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Michael Ryder - Should he Play?? (merged)

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Old
05-02-2008, 02:28 PM
  #176
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I would play Ryder in saturdays game.

Not on the first or second line. Even though i hate him all season long, i believe he can still put the puck in the net.

He is not that slow, and he can hit if Carbo ask him to, he showed he can score in important game and can explode when you dont expect it. He was the reason why Habs came back last game, last year against the Leafs, he is again, the reason why the Habs had their magical comeback against the Rangers. He can score when nobody is expecting him too.

Make him play with Streit and Lapierre and if hes having a good game, try him with Koivu and Kovalev, i think hes more a finisher than Higgins.

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05-02-2008, 02:45 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Boris La Tigre View Post


...

seriously though, I'd give him a shot.
Jerry!

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05-02-2008, 02:54 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
This man deserves no respect from any Habs fans and he should be booed everytime he'll play against us in the Bell Center. If you wonder why this I have this sudden outburst of hatrance for Michael Ryder, it's because while the Habs were losing the 3rd and 4th game against Philly, he was all smiles on the phone with friends and throwing paper planes in the crowd instead of worrying for the team.

This guy doesn't give a **** about the Habs and I start to wonder since when he actually stopped caring about this team. Even if you are benched, you are still a member of this team and for a player who spent his whole professional career so far with us, this is a disgusting way to act.

Here's the link to the article where I took my facts from:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20.../1002/CPSPORTS
No other media type has said anything to this other than the idiot posting this article...it is a biase article and probably more fiction than fact.

And IF TRUE, I don't blame him...when has he been a part of this team and when has he last felt like a true player on this team if the coaches haven't spoken to him since January? Why show respect if they show none for him...if anything I have losy respect for Carbo and his staff and for poster like yourself.

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05-02-2008, 02:56 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
No other media type has said anything to this other than the idiot posting this article...it is a biase article and probably more fiction than fact.

And IF TRUE, I don't blame him...when has he been a part of this team and when has he last felt like a true player on this team if the coaches haven't spoken to him since January? Why show respect if they show none for him...if anything I have losy respect for Carbo and his staff and for poster like yourself.
How long should the Habs carry him on the roster while he's not producing at all ? I don't get your point of "we benched him so it's normal he acts unconcerned", he's still paid to do his job when he's asked to do it and not being concerned for the team is not acceptable since it's still his job to help this team.

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05-02-2008, 02:59 PM
  #180
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I seriously think you guys are blind...really. All I hear is "put Ryder in", "give him a chance"....blah, blah, blah. Poor Ryder .

Haven't you guys been watching this year? All the games Ryder played...he was easily amongst our 2-3 worst players on the ice for almost every game he's played. Easily! No contest. He's been given tons of chances and he's blown them.

And please, Re-Hab....quoting a bastion of credibility in Sergei Samsonov doesn't bolster your case. And oh yeah, Bob Gainey didn't trade Ryder just to torture him . If you want to continue talking fantasies and fables, be my guest. IMO, you're making a total fool out of yourself. Want to talk reality? Harken back to Ryder's "efforts" this season. Easily one of the worst players on the team....EASILY. But no, it's Carbos fault

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05-02-2008, 03:01 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
Well, I don't know about you but Ryder was our best scorer for years and now, while the team is having a tough time, he's in a pressbox throwing paper planes, I think that would piss off any Habs fans, or maybe you weren't following the Habs when Ryder scored 30 goals for us season after season.
Well if your silly enough to believe that Ryder's making paper airplanes is going to cost us the series then you fell for the printed trash that Gagnon supplied to you.

Do you think Koviu and the boys are looking up and saying "geez Ryder is up there talking to fans and making paper airplanes, no wonder we can't score!"

Your blaming the lack of scoring on Ryder???

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
How long should the Habs carry him on the roster while he's not producing at all ? I don't get your point of "we benched him so it's normal he acts unconcerned", he's still paid to do his job when he's asked to do it and not being concerned for the team is not acceptable since it's still his job to help this team.
Actually they don't get paid after game 82.


