HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Dawes, Prucha, Tyutin, Sanguinetti and a First

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-06-2008, 12:19 AM
  #76
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Cherepanov, Tyutin, Dawes, Prucha, 2008 1st, 2009 2nd

Kovalchuck, 2008 2nd

Get it done, Slats!
Not nearly enough.

There is no certainty Cherepanov is coming over until he is inked to a contract--even then Russian players have just jumped ship and returned to Europe before. You're not going to trade the face of your franchise unless you know for sure that the centerpiece will be in uniform.

Prucha? Seems like he had trouble cracking your top six this season.
Dawes? Nice player, but not an impact or elite guy in my opinion.
Tyutin? Another decent complimentary player but not a franchise builder.

To get a 25 year old Kovalchuk signed for two more years at a very reasonable price ($6 cap hit) you're going to have to offer two sure fire franchise building blocks and other picks/prospects. Most of you don't want to talk about Staal but he absolutely would have to be in the conversation.

Go back and look at what other players traded in their peak brought. Gretzky brought Jimmy Carson who was a top 10 scorer and still young at the time.

When Tkachuk was dealt from Phoenix to St. Louis he brought three quality NHL forwards or very strong prospects.

I myself have said that the Thrashers should explore what Kovalchuk would bring--just because they need to expand their base of young talent to build a real contender--but none of these offers entices me. But the Thrashers are not stuck with a traded demand (and even when they were they managed to get Hossa for Heatley which was a very good return for being in a potentially bad situation.)

Look a two month RENTAL of Hossa came at the cost of a 1st rounder, 1st round prospect, 1st round NHL roster player and 3rd round NHL roster player. That's the starting point for trade offers.

Let's face it the price for acquiring a franchise player entering his peak is simply too high for most of you. On the other hand if you're serious Staal and Dubinsky need to enter into the conversation.

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 12:27 AM
  #77
BwayBshirt
Registered User
 
BwayBshirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My NY State of Mind
Country: United States
Posts: 3,374
vCash: 500
i haven't read much of this thread but i'll chime in with a simplistic thought.

if the rangers are gonna do a huge package of assets for a great goal scorer, it would have to be a deadline deal. deadline trades (forsberg notwithstanding) almost always yield less return for the team trading the player than a deal earlier.

once in a blue moon we see utter stupidity like boston with thornton, but otherwise just be patient or go for free agency.

BwayBshirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 12:49 AM
  #78
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
Not nearly enough.

There is no certainty Cherepanov is coming over until he is inked to a contract--even then Russian players have just jumped ship and returned to Europe before. You're not going to trade the face of your franchise unless you know for sure that the centerpiece will be in uniform.

Prucha? Seems like he had trouble cracking your top six this season.
Dawes? Nice player, but not an impact or elite guy in my opinion.
Tyutin? Another decent complimentary player but not a franchise builder.

To get a 25 year old Kovalchuk signed for two more years at a very reasonable price ($6 cap hit) you're going to have to offer two sure fire franchise building blocks and other picks/prospects. Most of you don't want to talk about Staal but he absolutely would have to be in the conversation.

Go back and look at what other players traded in their peak brought. Gretzky brought Jimmy Carson who was a top 10 scorer and still young at the time.

When Tkachuk was dealt from Phoenix to St. Louis he brought three quality NHL forwards or very strong prospects.

I myself have said that the Thrashers should explore what Kovalchuk would bring--just because they need to expand their base of young talent to build a real contender--but none of these offers entices me. But the Thrashers are not stuck with a traded demand (and even when they were they managed to get Hossa for Heatley which was a very good return for being in a potentially bad situation.)

Look a two month RENTAL of Hossa came at the cost of a 1st rounder, 1st round prospect, 1st round NHL roster player and 3rd round NHL roster player. That's the starting point for trade offers.

Let's face it the price for acquiring a franchise player entering his peak is simply too high for most of you. On the other hand if you're serious Staal and Dubinsky need to enter into the conversation.
sanguinetti, dubinsky, callahan, sauer, 1st 08, 1st 09

kovalchuk

and that is a very very good deal for him....

