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Flyers have more depth - plain and simple

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Old
05-02-2008, 01:24 PM
  #76
shortcat1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlueleG View Post
Well you figure:

Prospal - Hartnell
Lupul - Knuble
Upshall - Umberger
Thoresen - Kapanen

I'd say 3 of the 4 that geeman named can be considered depth wingers.
Hartnell is considered a power forward
Upshall, a 3rd line winger
Umberger, a top-six forward
& Kapanen, a 3rd-line winger

On the whole, those players are playing above themselves. For their sake, I'm glad... for ours... not really...

By the way,
Prospal is a top-six forward
Lupul, a top-six winger
Knuble, a top-six forward.
& Thoresen is rated a 4th liner

Again, the Philadelphia players are 'over-achieving' compared to what they usually do... which is a qualilty needed for playoff performance.

Are the Ducks an inferior team? Are the Canadiens an inferior team? Are the Rangers an inferior team? Are the Sharks an inferior team? I don't think so but those teams are 'under-achieving' at the moment and are paying or have payed for their quality of play.

By the way, these player ratings are found at this site:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/

(This info used to be available on TSN.ca but they don't have this info in their player pages anymore)

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Old
05-02-2008, 02:31 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newgodz View Post
if simon gagne was healthy habs will be in more trouble.
And if Jesus wasn't crucified then we wouldn't have Catholics.

Really basing arguments on "ifs" really doesn't do much as there is evidence and lots of it to show otherwise.

Habs have been unlucky, that is all. They have out played, out shot, out chanced the Flyers. This series like i mention after Game #2 is exactly like a soccer match where 1 team can completely dominate yet lose.

I expect the Price of robbery will be shown on Saturday and Monday, and on Wednesday, full out goal fest.

Philly is not a talented team. The only team that comes remotely close to matching the Pens speed for speed in the entire league is Montreal. If the Habs lose, Philly are in big trouble against the Pens.

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05-02-2008, 02:57 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
And if Jesus wasn't crucified then we wouldn't have Catholics.

Really basing arguments on "ifs" really doesn't do much as there is evidence and lots of it to show otherwise.

Habs have been unlucky, that is all. They have out played, out shot, out chanced the Flyers. This series like i mention after Game #2 is exactly like a soccer match where 1 team can completely dominate yet lose.

I expect the Price of robbery will be shown on Saturday and Monday, and on Wednesday, full out goal fest.

Philly is not a talented team. The only team that comes remotely close to matching the Pens speed for speed in the entire league is Montreal. If the Habs lose, Philly are in big trouble against the Pens.
Philly is not a talented team? Thats a hell of a thing to say.

We are not as good as Montreal on D but every other aspect of our game is just as good or very comparable.

Regular season stats:
Right behind you on PP
Better PK
right behind you in GF
not too far away from your talented team in GA

Not to mention this team has been together for only one year. If you had our injuries would you make playoffs? Montreal had a relatively healthy season compare to last year. Do not forget about Atlantic division.

As far as Pens. We beat Pens with healthy Crosby 4 times this year. That does not mean anything in playoffs but just shows what you know.

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Old
05-02-2008, 03:01 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Philly is not a talented team? Thats a hell of a thing to say.

We are not as good as Montreal on D but every other aspect of our game is just as good or very comparable.

Regular season stats:
Right behind you on PP
Better PK
right behind you in GF
not too far away from your talented team in GA

Not to mention this team has been together for only one year. If you had our injuries would you make playoffs? Montreal had a relatively healthy season compare to last year. Do not forget about Atlantic division.
Take someone who have not seen them play this season, make him watch the games from this series. There is no way he'll think the Flyers are talented, except for their goaltender.

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05-02-2008, 03:05 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Eatthatquestion View Post
Take someone who have not seen them play this season, make him watch the games from this series. There is no way he'll think the Flyers are talented, except for their goaltender.
You have a point but fan can at least check some espn site and he would find 7 20 goal scorers before posting garbage.

