turtle Hatcher for the puck? I think Lats actually beat him to it. I felt all dirty just watching it. Last time I saw something that deeply wrong two girls were sharing a cup. Bring in Grabbo. I have a big nice TV and want to see guys who can skate.
Yeah I remember that play. Jones always ends up having to cut across for hatcher and leaves the other side open.

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05-02-2008, 08:06 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by GlueleG View Post
Well you figure:

Prospal - Hartnell
Lupul - Knuble
Upshall - Umberger
Thoresen - Kapanen

I'd say 3 of the 4 that geeman named can be considered depth wingers.
...and they're missing Simon Gagné. So yes, they're depth players, and better that Habs' own. I agree with Geeman.

That's why I beleive Gainey may make at least one unpopular move this summer, maybe trading some of our...let's say "flashy" talent, to add grit that can score at least 15 goals. Lats can score something between 15-30 goals, but he's certainly not gritty.

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05-02-2008, 08:28 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Anybody else notice Tender Willie racing The Turtle Hatcher for the puck? I think Lats actually beat him to it. I felt all dirty just watching it. Last time I saw something that deeply wrong two girls were sharing a cup. Bring in Grabbo. I have a big nice TV and want to see guys who can skate.
Wow. Latendresse has played very well the last couple games. He is one of our few forwards that goes to the net. You want to take him out for Grabovski? We have enough guys that are playing a perimeter game at this point, no need to add another one.

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05-02-2008, 08:30 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
The Flyers are beatable - the Habs have been controlling the play for the last 3 games.
No, the Habs have been going down 2-0 and the Flyers are then completely giving up on the forecheck, leaving the game to the PK and Biron. They looked the same way when they took leads against Washington, they looked the same way in the regular season-John Stevens will not press with a 2 goal lead. Sometimes it fails, sometimes it looks scary but works, like it has this series. You guys tied the game Wednesday, the Flyers turned around and got some attack time in, the Habs took a stupid penalty and they capitalized. Outplaying? No, they're outworking, because they have to when they're constantly behind.

As fo depth, the Flyers depth is astounding. The Habs had 4 guys with 20+ goals, the Flyers had 7 (if you include Prospal), and that's with a guaraneed 35+ guy like Gags out for the year. Umberger had 13 goals and 37 assists for 50 points, he's a very capable player. And with the way the Flyers have been drafting wings (Downie, Giroux, James Van Riemsdyk) they should be pretty well set in a few years.


Last edited by COMCASTMONEY: 05-02-2008 at 08:37 AM.
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Old
05-02-2008, 08:43 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
No, the Habs have been going down 2-0 and the Flyers are then completely giving up on the forecheck, leaving the game to the PK and Biron. They looked the same way when they took leads against Washington, they looked the same way in the regular season-John Stevens will not press with a 2 goal lead. Sometimes it fails, sometimes it looks scary but works, like it has this series.
You are actually trying to argue that the Flyers are "unbeatable"?????

You Flyers fans are really something...

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05-02-2008, 09:00 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
You are actually trying to argue that the Flyers are "unbeatable"?????

You Flyers fans are really something...
No, I'm arguing the "Habs have been outplaying them." They're completely beatable, but the reason you perceive the Habs as outplaying them is not why they're beatable. Get the first goal on them. Hell, get the first two, you'll see. The Flyers haven't had to "outplay" them if they've had constant two goal leads.

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05-02-2008, 09:11 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
No, I'm arguing the "Habs have been outplaying them." They're completely beatable, but the reason you perceive the Habs as outplaying them is not why they're beatable. Get the first goal on them. Hell, get the first two, you'll see.
But it's not like the Flyers were pressing even before they had the 2 goal leads. They've hardly been able to control the play at all except for a few shifts here and there - even when the games were 0-0. And they've been giving a hell of a lot of scoring chances during that time - including the 1st periods of the last 2 games.

It's a strategy, but it seems more like "playing with fire" to me. Hey, it's been working, but will it continue? The victories have all been squeaked in. You can't expect to give that many opportunities to an offensively gifted team like the Habs and think it will always work.

The reason for their success so far: Biron. Kudos to him, he's been phenomenal.

But if he doesn't keep it up, your guys will look the same as they did during the regular season against the Habs.

The biggest thing going against the Habs right now in my opinion is their youth and inexperience - but they've continuously stepped up and won games after being counted out all season. The playoffs are another thing altogether though.

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05-02-2008, 09:22 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
No, the Habs have been going down 2-0 and the Flyers are then completely giving up on the forecheck, leaving the game to the PK and Biron. They looked the same way when they took leads against Washington, they looked the same way in the regular season-John Stevens will not press with a 2 goal lead. Sometimes it fails, sometimes it looks scary but works, like it has this series. You guys tied the game Wednesday, the Flyers turned around and got some attack time in, the Habs took a stupid penalty and they capitalized. Outplaying? No, they're outworking, because they have to when they're constantly behind.

As fo depth, the Flyers depth is astounding. The Habs had 4 guys with 20+ goals, the Flyers had 7 (if you include Prospal), and that's with a guaraneed 35+ guy like Gags out for the year. Umberger had 13 goals and 37 assists for 50 points, he's a very capable player. And with the way the Flyers have been drafting wings (Downie, Giroux, James Van Riemsdyk) they should be pretty well set in a few years.
Flyers give up on the forecheck as soon as the puck is dropped at the beginning of the first period...

As for the depth, the Habs had 7 players with 50 points or more and it's not like the Flyers could afford to sit a player like Ryder.