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 12:58 AM
  #79
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
sanguinetti, dubinsky, callahan, sauer, 1st 08, 1st 09

kovalchuk

and that is a very very good deal for him....
take out dubinsky and put in tyutin, prucha and hollweg

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 12:59 AM
  #80
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
if they want dubinsky, then enstrom would have to be included, otherwise, no thanks. dubinsky is a keeper. what other centre do we have that actually plays physical, goes to the net, passes really well, and sticks up for teammates although not great at it, this coming from a rookie is a good thing. we got enough finesse. we need that grit and leadership to get us to the next level..
Are you serious?

Anthony Mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:01 AM
  #81
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
take out dubinsky and put in tyutin, prucha and hollweg
If that is serious, you are out of your mind...quantity =/= quality

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:01 AM
  #82
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
take out dubinsky and put in tyutin, prucha and hollweg
if that will get it done...ok

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:12 AM
  #83
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
if that will get it done...ok
id rather keep dubinsky. we dont have many players with skill size and grit that can play top minutes. we got alot of small wingers like prucha callahan dawes. anisimov is big but i dont know if he is physical or fights. I never seen him play so i cant really judge. id love to snag enstrom. he can help our pp and is from sweden.

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:28 AM
  #84
poeman
Fixing Rangers PP
 
poeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,593
vCash: 500
getting a superstar is not a necessity right now.

Look at how the dallas stars are winning....some would say morrow is a star but they are not stocked up with superstars. having a solid foundation and a system that fits to the teams structure will win you cups.

Obviously our strengths is lundqvist, so continue building out from there..solidify the defense and then add wingers

Only thing im worried about is, in new york players are always under pressure...we need a player who is willing to take this team on its back with all the pressure involved

poeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:35 AM
  #85
Anthony Mauro
DB Hockey
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poeman View Post
getting a superstar is not a necessity right now.

Only thing im worried about is, in new york players are always under pressure...we need a player who is willing to take this team on its back with all the pressure involved
Quite the contradiction, as that player my friend, is a superstar. His name was/is Jaromir Jagr. Are we gonna pass the torch successfully if Jagr leaves or drop it and wait for a few years for someone to pick it up?

Anthony Mauro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:43 AM
  #86
poeman
Fixing Rangers PP
 
poeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Quite the contradiction, as that player my friend, is a superstar. His name was/is Jaromir Jagr. Are we gonna pass the torch successfully if Jagr leaves or drop it and wait for a few years for someone to pick it up?
true i did contradict myself there...i guess im looking for a team that can overlook all the pressure and just capitalize on their strengths and not make mistakes.

kinda like that us olympic hockey team of herb brooks

poeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:48 AM
  #87
Zil
Registered User
 
Zil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poeman View Post
true i did contradict myself there...i guess im looking for a team that can overlook all the pressure and just capitalize on their strengths and not make mistakes.

kinda like that us olympic hockey team of herb brooks
Yeah OK fine, but do you honestly think the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team would've won a seven game series against the Soviets?

Zil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 02:05 AM
  #88
poeman
Fixing Rangers PP
 
poeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Yeah OK fine, but do you honestly think the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team would've won a seven game series against the Soviets?
lol probably not...but they sure were more disciplined

poeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 02:08 AM
  #89
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Do we really need to send that much to acquire a Kovalchuk or Gaborik?

I mean, Joe Thornton was acquired for Wayne Primeau, Marco Sturm, and Brad Stuart. Marian Hossa was acquired for a 1st rounder, Colby Armstrong, and Erik Christensen, and Angelo Esposito.

I know Gabo and Kovalchuk are on a tier higher, but it does seem you would need that much more to get them.

GothamRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 02:20 AM
  #90
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
take out dubinsky and put in tyutin, prucha and hollweg
Pass from the Atlanta side.
I have no interest in Hollweg.
Prucha is just a spare part at this point.

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 09:08 AM
  #91
TheHotRock
Registered User
 
TheHotRock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: nyc
Country: United States
Posts: 2,177
vCash: 500
i hope the line about hollweg was a joke. he's the kind of guy you'd h ave to package with a draft pick just to get a team to take him.

TheHotRock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 09:13 AM
  #92
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post
Do we really need to send that much to acquire a Kovalchuk or Gaborik?

I mean, Joe Thornton was acquired for Wayne Primeau, Marco Sturm, and Brad Stuart. Marian Hossa was acquired for a 1st rounder, Colby Armstrong, and Erik Christensen, and Angelo Esposito.

