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Old
05-05-2008, 09:43 AM
  #26
Gros Bill
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Jean Beliveau used to pack a sandwich and read a book on long train rides, wasn't really one of 'the boys'.

I wonder if he and Doug Harvey had any problems ? I wonder if the Rocket liked Tom Johnson ? I wonder if many of the 70's Habs found Ken Dyden distant and difficult to relate to ?

I wonder if it mattered ?
I don't really get your point. Are you saying that players got along better back then (which is probable, don't forget they were usually from the same background and country) or that players weren't traded because of conlicts of personality? For all we know, maybe a guy like Harvey was traded because he and Gros Bill didn't get along, and his union activities were just a good pretext. (I know that's not the "official" story, but who's to say it's not the "real" reason). Who's to say?

AFAIC, Gagnon is just doing his job, letting his readers in on his perception of the dressing room, going beyond the "he's a great player/leader and we all love him" quotes. He's speculating, of course, but that's part of his job.

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Old
05-05-2008, 09:43 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Bang on. If a bunch of posters meet, include yourself, I'd be there, there'd be a few rounds of drinks, maybe we'd all watch a game, then at a point someone suggests we move the party to......

That's when I bow out, it's been fun but there's a point where it's not my scene, and the old guys go to bed to let the kids have their fun. I just don't see Saku going 'yo, brothers K, I know a place that's.....'
Hey Phees' we up for that all night rave in Sisco this weekend? IP can bring some hookers and blow, if any are left over.

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05-05-2008, 09:52 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
I don't really get your point. Are you saying that players got along better back then (which is probable, don't forget they were usually from the same background and country) or that players weren't traded because of conlicts of personality? For all we know, maybe a guy like Harvey was traded because he and Gros Bill didn't get along, and his union activities were just a good pretext. (I know that's not the "official" story, but who's to say it's not the "real" reason). Who's to say?

AFAIC, Gagnon is just doing his job, letting his readers in on his perception of the dressing room, going beyond the "he's a great player/leader and we all love him" quotes. He's speculating, of course, but that's part of his job.
I think he's saying that no one in the press would have ran a story of a locker room divided on the basis of Gros Bill reading a book while his team mates played cards and drank. Koivu and the younger generation might not have all that much in common, chasing tail and going to clubs on the road (or at home) gets old for a family man, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a rift in the room.

Why is it that it's perfectly acceptable to lambaste management, the coaching staff and the players but not the press? Gagnon is of course entitled to express his opinion, but to some of us he appears to be a dolt with an axe to grind.

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05-05-2008, 10:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
I don't really get your point. Are you saying that players got along better back then (which is probable, don't forget they were usually from the same background and country) or that players weren't traded because of conlicts of personality? For all we know, maybe a guy like Harvey was traded because he and Gros Bill didn't get along, and his union activities were just a good pretext. (I know that's not the "official" story, but who's to say it's not the "real" reason). Who's to say?

AFAIC, Gagnon is just doing his job, letting his readers in on his perception of the dressing room, going beyond the "he's a great player/leader and we all love him" quotes. He's speculating, of course, but that's part of his job.
Oh, now I'm supposed to have a point ? I guess my point is that when you have 20 guys together, chances are that you'll like most, be close to a smaller number, dislike a few, and that's always been the way.

Unless it's open warfare, I don't think it matters a whole lot. What I meant was that every team historically probably had great players who weren't close but functionned well on the ice.

Yeah, Gagnon's doing his job, and for the most part, I enjoy his bits on radio. I don't read his column that much unless it's linked here, but overall, he's someone I'll take time to listen to. I like to think that I'm not one of the many who hates every journalist that criticizes my beloved team, but I do have the impression that Gagnon has it in for Kovalev. Maybe he has reason to, that's a different debate, but I definitely get the impression that Gagnon feels that he and his paper, and one of his colleagues 'owe' Kovy. That's hardly a new thing, but I have that feeling listening to Gagnon.

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05-05-2008, 10:06 AM
  #30
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Really, the issue I have is that clearly Gagnon is grinding his axes.

Kovalev, for example, he cites how Kovalev was ignoring his teammates during the final weeks, but the only actual incident he gives is that Kovalev attended all the team dinners around Montreal because he had nothing better to do (isn't he married and wasn't his father visiting from Russia... and doesn't he own a plane? I mean how bored could he truly be if that was such a chore).

