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A Good Deal For A Big Center

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:16 PM
  #26
YMCMBeaulieu
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I remember at the trade deadline when Vancouver asked for Jokinen Martin wanted BOTH the Sedins in return.

I'd rather trade for Jaret Stoll as Edmonton already has Gagner, Cogliano and Horcoff up the middle making Stoll expendable.

Grabovski, D'Agostini and a 4th round pick for Stoll?

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:21 PM
  #27
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Jokinen

Jokinen was down 20 points from 2006-07. Zero play-off games in his NHL career.
Not sold.

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:24 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Jokinen was down 20 points from 2006-07. Zero play-off games in his NHL career.
Not sold.
Name me more than 5 players on that team without peaking at their roster...Vokoun doesn't count. The guy plays with a bunch of nobodies.

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05-05-2008, 05:24 PM
  #29
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Later on tonight I'll put it together in a spreadsheet like I did for Hossa and then we can see what kind of budget we're looking at for upcoming seasons.

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:26 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by geeman View Post
The Panthers maybe in a position to move Jokinen , his time may have run out .

A very realistic deal is Higgins , Obyrne, and a solid prospect like Subban or Emelin, plus a pick .

They need D in big way , we need a big center .

He has 2 years left on a fair deal , and would be an ideal# 1 center for us. They get a good player , 5 years younger , and 2 kids .

We have plenty of D prospects , other than McDonough I would move any of them.

what do you think ?

Komisarek straight up for Jokinen? There ya go Panthers if you want to mvoe Olli

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:26 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I think it's important to look at the future of the team. We can only count on Koivu being a top 6 center for another season or two. If we deal Plekanec for Jokinen, then we're still looking for a top 6 center, maybe as soon as next season.

Plekanec is also an accomplished left winger. If we get Jokinen and keep Plekanec, we can use him at left wing, and when Koivu slows down a bit more we have centers a-la Dallas right now. Jokinen, Plekanec, Koivu with Chipchura or Lapierre rounding out the 4.

Next season it looks like (using arbitrary lines):

Plekanec-Jokinen-Kovalev
SKost-Koivu-AKost
Lats-Chipchura-Kosto
Begin-Lapierre-Stewart?

Then down the line it's (again, arbitrary lines):

Latendresse-Jokinen-AKost
SKost-Plekanec-MaxPac
____-Koivu-_____
____-Lapierre/Chipchura-_____

I don't know how it would work, but if we can deal Jokinen without dealing Plekanec that would make for a VERY secure future at center. Listen to me go on. I'm not even a Jokinen fan.
Plekanec is not a playoff player. We saw that and he's definitely not a left winger. We need to get bigger or grittier. Especially in the middle. Koivu has absolutely no help out there. Neither did Kovy or AKosty.

We talk about winning the Cup in the next two years, but the only way I see that happening is if we sign a major UFA and all our defensive prospects pan out AND our core guys now are still contributing at a high level. All possible, but the team I saw in these playoffs is not a playoff team and I expected it all along. These are regular season and special teams skill players. You can't win come playoff time with a team like that.

This team is built for the regular season for now. The good news is we're young and cheap and will clear some salary.

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:27 PM
  #32
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Bouwmeester, Weiss, Horton, Van Ryn, and Olesz.

It's not that he plays with nobody, it's that nobody can put it all together.

I, too, am not sold on Jokinen but I think with the right supporting cast and in the right role (i.e. not captain) he can be a great addition.

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:29 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Bouwmeester, Weiss, Horton, Van Ryn, and Olesz.

It's not that he plays with nobody, it's that nobody can put it all together.

I, too, am not sold on Jokinen but I think with the right supporting cast and in the right role (i.e. not captain) he can be a great addition.
If we traded for Jokinen and re-signed Koivu and Kovalev at the same salary, I guarantee you that Lecavalier would sign here. No way can we give up Komisarek though, that's preposterous. We're not tough enough as it is.

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LeafRefereeeeeees View Post
If we traded for Jokinen and re-signed Koivu and Kovalev at the same salary, I guarantee you that Lecavalier would sign here. No way can we give up Komisarek though, that's preposterous. We're not tough enough as it is.
If we acquire Jokinen (and re-sign Koivu and Kovalev), Lecavalier won't come here because we wouldn't be able to afford him.