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Old
05-02-2008, 03:03 PM
  #182
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Ryder? who's that guy.....I can't remember him

I don't think we will see him with the habs again...maybe florida or atlanta (e5)


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05-02-2008, 03:06 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Well if your silly enough to believe that Ryder's making paper airplanes is going to cost us the series then you fell for the printed trash that Gagnon supplied to you.

Do you think Koviu and the boys are looking up and saying "geez Ryder is up there talking to fans and making paper airplanes, no wonder we can't score!"

Your blaming the lack of scoring on Ryder???
Learn to read, I never stated that Ryder is going to cost us the series and I never blamed the lack of scoring on Ryder so the very base of your post is wrong.

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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Actually they don't get paid after game 82.
I'm pretty sure that an NHL contract includes that if a team makes the playoffs, the player is still under contract for that period of time, it would be plain dumb to omit this fact.

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05-02-2008, 03:24 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Dynasty View Post
I think it's already been discussed as to why. You just don't take a purely offensive minded player and expect to transform him into a complete all round player overnight. Some patience, understanding and maybe a little guidance might be in order here. You just don't sit and wonder why but rather, as a coach, you get involved in the situation and work together as a team.

Some players may adjust quicker than others but that's just human nature...But the tragedy of all this is really that Carbo has shot himself in the foot. The gifted assets that Ryder has are exactly what he needs urgently in this series (and given Ryder's success against the Flyers, it only amplifies the situation even more).

Ultimately, if you're going to question Ryder's "deterioration" then you're going to have to question Carbo's inability to capitalize on Ryder's assets which could be one part of the puzzle to help propel the team to the SC final. In the end, he has to be held accountable if the team bows out early in the playoffs when the vast majority of people agree that the Habs have more than enough talent to do it and should have done it.
D., I think that the staff watched a new kid come in with more game, who took Ryder's job. S.Kost. Sometimes these kids are flavour of the month types, sometimes not, we'll see. I think that in the end, they decided that Ryder just doesn't bring enough in terms of shift after shift effort.

Gainey's comments on him were telling I thought. Whatever Ryder was doing, it wasn't enough. I know you're a fan, I get that you are for more than one reason, but deep down, I don't think players often get screwed. Hockey's a pretty mean business and if the staff feels that 20 guys are pulling in one direction and a few others aren't, they spend their time on those that are.



The fact that Gainey had a chat with him is very telling, in terms of how the org. seems to work. The Gainey chat is usually the salvage mode.

If he was to get back in the lineup, I bet we'd see something short term, but it wouldn't last. I just believe that players have to accept responsibility for their own situations.


AS for how he acts in the press box, everyone has their own way. Fooling around affects nothing, he can't score from up there. Booing him for paper airplanes is kind of funny actually. It's pretty naive to think we know what kind of facial expression he should wear in the press box.

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Old
05-02-2008, 03:26 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
How long should the Habs carry him on the roster while he's not producing at all ? I don't get your point of "we benched him so it's normal he acts unconcerned", he's still paid to do his job when he's asked to do it and not being concerned for the team is not acceptable since it's still his job to help this team.
Very true, I was going to post that this is completely unprofessional. Very disappointed as well, I really like Ryder, but it's probably just a mix of him being goofy and feeling completely left out of the team. I was just expecting that someone like him, who had to overcome so much to be a pro would bring more to the table.

I still think he's got that instinct, but I guess it's becoming pretty clear he'll have to find it elsewhere.

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Old
05-02-2008, 03:26 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Benzaza View Post
He does not care of the HABS..ok I will give you this point...but The HABs at least the coaching staff does not neither...htey dont because he did not perform but lets take it easy with those comments...
How could you possibly know what this guy cares about ?