Flyers do not look very good against Habs. No question about it. O well.. We'll see whats is going to happen.

If we lose or if we win we better improve out D next year. No question about it.

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05-02-2008, 03:12 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eatthatquestion View Post
Take someone who have not seen them play this season, make him watch the games from this series. There is no way he'll think the Flyers are talented, except for their goaltender.
Briere isn't talented? Richards isn't talented? Coburn? Timonen? Carter? How are they not talented, they're an NHL team.

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05-02-2008, 03:27 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
Briere isn't talented? Richards isn't talented? Coburn? Timonen? Carter? How are they not talented, they're an NHL team.
I never said they we're not, I said that they don't show it. How much time did they spent in our zone showing their talent? Not much...

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05-02-2008, 03:36 PM
  #83
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Flyers are only more lucky and more opportunist than the Habs, thats all.

We outplayed them in the last 3 games but still lost. Its nothing about their best player are better than ours or they have more depth.

The only reasons are luck and opportunist, plain and simple.

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05-02-2008, 03:39 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eatthatquestion View Post
I think your last sentence should read : Kudos to Biron for the Flyers 3-1 lead.

And congrats on your fourth thousand post.
thanks, didn't even realize I was at 4000...anyhow, I think if the Habs pull one out saturday, there will be a game 7!

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05-02-2008, 03:39 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
No Umberger would be the same, but Prospal wouldnt have been aquired. Umberger has already played on 2 lines this series anyway.
You'd see:

Gagne-Briere-Hartnell
Et Cetera.
Thats possible... but my point was line tinkering always takes place... .who knows what different line combos Stevens would have come up with from the time gagne got hurt until now and who knows how they would have worked.... We could see a different lineup today and umberger might not be having the success he's having.... He might be same, better, or worse.... We really don't know, and there is no way of knowing.

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05-02-2008, 04:03 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Montreal has depth and offense as well, only problem is that Carbo isn't willing to use them or dress them in Ryder and Grabovski. People say Carbo isn't being out coached, when it comes to utilizing players and line matching...he is.
Grabovski???? Are you freakin' kidding me??????? You think Plekanec has been tossed around....this guy would spend 90% of his ice-time peeling himself off the ice or the boards. Not to harp on you...but every thread I read I'm mystified by these comments. I ask again, have you watched these guys play? Grabovski???? Ryder????? 2 of our most useless players.

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05-02-2008, 05:35 PM
  #87
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i disagree...the only reason philly are winning this series is because biron has been unreal. sometimes u just run into a hot goalie which has been in the case so far which is proven by the shots on goal/ chances to score. it's not that philly are a better team or that they have more depth but if you have a good goalie who gets hot at the right time you'll be in good shape for the playoffs. look at montreals series they won as an eighth seed against boston who were the first seed. it's not that montreal had better players or more depth but just that theodore stole it for the habs, especially in 2002. its too bad theo fell off the map.

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Old
05-02-2008, 06:01 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Flyers are only more lucky and more opportunist than the Habs, thats all.

We outplayed them in the last 3 games but still lost. Its nothing about their best player are better than ours or they have more depth.

The only reasons are luck and opportunist, plain and simple.
  • They "outplayed" Habs in goals for.
  • They "outplayed Habs in goals against.
  • (I could stop here since it's all it takes)
  • They "outplayed" habs in PP.
  • They "outplayed" habs in PK.
  • They "outplayed" habs in goaltending.
  • They "outplayed" habs in opportunism (which is a part of the game).
  • They "outplayed" habs in "quality shots on goal" (not scoring chances)

That's way enough reasons to win a series.

In fact, the only areas where the habs "outplayed" the Flyers, I would say, are:
  • "territorry advantage" (which is not so important to win games like every Jacques Lemaire teams showed over the years.)
  • "Scoring chances" (which means noting since a "chance" will never be more than a "chance", unless you actually score.)