Watch for the Habs to take the lead next game, Flyers won't even try to generate more offence. Actually, I believe that for the next 3 games, they'll just wait hoping to get the first goal and then try to hang out to it like their lives depend on it. And they'll fail.

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05-02-2008, 09:22 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
No, I'm arguing the "Habs have been outplaying them." They're completely beatable, but the reason you perceive the Habs as outplaying them is not why they're beatable. Get the first goal on them. Hell, get the first two, you'll see. The Flyers haven't had to "outplay" them if they've had constant two goal leads.
Very true...every team is better with the lead, and the Habs haven't had the lead yet. The Habs have to capitalize on their good first periods like they did vs the Bruins, and this will be a series again...Kudos to Biron and the Flyers for their 3-1 lead.

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05-02-2008, 09:26 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Very true...every team is better with the lead, and the Habs haven't had the lead yet. The Habs have to capitalize on their good first periods like they did vs the Bruins, and this will be a series again...Kudos to Biron and the Flyers for their 3-1 lead.
I think your last sentence should read : Kudos to Biron for the Flyers 3-1 lead.

And congrats on your fourth thousand post.

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05-02-2008, 09:38 AM
  #68
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Bullsmith , buddy , before you go off in a trance here ,

the issue is simple a Hartnell , Umberger, Upshall, on most very good teams are not top 6 forwards , they are all 20 goal type players , nice players , but not players on your top 2 lines .

Its like Obyrne with us , if you team him up with Hamrlik on a top pairing , is he really
a top 3 dman ? Not a chance at this point .

Phillys role players are better than ours , for Umberger to dominate in this series and he is not one of their top players is a huge boost . I dont see Latendresse , Smoke, or Lapierre doing what he is doing , and keep in mind Gagne has missed most of the season , and Knuble has missed playoff time. Take Plekanek away this whole playoff
and lose one of the Kosty boys , and we dont have the depth they have right now.
Umberger is extremely lucky this serie. He hadn't done crap in the last serie. Most of his goals shouldn't even have gone in, they were gifts from our goalies.
Our line of Kosto-Smokes-Begin was our most effective. They were a huge part of why we won vs Boston, and if I remember correctly, Kosto is the one that scored in game1 vs Philly. I really hope Carbo reunites them, i think it was a very bad mistake to break them up.

Philly doesn't have more depth, thats ridiculous. And if they have more depth, they're not really doing a good job proving it, seeing as we dominate them.

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05-02-2008, 10:00 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Corey View Post
The Flyers are doing it without Gagné. What rabbit can Carbonneau pull out of his hat?
Ehh.. I would love Gagne instead of Thoresen..

That would not solve our speed on d-nce but Gagne would help.

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05-02-2008, 10:11 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Eatthatquestion View Post
As for the depth, the Habs had 7 players with 50 points or more and it's not like the Flyers could afford to sit a player like Ryder.
It's not like the habs would have done as well with a player like Gagne injured. I'm a huge Ryder fan, but he has sucked all year, and I think he's been going through some serious off ice issues.

We still had 5 with 50+ points, Lupul with 46 pts in 56 games and Timonen/Hartnell in the 40s. We've also had 11 of our top 12 forwards score in the playoffs so far.

I'm in no way saying MTl has no depth, simply that both teams are very deep offensive teams.


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05-02-2008, 10:18 AM
  #71
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It's not like the habs would have done as well with a player like Gagne injured. I'm a huge Ryder fan, but he has sucked all year, and I think he's been going through some serious off ice issues.

We still had 5 with 50+ points, Lupul with 46 pts in 56 games and Timonen/Hartnell in the 40s.
Yeah, I know. But we'll never know what would have happened if Gagné was there, of if Ryder played.

And it's actually 6 players, if you include Prospal. I just wanted to show that Flyers depth isn't as astounding compared to the Habs. We have depth, we just couldn't get the bounce. Until now...

Edit : And I know the Flyers have offensive potential, but they doesn't play like an offensive team and this is frustrating to watch them wait and dump the puck time after time.

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05-02-2008, 11:31 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Eatthatquestion View Post
Edit : And I know the Flyers have offensive potential, but they doesn't play like an offensive team and this is frustrating to watch them wait and dump the puck time after time.
the Flyers can play like an offensive team at times. they scored 8 on Vancouver and Pittsburgh earlier this year. and just last series scored 6 on Washington in a game. they certainly have the ability to turn it up a notch when they need to.

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05-02-2008, 11:40 AM
  #73
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Umberger is extremely lucky this serie. He hadn't done crap in the last serie. Most of his goals shouldn't even have gone in, they were gifts from our goalies.
Our line of Kosto-Smokes-Begin was our most effective. They were a huge part of why we won vs Boston, and if I remember correctly, Kosto is the one that scored in game1 vs Philly. I really hope Carbo reunites them, i think it was a very bad mistake to break them up.

Philly doesn't have more depth, thats ridiculous. And if they have more depth, they're not really doing a good job proving it, seeing as we dominate them.
call it lucky or not , where is our Umberger ?

I dont see Lapierre with 6 goals in the playoffs .

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05-02-2008, 11:57 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Montreal has depth and offense as well, only problem is that Carbo isn't willing to use them or dress them in Ryder and Grabovski. People say Carbo isn't being out coached, when it comes to utilizing players and line matching...he is.

Those aren't depth players. 1 has disappeared and the other doesn't show enough of what everyone thinks he is.

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05-02-2008, 12:13 PM
  #75
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if simon gagne was healthy habs will be in more trouble.

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