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05-02-2008, 03:39 PM
  #187
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Why the hell should Carbonneau put a guy like Michael Ryder in the lineup when he's got superstars like Latendresse, Dandeneault, Begin, and Lapierre to choose from? I mean, these guys took the Habs on their backs this year and brought them to the top in the Eastern Conference...of course they got a little help from Koivu, Kovalev, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, etc...but for the most part, these 'flying frenchmen' have taken a page out of the book of the old Montreal Canadiens teams of the 1970's. It gives me chills to watch these guys perform at the level that we've all come to expect from French-Canadian superstars.
And Guy Carbonneau...he should be applauded and commended for his refusal to insert Ryder in the lineup when all practical and sensible reasons are telling him to do the opposite. Why would he use a guy who has great career numbers against their current opponent, who has the ability to score goals in bunches, improved his defensive game at his coaches request, and is very well liked by his teamates? Defense wins championships! What a brilliant mind he must have to play a hunch like that!!!
Goalscorers? Goalscorers? We don't need no stinking goalscorers!

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05-02-2008, 03:54 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
Why the hell should Carbonneau put a guy like Michael Ryder in the lineup when he's got superstars like Latendresse, Dandeneault, Begin, and Lapierre to choose from?
Lats hits harder and has soft hands, Dandy is very fast and has 3 cups rings, Begin hits like a truck and is full of energy same with Laps. What does Ryder bring? He shows up every 10 games or so. These other guys show up in all of them. No they don't score like Ryder CAN (but hasn't) but they bring their own skills to the table. Ryder, while not scoring, does very little of these things and at the same time, coughs up the puck more then not. Yes he's improved a lot in other aspects of the game, but not enough to warrant a permanent spot. He was replaced by Sergei on the depths in the top 6. The bottom 6 is filled with role players that do their job.

To put Ryder in the top 6 risks breaking up your own plays. Putting him in the bottom 6 drops the intensity needed there in the playoffs.

All in my opinion, of course. I actually really like Ryder. He's just not bringing it this year.

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05-02-2008, 04:04 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
Why the hell should Carbonneau put a guy like Michael Ryder in the lineup when he's got superstars like Latendresse, Dandeneault, Begin, and Lapierre to choose from? I mean, these guys took the Habs on their backs this year and brought them to the top in the Eastern Conference...of course they got a little help from Koivu, Kovalev, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, etc...but for the most part, these 'flying frenchmen' have taken a page out of the book of the old Montreal Canadiens teams of the 1970's. It gives me chills to watch these guys perform at the level that we've all come to expect from French-Canadian superstars.
And Guy Carbonneau...he should be applauded and commended for his refusal to insert Ryder in the lineup when all practical and sensible reasons are telling him to do the opposite. Why would he use a guy who has great career numbers against their current opponent, who has the ability to score goals in bunches, improved his defensive game at his coaches request, and is very well liked by his teamates? Defense wins championships! What a brilliant mind he must have to play a hunch like that!!!
Goalscorers? Goalscorers? We don't need no stinking goalscorers!
I don't really think that Koivu, Kovalev, Pleks, KOst bros have helped this year at all.
It was all done by Dandenault and Begin, OK?

Koivu, Koavlev??...how do you dare?



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05-02-2008, 04:07 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Lats hits harder and has soft hands, Dandy is very fast and has 3 cups rings, Begin hits like a truck and is full of energy same with Laps. What does Ryder bring? He shows up every 10 games or so. These other guys show up in all of them. No they don't score like Ryder CAN (but hasn't) but they bring their own skills to the table. Ryder, while not scoring, does very little of these things and at the same time, coughs up the puck more then not. Yes he's improved a lot in other aspects of the game, but not enough to warrant a permanent spot. He was replaced by Sergei on the depths in the top 6. The bottom 6 is filled with role players that do their job.

To put Ryder in the top 6 risks breaking up your own plays. Putting him in the bottom 6 drops the intensity needed there in the playoffs.

All in my opinion, of course. I actually really like Ryder. He's just not bringing it this year.

