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Old
05-05-2008, 09:49 PM
  #126
goalchenyuk
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Originally Posted by Brieremania View Post
Okay, but saying he is the reason we lost in the playoffs is stupid. If you believe that, you don't know **** about hockey. That is what Gagnon and Bergeron are saying, and it is a really dumb opinion to have.

I'm not saying you feel this way, just that they have said it.
Those threads are ridiculous since most of you didn't even took the time to read the article .

Nowhere Gagnon blamed Koivu in his article .

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05-05-2008, 10:28 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by HamrlikTheStud View Post
Koivu has never lead his team to the cup. That's a simple fact. That's a fact, nonetheleast. You can't say that Koivu proved that he could be the go-to guy of a team so far.

And as for Kovalev... what about if the guy just wasn't happy to be kept with Koivu and Higgins?

What about if the guy was just tired of creating golden chances just to see Higgins miss the net on a 3 feet shot?

What I know, is that this year is the first year since a long time that the Canadiens finished 1st in the eastern conference. This is also the first time they finished first there since Koivu is around. Ironically, this is the first year Koivu is not the go-to guy.

Give the offense back to Koivu, and see what happens. We will go back down there.

Where were you when Koivu wasn't doing anything this season?

Kovalev is the offensive leader of this team, he plays great and makes the other around him better. He had tremendous chemestry all year long with Plekanec and Kostitsyn.

All those who suggest to trade Kovalev away don't have a clue what they talk about.

Well according to you,we all know how Koivu failed to lead his team before Kovalev arrived right?It's because Koivu was one of the main players of this team that those Habs sadsack ,soft and often injured teams weren't supposedly competitive right?Koivu has proved to be the ''main'' guy here,unfortunately he wasn't well-surrounded during those years unlike Kovalev used to be this season with far superior talent around him.Koivu had an average season considering the circumstances related to his icetime(was used much less and was declining,but still accumulated respectable numbers) and he had different linemates to work with and guys like Ryder were affecting Koivu's line chemistry and performance.

Where were you when Kovalev sucked big time in 06-07?Pretty irrevelant isn't it?




Re-read your post please I don't want to start a Kovy/Koivu argument,I appreciate both players,it's pointless and it won't get us nowhere.I just can't believe what I'm currently reading.Koivu has never led a team to a Cup,that's true.But so is Sundin,Linden,Kovalev*,Iginla....can you blame any of Koivu,Sundin,Kovy and Iginla to do so.They've been trying.

And all those who suggest to get rid of Koivu away for any reason don't have a clue.And like it or not and I don't care,Koivu's the incontested leader of this team,and always has been.

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:40 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Billy Kautsitsin View Post
I don't think Koivu is considered overrated by many for what he brings.It's the exact opposite,he has been constantly underrated and never appreciated for what he brings all his career in Montreal.He's been considered a star offensive player,but unlike Kovalev,he wasn't surrounded well like Kovy used to be this year and was injured all the time.He's declining,and he's not the ''go-to guy'' due to injuries and health issues anymore but he's an very valuable part of our club and the Habs need him.No need to put him down.It's a fact.

As for Kovalev,I ask accountability and competition from any Hab player and he delivered this season as he was a big part of our success.I congratulate him for it,but unlike you I don't consider him as a megasuperstar who does it all.You have to admit he's benefitted of fortunate circumstances,one having a excellent centre in Plekanec to play with and a world-class PP to help him.

All in all,I enjoy what both players offer on the table and are definitely important parts of eventual success for this franchise.
I enjoy both players as well, but there's no way Plekanec would have gotten as many points without Kovalev.

And I don't consider Kovalev as a mega-hyper-superstar, but he's a superstar when he plays like he did this year. He just does it all.

PK, PP, 5 on 5, he knows how to pass well, he's a master at stickhandling, he has a lethal wrist shot, a lethal slapper, he can play it physical, he's relatively fast, he's strong, and on the PK he anticipates the plays well. The only weakness that keeps this guy away from being the best player is the NHL is the fact that he just tries to do it all by himself.

When you have a player like Kovalev in your hands, you keep him. He's just perfect for our current situation. Our young Russians learn a lot from him and he is the masterpiece of our team.

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:41 PM
  #129
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I really hope it is gagnon's last aticle

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Old
05-05-2008, 10:56 PM
  #130
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so do I. He looks like a clown right there after Koivu's and Kovalev's comments.

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Old
05-06-2008, 06:42 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Gros Bill View Post
There might be no need per se to move either of them, but there might be an opportunity. Plus, we don't know what really happens in the dressing room or during practice, now do we?
No we don't and neither does Gagnon it would seem. I wonder why Carbo, Muller and Jarvis would choose to play the two together since Gagnon makes it clear that they don't get along? I mean the coaches are with these guys every day and are in the room with them. They see what's going on all the time yet they are such dunces they can't see what a single journalist reports as fact?