Kovalev, as much as I love him, is playing his last season in Montreal next year.

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:38 PM
  #35
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I would assume Patrick Marleau can be had for cheaper than Joikinen.

He packs a big contract and is coming off a bad season, but stepped it up in the Playoffs. I wouldn't mind seeing him in a Habs uniform.

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Old
05-05-2008, 05:47 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Bouwmeester, Weiss, Horton, Van Ryn, and Olesz.

It's not that he plays with nobody, it's that nobody can put it all together.

I, too, am not sold on Jokinen but I think with the right supporting cast and in the right role (i.e. not captain) he can be a great addition.
I still think this is a team that is not going anywhere anytime soon. They have been blessed with excellent goaltending which was never faced with major injuries. When those rumours came out that Jokinen wanted out of Florida I couldn't blame him. Management keeps filling empty roster spots by signing or trading for washed up veterans that were discarded by their previous teams like Zednik, Peltonen, Stumpel, Dvorak, Cullimore, Belak, Kilger. When you bring in these type of names, how can you expect to be able to put things together.

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Old
05-05-2008, 06:10 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Magic33 View Post
Agreed, that would be pretty good deal. IMO higgins is replaceable, and we have many D-Men in our system who will be able to step in. Im sure gainey would seriously consider an offer like this
not only is Higgins replaceable, I think he needs to be replaced, or at least accept a reduced role. He is just not top 6 material.

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Old
05-05-2008, 06:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
not only is Higgins replaceable, I think he needs to be replaced, or at least accept a reduced role. He is just not top 6 material.
How is 27 goals and 52 points NOT top 6 material? Sure, I wouldn't consider him a first line winger, but he does the job more than adequately as a second line winger.

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05-05-2008, 06:18 PM
  #39
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I'd do it. No hesitation. Jokinen is exactly what we need.

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Old
05-05-2008, 06:18 PM
  #40
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Let's wait next year (or at trade deadline) for Lecavalier.

He is the guy we need since ages.

With Lecavalier, Plekanec and Koivu down the middle, we gonna be unbeatable.

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Old
05-05-2008, 06:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
How is 27 goals and 52 points NOT top 6 material? Sure, I wouldn't consider him a first line winger, but he does the job more than adequately as a second line winger.
His numbers were inflated by Koivu. Pretty much anybody puts up those numbers on Koivu's wing. Savage, Zednik, Ryder, Petrov you name it they did it. Higgins does not have the proper finishing ability to play on the wing in a scoring role, at least on a team that wants to win a championship.

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Old
05-05-2008, 06:49 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
His numbers were inflated by Koivu. Pretty much anybody puts up those numbers on Koivu's wing. Savage, Zednik, Ryder, Petrov you name it they did it. Higgins does not have the proper finishing ability to play on the wing in a scoring role, at least on a team that wants to win a championship.
So what? it doesn't change the fact that he IS putting up those numbers.

Look at Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner during Anaheim's cup run: 58, 44, and 45 points respectively.

Higgins is more than good enough as a second line winger on Koivu's line.

This idea that Higgins doesn't have the proper ability to play on the wing for a team that wants to win a championship is only real in your head.

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Old
05-05-2008, 06:56 PM
  #43
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I think we need to be pick up a power forward but either american or Canadian.

I think we have enough skilled european players, I think we need some gritty north american forwards up front.

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05-05-2008, 06:56 PM
  #44
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I agree that he's not a first line player. He's a second line player, but the fact remains that we still don't have a proper first line left wing. Then again, who does? Left wingers that score 60 points don't grow on trees. There are only like 15 in the NHL. Left wingers that score 30 goals are even rarer.

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Old
05-05-2008, 07:01 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
So what? it doesn't change the fact that he IS putting up those numbers.

Look at Getzlaf, Perry, and Penner during Anaheim's cup run: 58, 44, and 45 points respectively.

Higgins is more than good enough as a second line winger on Koivu's line.

This idea that Higgins doesn't have the proper ability to play on the wing for a team that wants to win a championship is only real in your head.
Higgins does not take advantage of his opportunities enough. Why settle for medicrity when we can have better? You love to point out the totals of Anaheim's 2nd line last season, but you also forgot to point out that is a lot easier to get away with when you top line has a 50 goal man and an 80 point guy. Montreal does not have that, we NEED to roll two balanced scoring lines and Higgins is a hinderance to that process. An 11.2 shooting percentage is pretty weak, especially considering he was getting some primo scoring opportunities. Cory Stillman is much better suited for that 2nd line role than Higgins will. Higgins just does not have the ability to shoot on target.