If you like to talk about the past, Ryder scored an average 25 goals per season since his debut in the NHL. Thats not bad, and we can have a 25 goals scorers on the third line with Lapierre and Streit. I know it was one game but he showed he can score goals in the bottom 2 lines when we had the comeback against the Rangers. All he did was throwing the puck through traffic and it went it, something we are not able to do against the Flyers.

Believe me, i hate Ryder, but i believe that he can score us important goal just because he actually CAN do it. I see him score important goal more than Latendresse, Dandenault, Lapierre and even Streit.

The only thing is Carbo NEEDS to talk to Ryder and ask him to play simple, just put the damn puck on the net and stop trying to dig.

I am even ready to put S.Kostitsyn on the third line to feed him the puck.

A. Kost-Plek-Kovalev
Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
S.Kost - Lapierre - Ryder

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05-02-2008, 04:26 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
What's absurd about it? I stated 2 facts. Take them the way you want.

Which fact was that?

Kovy's statement? link please. not a fact without the proof. Is it Ryder? Don't think so.... see your "Fact" #2.

Ryder taking the Habs to arbitration2 times. Wrong. He did not take the Habs to arbitration once. each time his contract was up, Ryder signed before it got to arbitration. Both times for less then he would have gotten through arbitrition

Fact:
- the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
- something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b: an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
- a piece of information presented as having objective reality

Maybe the word you were looking for is "fallacy".

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05-02-2008, 04:29 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalcon View Post
Why the hell should Carbonneau put a guy like Michael Ryder in the lineup when he's got superstars like Latendresse, Dandeneault, Begin, and Lapierre to choose from? I mean, these guys took the Habs on their backs this year and brought them to the top in the Eastern Conference...of course they got a little help from Koivu, Kovalev, Plekanec, Kostitsyn, etc...but for the most part, these 'flying frenchmen' have taken a page out of the book of the old Montreal Canadiens teams of the 1970's. It gives me chills to watch these guys perform at the level that we've all come to expect from French-Canadian superstars.
And Guy Carbonneau...he should be applauded and commended for his refusal to insert Ryder in the lineup when all practical and sensible reasons are telling him to do the opposite. Why would he use a guy who has great career numbers against their current opponent, who has the ability to score goals in bunches, improved his defensive game at his coaches request, and is very well liked by his teamates?!
Because he stinks?

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Old
05-02-2008, 04:53 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by David_99 View Post
Lats hits harder and has soft hands, Dandy is very fast and has 3 cups rings, Begin hits like a truck and is full of energy same with Laps. What does Ryder bring? He shows up every 10 games or so. These other guys show up in all of them. No they don't score like Ryder CAN (but hasn't) but they bring their own skills to the table. Ryder, while not scoring, does very little of these things and at the same time, coughs up the puck more then not. Yes he's improved a lot in other aspects of the game, but not enough to warrant a permanent spot. He was replaced by Sergei on the depths in the top 6. The bottom 6 is filled with role players that do their job.

To put Ryder in the top 6 risks breaking up your own plays. Putting him in the bottom 6 drops the intensity needed there in the playoffs.

All in my opinion, of course. I actually really like Ryder. He's just not bringing it this year.
Who? Sami Kapenin after he's dumped the puck in that cost his team the game and probably the series! Yeah...great example.

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Old
05-02-2008, 05:53 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Samsonov said last year Carbo never spoke to him to tell himwhat he was doing wrong or even communicated with him on anything...just a day or two ago 990 was saying Carbo and the Montreal management hadn't spoke directly to Ryder since January.

That's fact enough, unless everyone is a lier and Carbo is the word of god?
Isn't it possible that the "haven't talked to" Ryder context was contract? You seriously believe NOBODY talked to Ryder? How did he know he was in the line-up or out? Sign language?

As for Samsonov? I think it was pretty clear that he wasn't trying from the get go showing up at camp way over weight. He was given lots of chances to work his way into the line-up and did not. He demanded a trade, which the team tried to do and there were no takers. He eventually ended up in Chicago who were underwhelmed by his performance too. Perhaps he woke up long enough to trick carolina into that deal (oddly similar to his Habs deal).

