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Old
05-05-2008, 10:05 AM
  #51
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I would trade both and try to get some younger talent.. with a little more size and grit.

I mean, if it came right down to it.... that would suck because I think Koivu makes this team tick.

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05-05-2008, 10:08 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Thing is Bill, Gagnon can be good at his job and dislike Kovalev at the same time. Maybe he's justified in whatever h ethinks of the guy, and he sees stuff that confirms his opinion ?

He doesn't owe the team anything and he doesn't owe us flowers about a good season, but I think at the least, if he sees/hears something negative about #27, it isn't hard for him to climb aboard.
Is it really all negative about Kovalev?

Quote:
Après une saison du tonnerre, Alex Kovalev a haussé son jeu lorsqu'il a endossé le chandail de capitaine en l'absence de Saku Koivu.
Yeah, you can tell he's really got it in for him.

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05-05-2008, 10:11 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bob De Funes View Post
Although I don't believe everything I read in the papers, far from it, I love how some people think that this theory is complete bullcrap (difference from thinking that it should not be said or that it is not uncommon)when most people haven't been within 4 feet of both players, let alone at the same time, let alone more than once. Yeah, that Gagnon guy is a complete clueless guy, doesn't matter that he's privy to things most people are not.

For the record, I believe him. Doesn't change much anyway. So what if they don't like each other? If it becomes a huge problem, management will deal with it. But even if true, it wouldn't have been the reason the habs lost in all previous years (or at least not the only reason).
That's kind of where I stand. I think Kovalev played great hockey all year. I think that he made a few adjustments in how he moved the puck, how he moved without the puck rather than trying to do too much himself.

Using his teammates better turned him from a good player with exceptional skills, into an exceptional player. He seemed to revert back into trying to do too much himself in the post season. Maybe he wanted it a bit too much ? Maybe after a bad game or 2, he wasn't getting what he wanted from his linemates ? I don't know, chemistry seems to get up and leave for no apparent reason.

I don't think who he likes or doesn't like matters much.

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05-05-2008, 10:20 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Really, the issue I have is that clearly Gagnon is grinding his axes.

Kovalev, for example, he cites how Kovalev was ignoring his teammates during the final weeks, but the only actual incident he gives is that Kovalev attended all the team dinners around Montreal because he had nothing better to do (isn't he married and wasn't his father visiting from Russia... and doesn't he own a plane? I mean how bored could he truly be if that was such a chore).

As many have stated, it's normal that Koivu not be a big friend of most his teammates, he's older. Same really goes for Kovalev, I might add, but he's received high praise all year as someone who mentored the young Russians.

I am sure this is all living in Gagnon's head, to be honest, but even if it isn't, I think he's making much a do about nothing.

Ultimately, Kovalev has to stay. He was the soul of the team this year.

Koivu showed he has a lot left in the tank during the playoffs too.

I would like to see the Habs go for a dominant #1 centre though and play with three scoring lines, transitioning Koivu in the next 2 years to the Yzerman late career role.
Agreed on the axe to grind. Kovy and Koivu will remain the whipping boys for some of the media no matter what.

Also, Gagnon is still on the Kovy hate watch after last year.

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05-05-2008, 10:22 AM
  #55
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Okay what is the deal with the tape?

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05-05-2008, 10:23 AM
  #56
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Bob will never get rid of Kovy nor of Coriveau, those are both great athletes that will be the soul of the CH for the next 3-4 years. Kovy is a leader and a teacher with the Kostis and Pleky, wich is realy important for their development. But Koivu is the real leader, always calm, always a great analysis of the situation, always puting everything he has the ice... those two player are the main ingredient in the Stanley cake recipe.

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05-05-2008, 10:23 AM
  #57
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Dumb question. Koivu.

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05-05-2008, 10:23 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Is it really all negative about Kovalev?



Yeah, you can tell he's really got it in for him.
The next paragraphs are a bit snotty though. He attended team dinners because he had nothing else to do ? I don't know what goes on in Kovalev's head but it seems like he's stretching to make things fit his pov.

It's not a hatchet job, he couldn't do that with any credibility and he is credible.

I think Gagnon looks for a negative slant on the guy. Not liking Kovalev doesn't make him evil, but I think he waits for chances to write this type of article in a subtle fashion.

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05-05-2008, 10:27 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
The next paragraphs are a bit snotty though. He attended team dinners because he had nothing else to do ? I don't know what goes on in Kovalev's head but it seems like he's stretching to make things fit his pov.

It's not a hatchet job, he couldn't do that with any credibility and he is credible.

I think Gagnon looks for a negative slant on the guy. Not liking Kovalev doesn't make him evil, but I think he waits for chances to write this type of article in a subtle fashion.
Okay, okay, I know when I'm licked. He should have just gone with the "great leader/player and everyone loves him/them" quotes.

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05-05-2008, 10:31 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Dumb question. Koivu.
Wow! Great! What an elaborated answer. You really added something here! It's really nice to argue with you, even though you have such solid arguments!

You're probably one of those who thought we could win the cup with an offense led by Higgins and Ryder last year...

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05-05-2008, 10:33 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Okay, okay, I know when I'm licked. He should have just gone with the "great leader/player and everyone loves him/them" quotes.
You know I don't think that. It's natural for columnists to have their 'guys'. Some guys are mean spirited about it, ie Todd, some guys have an opinion and wait for a chance to express it.

You know what I mean ? You have your notion, then wait for a chance to confirm it. There are worse than Gagnon. He's got the right to the opinion, but when I read/listen, I know he's not a fan of the guy.

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05-05-2008, 10:40 AM
  #62
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Alright, let's set aside Gagnon's feelings about either player and ask ourselves does his premise make sense?