I think this story has about as much credibilty as the Gagnon/Mattias debacle of last year. His pride was hurt when he rushed out to scoop everybody else and then could not back up what he said with something called "evidence". Since he looked the complete fool he has had an axe to grind and waits for any reason to dump on Kovy. Whether it is subtle or not it's still dumping on him. Suggesting he raised his game and then disappeared when he lost the C is complete bull. He only compliments Kovy to rip him down and make him appear to be a spoiled selfish brat.

As for his having a bad year last year....so what? That was last year and means nothing. Koivu had a career year last season and we didn't make the playoffs. Without Kovy this year we don't even make the playoffs. This while guys like Higgins and Ryder weren't their best.

Every time Gagnon goes after Kovy he comes of as no better than the Bergerons of the world. When he sticks to hockey and to journalism in particular he's ok but when he reports rumour and his personal biased opinion as fact he is ridiculous.

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05-06-2008, 07:23 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by RushDP View Post
No we don't and neither does Gagnon it would seem. I wonder why Carbo, Muller and Jarvis would choose to play the two together since Gagnon makes it clear that they don't get along?
Countless players don't get along and end up playing on the same line. Brett Hull and Pierre Turgeon, for exemple.

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I think this story has about as much credibilty as the Gagnon/Mattias debacle of last year.
Then it must be credible as it is well-known at this point that this incident was founded.

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Suggesting he raised his game and then disappeared when he lost the C is complete bull.
It did seem to me that Kovalev took charge while wearing the C. He did seem to raise his game. It might have been a coincidence but I don't think it's bull to say that he did raise his game. But feel free to disagree.

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He only compliments Kovy to rip him down and make him appear to be a spoiled selfish brat.
Well, after watching Kovalev his whole career, he does seem like a temperamental, moody, high-maintenance player to me.

Or more bluntly, a spoiled brat.

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As for his having a bad year last year....so what? That was last year and means nothing.
It wasn't bad year. It was an atrocious year. That meant something to most people, especially because Kovalev has been a whimsical player his whole career. He didn't earn half of his paycheck in 06-07. That had to be one of the most shameful performance by a high-profile Hab in the history of the franchise.

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Every time Gagnon goes after Kovy he comes of as no better than the Bergerons of the world. When he sticks to hockey and to journalism in particular he's ok but when he reports rumour and his personal biased opinion as fact he is ridiculous.
Or in other words, you like him when you agree with him but there are certain sacred cows you'd rather not read about

I think chemistry has been a concern in Habs land for many years and thus, it doesn't surprise me that all these rumors float around the team.

I don't think there is any comparison between Bergeron, an outdated hack that isn't in touch with reality, and this Gagnon fellow. His articles are a lot less outrageous than people suggest.

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Old
05-06-2008, 07:31 AM
  #133
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koivu defenders, in this case (cause gagnon did not state koivu WAS the problem, he simply questionned the 2 players being together in the same team) are like parents defending their kid when the teacher calls about him getting into a fight

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Old
05-06-2008, 07:45 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler View Post
Countless players don't get along and end up playing on the same line. Brett Hull and Pierre Turgeon, for exemple.


Brett Hull and just about anyone until he became too old to have the power to make demands. I remember talking to the Dad of one of his C's, albeit a limited engagement, and apparently going back to the bench after not getting him the puck when he wanted it, wasn't much fun. He wasn't paid to be nice though.

I think Kovalev is what they call high maintenance in some ways. This year, being asked to be a difference maker, and to show leadersip, he bought in. You can say they appealed to his pride,ego, whatever but it worked. It was a nice story, you could see the effect when they spoke to the guy, I don't know that he's ever felt better about himself, esp. in Mtl.

So, if in his mind, wearing the C was the culmination of the relationship he had with the team/city this year, well, still a nice story.

They got 10 points from Koivu/Kovalev this year, and that'd be fine next year too, no matter the distribution. If for any reason, the presence of the other in the room disturbs them, they kind of need to get over it. Both seem to be intelligent men, 'like' shouldn't have anything to do with it.

Like I was saying yesterday, I kind of enjoy Gagnon. I just think that he has a bit of a temper, or edge, and h's notlikely toinvie Kovy to his birthday party.

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05-06-2008, 08:47 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Brett Hull and just about anyone until he became too old to have the power to make demands. I remember talking to the Dad of one of his C's, albeit a limited engagement, and apparently going back to the bench after not getting him the puck when he wanted it, wasn't much fun. He wasn't paid to be nice though.

I think Kovalev is what they call high maintenance in some ways. This year, being asked to be a difference maker, and to show leadersip, he bought in. You can say they appealed to his pride,ego, whatever but it worked. It was a nice story, you could see the effect when they spoke to the guy, I don't know that he's ever felt better about himself, esp. in Mtl.

So, if in his mind, wearing the C was the culmination of the relationship he had with the team/city this year, well, still a nice story.

They got 10 points from Koivu/Kovalev this year, and that'd be fine next year too, no matter the distribution. If for any reason, the presence of the other in the room disturbs them, they kind of need to get over it. Both seem to be intelligent men, 'like' shouldn't have anything to do with it.