As many have stated, it's normal that Koivu not be a big friend of most his teammates, he's older. Same really goes for Kovalev, I might add, but he's received high praise all year as someone who mentored the young Russians.

I am sure this is all living in Gagnon's head, to be honest, but even if it isn't, I think he's making much a do about nothing.

Ultimately, Kovalev has to stay. He was the soul of the team this year.

Koivu showed he has a lot left in the tank during the playoffs too.

I would like to see the Habs go for a dominant #1 centre though and play with three scoring lines, transitioning Koivu in the next 2 years to the Yzerman late career role.

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05-05-2008, 10:07 AM
  #31
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Hey Phees' we up for that all night rave in Sisco this weekend? IP can bring some hookers and blow, if any are left over.
Yes,Fido, I am down with that. At least I will be when I get my rave clothes back from the cleaners.

Will the Sisco Kid be there ? He was a friend of mine ?

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05-05-2008, 10:12 AM
  #32
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I can't remember anyone saying a nice personal thing about Jacques Plante and Red Fisher never disguised his dislike for the man, and yet it seemed to work quite well.The players were allowed to be human and have failings as long as they showed up and played like champs, as after all, they were their own harshest critics.

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05-05-2008, 10:17 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
J
I wonder if he and Doug Harvey had any problems ? I wonder if the Rocket liked Tom Johnson ? I wonder if many of the 70's Habs found Ken Dyden distant and difficult to relate to ?

I wonder if it mattered ?
Enough of the wondering already!

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05-05-2008, 10:17 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider View Post
I can't remember anyone saying a nice personal thing about Jacques Plante and Red Fisher never disguised his dislike for the man, and yet it seemed to work quite well.The players were allowed to be human and have failings as long as they showed up and played like champs, as after all, they were their own harshest critics.
Fisher ? Hell, Blake hated Plante.

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05-05-2008, 10:19 AM
  #35
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I have always respected gagnon writing but this is a low blow to the habs. We just had one of are best season since 1993 and two days into the off season and bang he tries to come up with the old controversy. This guy has been spending to much time in the 110% show.

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:20 AM
  #36
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Sure,Fisher disliked Plante because Plante was ornery, just like Red, and Red holds gridges.

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:21 AM
  #37
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Enough of the wondering already!
Well, I wonder, I woooonder , why, she went away, my little runaway

run,run,run runaway.


Del Shannon could sing ehhh ? Did you know that he was supposed to be a Traveling Wilbury, but dying sort of nixed the idea .

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:23 AM
  #38
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Kovalev and Koivu haven't had a child together yet! It's official, they hate eachother!

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:27 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider View Post
Sure,Fisher disliked Plante because Plante was ornery, just like Red, and Red holds gridges.
Did Fisher ever go after him though ? I read something about him quoting Blake to the effect of, he couldn't stand the guy but considered him the mvp of the 50's Habs.

I have a vague memory of Plante doing color at Jr. games during his 1st retirement. Dick Irvin would do the games, and he and Plante worked together. We used to go to the Saturady aft. games, it was the year the subway opened, 66.

Geezus, Plante could talk.

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05-05-2008, 10:29 AM
  #40
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Seriously, Kovalev had what amounted to 3 or 4 bad games and suddenly this means he and Koivu hate each other and the dressing room is split?

People are lunatics.

Kovalev wasn't pouting because the C was "taken away" from him. There is no logical way he didn't see it coming since it was never really "given to him" anyway.

If this is true, the two should both be traded for being 4 year olds. Luckily, it's Gagnon making things up.

I agree with you....if there is any truth to this story at all....I don't want either of them on my team!!! No matter what way you look at it, if these 2 guys don't get along its because BOTH of them insist on having it that way. It takes 2 to tango so you can't blame just one of these guys.

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05-05-2008, 10:31 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
I think he's saying that no one in the press would have ran a story of a locker room divided on the basis of Gros Bill reading a book while his team mates played cards and drank. Koivu and the younger generation might not have all that much in common, chasing tail and going to clubs on the road (or at home) gets old for a family man, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a rift in the room.