Kovalev proved that he can step up when called upon (during Koivu's absence) and Koivu proved that he can still play (especially come playoff time), both are signed to reasonable amounts for next season. Does either player sound like a guy the Habs should contemplate moving? Even if the Habs add some offensive punch in the off-season, why not simply role three attacking lines instead of jettisoning either Koivu or Kovalev.

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05-05-2008, 10:53 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Jean Beliveau used to pack a sandwich and read a book on long train rides, wasn't really one of 'the boys'.

I wonder if he and Doug Harvey had any problems ? I wonder if the Rocket liked Tom Johnson ? I wonder if many of the 70's Habs found Ken Dyden distant and difficult to relate to ?

I wonder if it mattered ?
They seemed to be getting along fine on this photo taken at Toe Blake's tavern on Ste Catherine st back in the 50's


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05-05-2008, 10:58 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Alright, let's set aside Gagnon's feelings about either player and ask ourselves does his premise make sense?

Kovalev proved that he can step up when called upon (during Koivu's absence) and Koivu proved that he can still play (especially come playoff time), both are signed to reasonable amounts for next season. Does either player sound like a guy the Habs should contemplate moving? Even if the Habs add some offensive punch in the off-season, why not simply role three attacking lines instead of jettisoning either Koivu or Kovalev.
If you look at it that way, add to the equation that Kovalev has demonstrated that he is capable of disappearing for long stretches at a time, practically the entire 06-07 season. Maybe that should be considered.

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05-05-2008, 11:00 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Wow! Great! What an elaborated answer. You really added something here! It's really nice to argue with you, even though you have such solid arguments!

You're probably one of those who thought we could win the cup with an offense led by Higgins and Ryder last year...
There's no way in hell you trade your captain and warrior. Kovalev has all the skills, but he's only a warrior when someone tries to hurt him and then he ends up being a warrior sitting in the penalty box at a crucial point in the game.

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05-05-2008, 11:01 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
They seemed to be getting along fine on this photo taken at Toe Blake's tavern on Ste Catherine st back in the 50's

nice pic!

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05-05-2008, 11:01 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
You know I don't think that. It's natural for columnists to have their 'guys'. Some guys are mean spirited about it, ie Todd, some guys have an opinion and wait for a chance to express it.

You know what I mean ? You have your notion, then wait for a chance to confirm it. There are worse than Gagnon. He's got the right to the opinion, but when I read/listen, I know he's not a fan of the guy.
I'm not sure I agree. I find it more repulsive when it comes from a guy like Gagnon. I can deal with it when it comes from Todd or Rejean Tremblay or Michel Blanchard. They're just blow hards who are paid to be controversial.

But Gagnon is a hockey insider/columnist, in the mold of Mackenzie. His personal likes and dislikes are irrelevant. Think of all the time you have listened to MacKenzie, when was the last time he interjected his personal likes and dislikes? Just report the facts, don't embellish, stop being the story.

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05-05-2008, 11:02 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
They seemed to be getting along fine on this photo taken at Toe Blake's tavern on Ste Catherine st back in the 50's

McPhee, is that you with the kookie glasses? BTW the broad with the dark hair is Artie before the life changing operation

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05-05-2008, 11:03 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
They seemed to be getting along fine on this photo taken at Toe Blake's tavern on Ste Catherine st back in the 50's


@ the guy on the left with the glasses. Who is he?? I could use him as my avy!

Wait, is it Howie Morenz Jr.?????

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05-05-2008, 11:04 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
If you look at it that way, add to the equation that Kovalev has demonstrated that he is capable of disappearing for long stretches at a time, practically the entire 06-07 season. Maybe that should be considered.
That could absolutely be considered as a factor, right along side the fact that he rebounded beyond all expectations this year. I still think that a $4.5 and $4.75 million respectively, Kovalev and Koivu give you excellent bang for the buck, there is no need to move either guy (even if the Habs can corral that unicorn like UFA they seem to always be after).

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05-05-2008, 11:05 AM
  #71
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@ the guy on the left with the glasses. Who is it?? I could use him as my avy!
That's Emile "Butch" Bouchard, the captain of the team.

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05-05-2008, 11:07 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
Okay, okay, I know when I'm licked. He should have just gone with the "great leader/player and everyone loves him/them" quotes.
Right, Because its the first time Gagnon writes something bad about Kovalev?..

There hasn't been any proof either that Koivu and Kovalev dislike each other and can't share a dressing room.

Even if it's true, if they do hate each other but are still capable to perform like they did last season, then wow...i guess they can cope with it very easily. If Kovalev has a problem with somebody as big as the Captain of the team, he wouldn't have stayed in MTL, especially not after his horrific 06-07 season.

It's only a myth as far as im concerned. Its not because they won't go for drinks together that they can't stand each other.

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05-05-2008, 11:08 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
That could absolutely be considered as a factor, right along side the fact that he rebounded beyond all expectations this year. I still think that a $4.5 and $4.75 million respectively, Kovalev and Koivu give you excellent bang for the buck, there is no need to move either guy (even if the Habs can corral that unicorn like UFA they seem to always be after).
There might be no need per se to move either of them, but there might be an opportunity. Plus, we don't know what really happens in the dressing room or during practice, now do we?

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05-05-2008, 11:08 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by rocketlives View Post
They seemed to be getting along fine on this photo taken at Toe Blake's tavern on Ste Catherine st back in the 50's

Great pic. Thanks for that.

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Old
05-05-2008, 11:22 AM
  #75
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That's Emile "Butch" Bouchard, the captain of the team.
lol Emile is my new hero.

I'm making an avy as soon as I get home.

Thanks for the picture btw.

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