I'm a habs fan and I want them to win, but I simply don't agree that the Flyers played so poorly. I think they played good playoffs games, keeping the shots from the outside, and clearing the rebounds (since game 2), and scoring on Habs' mistakes. Habs won plenty of those type of games in 86 and 93 (not saying the Flyers will do the same).

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Old
05-02-2008, 06:12 PM
  #89
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Hmmm. If the Flyers have so much depth, why are they relying so heavily on Biron to keep them in the game. And why don't these depth guys rack up more shots on net, or create more scoring chances.

The series is 3 to 1 for several reasons, but I don't believe Philly depth is one of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
  • They "outplayed" Habs in goals for.
  • They "outplayed Habs in goals against.
  • (I could stop here since it's all it takes)
  • They "outplayed" habs in PP.
  • They "outplayed" habs in PK.
  • They "outplayed" habs in goaltending.
  • They "outplayed" habs in opportunism (which is a part of the game).
  • They "outplayed" habs in "quality shots on goal" (not scoring chances)

That's way enough reasons to win a series.

In fact, the only areas where the habs "outplayed" the Flyers, I would say, are:
  • "territorry advantage" (which is not so important to win games like every Jacques Lemaire teams showed over the years.)
  • "Scoring chances" (which means noting since a "chance" will never be more than a "chance", unless you actually score.)

I'm a habs fan and I want them to win, but I simply don't agree that the Flyers played so poorly. I think they played good playoffs games, keeping the shots from the outside, and clearing the rebounds (since game 2), and scoring on Habs' mistakes. Habs won plenty of those type of games in 86 and 93 (not saying the Flyers will do the same).
Saying "outplayed" when you really mean "out resulted" really takes a lot of wind out of your odd shaped sails.

I really can't say I agree with most of the "outplayed" list except for in goal. That is self evident. Scoring chances and shots are clearly in Montreal's favour.

This series boils down to a goalie making the steal so far. That is not a knock since goalies are part of the team and if they can win for you, so be it. But from the goalie out there is no way Philly has outplayed Montreal

Quote:
Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Grabovski???? Are you freakin' kidding me??????? You think Plekanec has been tossed around....this guy would spend 90% of his ice-time peeling himself off the ice or the boards. Not to harp on you...but every thread I read I'm mystified by these comments. I ask again, have you watched these guys play? Grabovski???? Ryder????? 2 of our most useless players.
I agree. I watched Grabo in Hamilton and "pinball" is the term that comes to mind. I would not consider Grabo to be the best choice for playoff style hockey

If Ryder came close to playing the game he played before this year I'd be happy to see him in the line-up. For whatever reason he either refuses to shoot or has not been in position to shoot the puck. Unfortunate because I think he would have been a big help otherwise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
Briere isn't talented? Richards isn't talented? Coburn? Timonen? Carter? How are they not talented, they're an NHL team.
Philly clearly has some talented players.

My position on this though is that there is not more depth to Philly


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Old
05-02-2008, 07:16 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Habs have been unlucky, that is all. They have out played, out shot, out chanced the Flyers. This series like i mention after Game #2 is exactly like a soccer match where 1 team can completely dominate yet lose.

I expect the Price of robbery will be shown on Saturday and Monday, and on Wednesday, full out goal fest.

Philly is not a talented team. The only team that comes remotely close to matching the Pens speed for speed in the entire league is Montreal. If the Habs lose, Philly are in big trouble against the Pens.
that has to be one of the dumbest posts ever made on this board. how is a team that has highly skilled players like Briere, Prospal, Richards, Carter, Timonen, Coburn, Lupul, Hartnell, etc.. not talented?

and have trouble against the Pens? the same Pens team that threw their last game so they didn't have to play the Flyers in the first round? the same Pens team that lost 5 of 8 games against the Flyers this season? please. get a clue.

and some people really need to stop using this "we outshot them so we should automatically be winning" thing as an excuse. the Habs haven't had the lead in 4 games. there's a little more than just being "unlucky" going on there. just read some of the other threads here and you'll know why.