I know Gabo and Kovalchuk are on a tier higher, but it does seem you would need that much more to get them.
Brad Stuart would be equal to an underachieving Marc Staal, Sturm and Primeau are no slouches either. The Hossa deal was for renting Hossa for the remainder of the regular season and the playoffs. So they gave up 2 roster players, a good prospect and a 1st for a guy who could conceivably only play for them for 3 months.

I'd do Staal in the deal, but only if we were getting Enstrom in return. Staal leaves too big of a hole on our blue line to sacrifice for just Kovalchuk coming back. But even that idea scares me.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 09:21 AM
  #93
bumrusherer
Registered User
 
bumrusherer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,820
vCash: 500
Personally, I would rather keep the depth that those guys will offer us. Now isnt the time to become desperate for a quick fix because there are plenty of teams in this league that have a superstar player ( 2 superstars in some cases ) and did not come close to making the playoffs.

Youth and depth is the key to consistent year after year success, IMO.

bumrusherer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 11:36 AM
  #94
Mason530
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
We have to sign Vally too, right?

Liles (3.0mil), Stuart (3.5 mil), Rolston (2.5mil), Huselius (4.0mil), Jagr (5.20 mil), Avery (3 mil), Vally (800k)

Fill the last defensive spot with Potter/Baranka.

I dunno. It's my first stab at trying to figure out salaries.

My only thing is that we'd have nothing left to sign Gaborik on the open market, unless we only signed JJ for 1 year.

Huselius - Dubi - Jagr
Dawes/Avery - Gomez - Rolston
Korpedo - Drury - Avery/Dawes
Callahan - Betts - Orr / Sjostrom

Staal - Liles
Stuart - Potter
Girardi - Tyutin
Backman (lets take up a collection to buy him out. )
Huselius is an interesting name. I have been thinking about that. He plays the same east-west game. He and Jagr can cycle until the cows come home. If I am correct, he also QB PP back in the Panthers days??

Mason530 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 11:49 AM
  #95
Mason530
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
sanguinetti, dubinsky, callahan, sauer, 1st 08, 1st 09

kovalchuk

and that is a very very good deal for him....
When NHL uses salary cap, trades like above are simply not reasonable. Team must strike a balance among cap space, talents and depth. Bringing in a big star would set back a team for a few years because it takes time to reconfigure the cap and replenish the farm. That's why you don't see big trades happen often to teams in leagues with salary cap. While they do still take place, most of them are not working out, repeat most of them. Look at Shaq and Kidd in NBA. You can forget about PHX and DAL for a while. Or, look at Cowboys or Redskins, teams that often make big trades and sign big free agents, they don't win. NE Pats (though I am a Giants fan) constantly let vets walk away or trade them away for future picks. This way, they always add talent and depth to the team.

Mason530 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 12:06 PM
  #96
GarretJoseph*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,604
vCash: 500
If the Mets can get Santana for hardly anything IMO, the Rangers can sure get Kovy or Gabs for just as much or less. Kovy is in a contract year anyway coming up. I met him at the Garden this season, he was sitting behind me in the Brian Leetch Retirement game where he was suspended from the previous game (which happened to be against the Rangers too)

I'd do it for Kovy.

GarretJoseph* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:48 PM
  #97
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
If the Mets can get Santana for hardly anything IMO, the Rangers can sure get Kovy or Gabs for just as much or less.
Poweful logic there. "In another sport, another GM in a completley different situation made a bad decision, therefore our GM in our sport should be able to do even better!"

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 01:51 PM
  #98
GarretJoseph*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,604
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
Poweful logic there. "In another sport, another GM in a completley different situation made a bad decision, therefore our GM in our sport should be able to do even better!"
At least I can spell.

GarretJoseph* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 02:15 PM
  #99
Enstrom39
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
At least I can spell.
I have spell check, do you have logic check?

Enstrom39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-06-2008, 02:25 PM
  #100
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
id rather keep dubinsky. we dont have many players with skill size and grit that can play top minutes. we got alot of small wingers like prucha callahan dawes. anisimov is big but i dont know if he is physical or fights. I never seen him play so i cant really judge. id love to snag enstrom. he can help our pp and is from sweden.
If you want to land a world class player you can't expect someone to take your spare parts. If you want to take Staal off the table, just about everyone else has to be part of the discussion. 17 Hollwegs doesn't = 1 Kovalchuk.

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.