Why is it that it's perfectly acceptable to lambaste management, the coaching staff and the players but not the press? Gagnon is of course entitled to express his opinion, but to some of us he appears to be a dolt with an axe to grind.
Where did I say you shouldn't criticize the press? I'm just saying he's giving his insight about the team instead of the usual pap we usually get served. If you prefer to think of him as "a dolt with an axe to grind", good for you.

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:32 AM
  #42
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Based on the thread title I was hoping that this was going to be an announcement of Gagnon's retirement. Alas.

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05-05-2008, 10:35 AM
  #43
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complete ********. Common, it is clear that those two guys, they dont hate each other. They might be neutral.. but damn. What a **** disturber this gagnon
pet peeve of the decade, people who spell "come on" as common. Do ya not know what COMMON is? Do they not realize another word "Common" exists? It's a pretty common error on these forums imo.

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05-05-2008, 10:47 AM
  #44
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He was a friend of mine ?
You're asking me? Man, Phees', you party too much.

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05-05-2008, 10:47 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Where did I say you shouldn't criticize the press? I'm just saying he's giving his insight about the team instead of the usual pap we usually get served. If you prefer to think of him as "a dolt with an axe to grind", good for you.
Thing is Bill, Gagnon can be good at his job and dislike Kovalev at the same time. Maybe he's justified in whatever h ethinks of the guy, and he sees stuff that confirms his opinion ?

He doesn't owe the team anything and he doesn't owe us flowers about a good season, but I think at the least, if he sees/hears something negative about #27, it isn't hard for him to climb aboard.

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05-05-2008, 10:50 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
I agree with you....if there is any truth to this story at all....I don't want either of them on my team!!! No matter what way you look at it, if these 2 guys don't get along its because BOTH of them insist on having it that way. It takes 2 to tango so you can't blame just one of these guys.
Actually, when I read this, I got up in my office and proved that no, it doesn't take 2 to tango.

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:54 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
So because François Gagnon hasn't witnessed Koivu and Kovalev going for a manicure and a pedicure together the dressing room is divided, sounds perfectly plausible.
Yeah, I agree, this is just another blast of hot air to sell a few newspapers. I'd be more inclined to wonder if Kovalev wasn't worn down by playoff time. He played in every game this season and had plenty of ice time in each game.

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05-05-2008, 11:01 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
He cites that Koivu and Kovalev are not able to share the same locker room. He cites that Kovalev was weaker when Koivu came, and that he was getting away from the other players after he had to give the "C" up.

I know this is probably all bullcrap, but who would you choose between those two?
Unlike previous seasons (most notably '06-'07) I have every reason to believe (and all media reoprts indicated) that Kovalev, during the '07-'08 season was the consumate team player and was nothing but a positive influence on and off the ice.

I can only assume that, like a lot of other journalists, the author needs something "different" to write about -- maybe to 'stir the pot" so to speak!

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05-05-2008, 11:02 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Where did I say you shouldn't criticize the press? I'm just saying he's giving his insight about the team instead of the usual pap we usually get served. If you prefer to think of him as "a dolt with an axe to grind", good for you.
Some people (and I don't count you amongst them) feel that the press should be free from criticism. Ironically they're the same group who routinely heap scorn on the club and management.

Sure François is paid to express his opinion, I think we all understand that, however he's supposed to exercise some professionalism as well. At this point is Gagnon is teetering on the brink of becoming about as credible as Jack Todd. In this instance, his insight (a better word would have been supposition) is no better than the usual pap we read.

And thanks, I'll continue to think of him as a witless hack (or a dolt) with an axe to grind.

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05-05-2008, 11:02 AM
  #50
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Although I don't believe everything I read in the papers, far from it, I love how some people think that this theory is complete bullcrap (difference from thinking that it should not be said or that it is not uncommon)when most people haven't been within 4 feet of both players, let alone at the same time, let alone more than once. Yeah, that Gagnon guy is a complete clueless guy, doesn't matter that he's privy to things most people are not.

For the record, I believe him. Doesn't change much anyway. So what if they don't like each other? If it becomes a huge problem, management will deal with it. But even if true, it wouldn't have been the reason the habs lost in all previous years (or at least not the only reason).

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