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05-02-2008, 08:30 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
that has to be one of the dumbest posts ever made on this board. how is a team that has highly skilled players like Briere, Prospal, Richards, Carter, Timonen, Coburn, Lupul, Hartnell, etc.. not talented?

and have trouble against the Pens? the same Pens team that threw their last game so they didn't have to play the Flyers in the first round? the same Pens team that lost 5 of 8 games against the Flyers this season? please. get a clue.

and some people really need to stop using this "we outshot them so we should automatically be winning" thing as an excuse. the Habs haven't had the lead in 4 games. there's a little more than just being "unlucky" going on there. just read some of the other threads here and you'll know why.
It isn't that the Habs just outshot them. That's the point. They carried most of the play and most of the good scoring chances, but still could not get a lead

Lucky is too convenient to say, but Philly has scored some pretty unremarkable goals

Biron is getting the job done . . . so far. That is pretty much the main reason they are up 3 to 1. No moaning because last time I checked goalies were part of the team. But Philly otherwise has hardly been impressive. If they have please elaborate

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05-02-2008, 09:22 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
It isn't that the Habs just outshot them. That's the point. They carried most of the play and most of the good scoring chances, but still could not get a lead

Lucky is too convenient to say, but Philly has scored some pretty unremarkable goals

Biron is getting the job done . . . so far. That is pretty much the main reason they are up 3 to 1. No moaning because last time I checked goalies were part of the team. But Philly otherwise has hardly been impressive. If they have please elaborate
you're right, and that's just it, goalies are part of the team. has Philly been impressive? yes, their goaltending and special teams have been fantastic. why do some people not take that into consideration when they say that Philly hasn't been good? in some aspects they have, in some they haven't. fact of the matter is, in this new NHL it's all about goaltending and special teams, you can't win without either of those things clicking, and the Flyers are winning both those battles right now.

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05-02-2008, 09:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
It isn't that the Habs just outshot them. That's the point. They carried most of the play and most of the good scoring chances, but still could not get a lead

Lucky is too convenient to say, but Philly has scored some pretty unremarkable goals

Biron is getting the job done . . . so far. That is pretty much the main reason they are up 3 to 1. No moaning because last time I checked goalies were part of the team. But Philly otherwise has hardly been impressive. If they have please elaborate
I think if this was a gunfight it'd make more sense to you folks.

"Yeah, well we had 'em pinned down and we fired a ton of shots..."
"Well, if all your shots graze or miss and all theirs connect you're in pretty bad shape, eh?"

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05-02-2008, 09:32 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
I think if this was a gunfight it'd make more sense to you folks.

"Yeah, well we had 'em pinned down and we fired a ton of shots..."
"Well, if all your shots graze or miss and all theirs connect you're in pretty bad shape, eh?"
Too bad you guys are the ones with the bullet proof vests

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05-02-2008, 09:34 PM
  #95
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Too bad you guys are the ones with the bullet proof posts
Correction.

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05-02-2008, 10:04 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Doctor Hate View Post
I think if this was a gunfight it'd make more sense to you folks.

"Yeah, well we had 'em pinned down and we fired a ton of shots..."
"Well, if all your shots graze or miss and all theirs connect you're in pretty bad shape, eh?"
i guess that makes Biron Doc Holliday and Briere Wyatt Earp then?

the following picture was taken outside the Wachovia Center 10 minutes before Game 4.



L-R: Daniel Briere, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Martin Biron

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05-02-2008, 10:07 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
i guess that makes Biron Doc Holliday and Briere Wyatt Earp then?

the following picture was taken outside the Wachovia Center 10 minutes before Game 4.



L-R: Daniel Briere, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Martin Biron

Oh its gonna be fun here on tuesday night.... after we come back on you guys.... I hope you stick around the habs forum for the festivities.

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