So if you trust samsonov more than Carbo based on sammies history, and sammies word, I think you have it in for carbo

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05-02-2008, 06:34 PM
  #195
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i don't really get why so many people feel the need to come to ryder's defense...

ryder has always been what he is, a marginal NHL hockey player with a decent shot and a fairly good nose for the net.
On a borderline/non-playoff team with scoring roles, he got premium PP minutes and the chance to play with the few talented offensive players in the lineup.
but at the time, the team was bad enough and had enough holes in its lineup that he could continue to get those minutes while his OVBVIOUS short-comings were relatively ignored (at least in the sense of him not loosing ice time).

Go figure, once the team started having some real success, and playing at a level good enough to be one of the top teams in the conference/league, the expectations on players getting those opportunities (ice time & PP minutes) and those linemates (Koivu) rose, and Ryder just couldn't meet those demands (loosing out essentially to a rookie).
With Lats filling the role of "offensive project" (guy who doesn't bring much else, but is kept around for what he "will" bring), there simply is no room for Ryder, BECAUSE HE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

No one is out to get him, no one hates him, and obviously the team would love it if he were a true sniper capable of creating his own scoring chances/burying ones created for him. The fact that he hasn't gotten a sniff of playoff action, even when the team is desperate for someone to bury a goal or two, shows exactly what the team thinks of him as a hockey player... something that at least some of us have observed for a very long time.

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05-02-2008, 06:42 PM
  #196
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I was mad at Bob for not locking him up long term before he hit his UFA years but it looks like it was the right move. At some point Carbo just gave up on him, he won't get an offer from the Habs.

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05-02-2008, 06:50 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Prrebel View Post
Which fact was that?

Kovy's statement? link please. not a fact without the proof. Is it Ryder? Don't think so.... see your "Fact" #2.

Ryder taking the Habs to arbitration2 times. Wrong. He did not take the Habs to arbitration once. each time his contract was up, Ryder signed before it got to arbitration. Both times for less then he would have gotten through arbitrition

Fact:
- the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
- something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b: an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
- a piece of information presented as having objective reality

Maybe the word you were looking for is "fallacy".
PJ Stock was doing a bit on how the CH kept taking Ryder to arbitration, how unfair they were being. See how the wording changes everything ? I e mailed, explaining that in fact, they had never appeared before the arbitrator. He acknowledged what I said as fact, but went on with it on his show as the truth would've hurt his bit.

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05-02-2008, 08:01 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Prrebel View Post
Which fact was that?

Kovy's statement? link please. not a fact without the proof. Is it Ryder? Don't think so.... see your "Fact" #2.

Ryder taking the Habs to arbitration2 times. Wrong. He did not take the Habs to arbitration once. each time his contract was up, Ryder signed before it got to arbitration. Both times for less then he would have gotten through arbitrition

Fact:
- the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
- something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact> b: an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
- a piece of information presented as having objective reality

Maybe the word you were looking for is "fallacy".
For **** sakes.

#1 I don't have a link for the Kovy quote. It was last year during his big Russian Media taboo. He said someone on the team was just playing for money. I'll try not to lose sleep tonight if you don't believe me.

#2 Sorry I meant to write ALMOST brought the Habs to Arby, waiting til the 11th hour to strike a deal, using it as a contract tactic.

A·nal
-adjective
1. of, pertaining to, involving, or near the anus.
2. Psychoanalysis. a. of or pertaining to the second stage of psychosexual development
3. Acting as if a large rod has been inserted into one's anus


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Old
05-02-2008, 08:02 PM
  #199
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http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20...128/CPSPORTS01

if anyone cares, apparently Ryder spent his time laughing with his friends on his cell phone while the Habs were getting beat on monday. Last night he made paper planes and threw them around while the Canadiens were getting beat again.

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Old
05-02-2008, 08:12 PM
  #200
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I don't blame the guy, I honestly thought he played pretty good against Boston, when he played, seems like Carbo just has it in for him

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