Like I was saying yesterday, I kind of enjoy Gagnon. I just think that he has a bit of a temper, or edge, and h's notlikely toinvie Kovy to his birthday party.
I just have a hard time buying into this whole Koivu/Kovalev "As the World Turns" saga. Put 25 people in a room and there is a good chance that they will not all get along. Add to that the characters of both players. Both Koivu and Kovy are not you most demonstrative personalities.

As for Gagnon, I also kind of enjoy him. But as I mentioned previously, I wish he would take a page from the Bobby Mac playbook. Less personal gripes, more insight.

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05-06-2008, 08:54 AM
  #136
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koivu defenders, in this case (cause gagnon did not state koivu WAS the problem, he simply questionned the 2 players being together in the same team) are like parents defending their kid when the teacher calls about him getting into a fight
Hard not to when there's been no fight and the teacher is making things up.

But hey, if you think Gagnon has personal gripes, Blanchard makes him look positively objective. BTW, anyone know why they publish him? He's so blatantly out for his own agenda and so clearly ignorant of the facts that I can't believe anybody reads him for anything except the humor value.

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05-06-2008, 10:39 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I do think these 2 don't like each other.It's like if Kovy doesn't try when playing with Saku.Anyways im happy Koivu came back cause we would have probably lost to the Bruins if he didn't
Pure fantasy.

Early in Game 7 versus Boston, the Koivu-Kovalev-Higgins line had some success cycling and generally being dangerous. We CLEARLY saw Koivu and Kovalev give each other a high-five, and there wasn't even a goal!

Koivu and Kovalev on two different lines is generally a good thing, just like Crosby and Malkin being split is generally a good thing.

But they have no problem with each other!

Sheesh

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05-06-2008, 10:50 AM
  #138
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Pure fantasy.

Early in Game 7 versus Boston, the Koivu-Kovalev-Higgins line had some success cycling and generally being dangerous. We CLEARLY saw Koivu and Kovalev give each other a high-five, and there wasn't even a goal!

Koivu and Kovalev on two different lines is generally a good thing, just like Crosby and Malkin being split is generally a good thing.

But they have no problem with each other!

Sheesh
I think they tend to negate each other at times, rather than compliment, but that's just a style thing, not personal. The way the 2 have to adjust may take away from what each does best, but that's just me.

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05-06-2008, 10:53 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I think they tend to negate each other at times, rather than compliment, but that's just a style thing, not personal. The way the 2 have to adjust may take away from what each does best, but that's just me.
The only problem with playing Koivu and Kovalev together is that the league won't allow the game to be played with two pucks. They're both puck possession players which can at times limit or wipe out scoring chances.

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05-06-2008, 10:56 AM
  #140
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The only problem with playing Koivu and Kovalev together is that the league won't allow the game to be played with two pucks. They're both puck possession players which can at times limit or wipe out scoring chances.
Yeah, I thought Kovalev's turn around this year was largely in part to him moving the puck better and his linemates reading and complimenting him better. I always have the impression that while they can force the issue and get a key goal, they just don't move with the puck and away from the puck in the same rhythm, and Higgins gets lost in he mix with the 2 of them, never sure when to go or stay back.

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05-06-2008, 11:05 AM
  #141
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Yeah, I thought Kovalev's turn around this year was largely in part to him moving the puck better and his linemates reading and complimenting him better. I always have the impression that while they can force the issue and get a key goal, they just don't move with the puck and away from the puck in the same rhythm, and Higgins gets lost in he mix with the 2 of them, never sure when to go or stay back.
It's tough generating chemistry when two guys like to control the play and the third man's forte is digging out loose pucks. I can almost sense Higgins wishing that one of Saku or Kovalev would lose the puck so he can have a shot at retrieving it.

In terms of Kovalev's play rebounding this year, I think come credit should go to Plekanec who stopped trying to emulate Alex by stick handling and starting looking for open ice.

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05-06-2008, 11:52 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
It's tough generating chemistry when two guys like to control the play and the third man's forte is digging out loose pucks. I can almost sense Higgins wishing that one of Saku or Kovalev would lose the puck so he can have a shot at retrieving it.

In terms of Kovalev's play rebounding this year, I think come credit should go to Plekanec who stopped trying to emulate Alex by stick handling and starting looking for open ice.
Being able to bury a wrist shot helps a lot too. Plekanec has that dimension that Koivu doesn't. Defence's will always collapse to Kovalev so his C has to be able to finish.

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05-06-2008, 11:59 AM
  #143
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Being able to bury a wrist shot helps a lot too. Plekanec has that dimension that Koivu doesn't. Defence's will always collapse to Kovalev so his C has to be able to finish.
Plekanec is also better than Koivu (IMO) to read the ice and get into the open areas to receive a pass.

Also, I feel Koivu and Kovalev views of offensive plays are totally different. They are sure based on puck control (both like to control the puck), but Kovalev will do it from the high boards and facing the play when possible, waiting for a good opportunity to set up a shot from high slot. Whereas Koivu prefers to start the play down low in the corner, shielding the puck and cycling it until they can get to the front of the net.

My 2 cents.

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Old
05-06-2008, 01:33 PM
  #144
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This guy is a clown !! I had respect for him before the Kovalev and tape scandal, but now he is a Zero to me...

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