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Old
05-05-2008, 07:13 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Higgins does not take advantage of his opportunities enough. Why settle for medicrity when we can have better? You love to point out the totals of Anaheim's 2nd line last season, but you also forgot to point out that is a lot easier to get away with when you top line has a 50 goal man and an 80 point guy. Montreal does not have that, we NEED to roll two balanced scoring lines and Higgins is a hinderance to that process. An 11.2 shooting percentage is pretty weak, especially considering he was getting some primo scoring opportunities. Cory Stillman is much better suited for that 2nd line role than Higgins will. Higgins just does not have the ability to shoot on target.
As far as I'm concerned, Higgins wasn't the only one fanning on quality scoring opportunities during the playoffs.

Sure, it'd be nice to have Stillman, but Stillman is aging and would be more of a band aid fix. It's pretty easy to conveniently forget that Higgins is 24 years old. He has more than enough time to improve his game.

Honestly, Higgins is more than good enough to be a second line left wing on a championship team. I'm not even going to mention all the other intangibles Higgins brings to the game that don't appear on the scoresheet.

Don't get me wrong, I was pretty critical of Higgins during the season. Higgins is the type of player who needs to work hard every shift to be successful, something which he wasn't doing consistently during the season. Even with that in mind, he still had a more than decent season, and I don't think anyone can deny the fact that that effort was there in the playoffs.

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05-05-2008, 07:13 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Live Forever View Post
Jokinen along with spectacular goaltending in Luongo/Vokoun are the only reason Florida doesn't finish in 15th spot in the Eastern Conference year after year. For people who are bashing his skillset or only pointing out his drawbacks you should give your head a shake. This is a player who plays along side players like David Booth (who???) and Richard Zednik and still manages to put up very good numbers. Problem is that Florida already messed up trading away a franchise player in Luongo very recently and I'm sure they've learned from their mistakes. They are looking to redeem themselves if they plan to trade Jokinen. He won't come keep.
David Booth is a pretty good young player. Florida have a bunch of good young players but poor drafting and player management leave them short on depth. Keenan was a train wreck as GM and Martin is not a proven GM either, especially when juggling coaching duties.

Florida played well down the stretch and had playoff hopes late into the season. They even played huge spoiler in Carolina's playoff bid. Trading a disgruntled Jokinen for a couple of young serviceable players with upside might be the tonic to round out a good young team. Adding a UFA with the money Jokinen frees up on the cap will also help.

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Old
05-05-2008, 07:29 PM
  #48
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o_O uh unless we are getting a 1st rounder with Olli I don't think we should listen to this un-realistic, stupid trade.

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Old
05-05-2008, 07:32 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
As far as I'm concerned, Higgins wasn't the only one fanning on quality scoring opportunities during the playoffs.

Sure, it'd be nice to have Stillman, but Stillman is aging and would be more of a band aid fix. It's pretty easy to conveniently forget that Higgins is 24 years old. He has more than enough time to improve his game.

Honestly, Higgins is more than good enough to be a second line left wing on a championship team. I'm not even going to mention all the other intangibles Higgins brings to the game that don't appear on the scoresheet.

Don't get me wrong, I was pretty critical of Higgins during the season. Higgins is the type of player who needs to work hard every shift to be successful, something which he wasn't doing consistently during the season. Even with that in mind, he still had a more than decent season, and I don't think anyone can deny the fact that that effort was there in the playoffs.
I'm not on his case for the playoffs, I am on his case for the 82 games of missed opportunities during the playoffs. Higgins is capable of being a contributer on a championship team, just not in a scoring role. He is a good defensive player, and he is a hard worker, but he does not have the offensive ability to be in a scoring role. His inability to finish has an effect on more than just him. Teams will put less defensive focus on him and more on Koivu which hurts Koivu himself and the other winger. Higgins is much more useful to us on the 3rd line where he can chip in with offence and be part of a real shutdown unit.

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Old
05-05-2008, 07:34 PM
  #50
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Jokinen for Plekanek and O'Byrne

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