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Number Crunching For '09: Are We Screwed?

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Old
05-05-2008, 04:42 PM
  #76
bcrt2000
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- I think we need to give Prucha one last shot at a big offensive role next season, and the other kids need a chance too (Korpi, Dawes, Anisimov).

- Bring back Jagr because with him we've established a good culture in the room (over the last 3 years the only problem we've ever had is Aaron Ward). Also, with the departure of Shanahan, if we let Jagr go and sign Avery, then chaos could happen in the room. I also have to believe that Jagr will be much cheaper than Hossa or any other replacement, and over the last 2 head to head playoff series between Jagr and Hossa, I believe Jagr has outperformed Hossa. Hossa had a lot more weapons to work with than Jagr too. Remember that goals were so hard to come by early in the season. Jagr seems to have started to click with Dubinsky, so I think his offense will be better next season, and I think Dubinsky has learned a lot from Jagr, and will continue to do so if Jagr stays. Getting rid of Jagr is just change for the sake of change IMO.

- I think a good solution to getting Jagr under contract for a cheap cap hit is to front-load his deal. For example, if he wants 4 years, $20M. Give him 2 extra years at the end of the contract at minimum salary so that the cap hit is $3.5M per year instead of $5M per year, and he can retire at the end of the 4th year (or if hes playing badly we can force him to retire by putting the contract in hartford) so that we don't get the cap hit for the last two years. And I think you can lower that cap hit even more (if hes not performing well) by making it a bonus based contract.

- Valley is a reliable backup. Hes won some big games for us. I'd bring him back as long as he wants to be here. And if we play him more early on next season (so that other GMs are exposed to how good this guy is) we could turn him into a bargaining chip down the road.

- We need a PP QB at D. Well, at least thats the way it seems from a casual observation. Its also possible that Renney and co. didn't draw up a good PP strategy. I don't know if Nylander was the one that made the PP click, but they were light years better last season (especially in that Atlanta series). We also need someone more physical than Malik/Rozi.

- If Jagr stays, we need to get someone who can play with Dubi/Jagr at LW. Straka has lost his hands. If he buried half the chances Jagr set him up with throughout the series, there would be a Game 6 tonight. Now theres a chance that one of the kids can fill that role, but I think that was by far the biggest thing missing from this Rangers team. Also, if we can find a fit this would probably help our PP as well.

- Bring back Avery only if you can solve the above problems and be under the cap.

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Old
05-05-2008, 04:45 PM
  #77
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Avery - Dubinsky - Jagr
Ryder - Gomez - Dawes
Drury - Anisimov - Korpikoski
Callahan - Betts - Sjostrom

Rozsival - Staal
Tyutin - Girardi
Orpik - Potter

Lundqvist

Let Hillier, Cherepanov, and Sanguinetti develop. They are going to be very good players.

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05-05-2008, 05:36 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Avery - Dubinsky - Jagr
Ryder - Gomez - Dawes
Drury - Anisimov - Korpikoski
Callahan - Betts - Sjostrom

Rozsival - Staal
Tyutin - Girardi
Orpik - Potter

Lundqvist

Let Hillier, Cherepanov, and Sanguinetti develop. They are going to be very good players.
How on Earth do we fit Jagr, Avery, Ryder, Rozsival, and Orpik under the cap?

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05-05-2008, 06:07 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
How on Earth do we fit Jagr, Avery, Ryder, Rozsival, and Orpik under the cap?
Easily...we have roughly $36 million committed to players for next year, which makes for 20 million in cap room to wiggle with.

Jagr-6 million
Avery-4 million
Ryder-3 million
Rozsival-4.5 million (any more and he can take a walk, same with Avery)
Orpik-2.5 million

That's 20 million right there. I even doubt that Jagr or Avery will get what I said.

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05-05-2008, 06:14 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomez to Jagr View Post
Easily...we have roughly $36 million committed to players for next year, which makes for 20 million in cap room to wiggle with.

Jagr-6 million
Avery-4 million
Ryder-3 million
Rozsival-4.5 million (any more and he can take a walk, same with Avery)
Orpik-2.5 million

That's 20 million right there. I even doubt that Jagr or Avery will get what I said.
I feel like some dumb GM is going to offer Rozsival a bigger payday then that. Ditto that for Orpik.

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05-05-2008, 06:17 PM
  #81
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people want Rolston who's 35 and stats have been declining 2 yrs straight. Or Ryder who was benched most of the year. or prospal. or Malone who still isn't putting up great 3 #'s w/ Crosby.
You've got be realistic about the budget. These players are an on-ice gamble for sure, but come with a fraction of the commitment and compensation that Hossa will surely command. Some of the holes in the lineup will just have to be filled this way.

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05-05-2008, 07:15 PM
  #82
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I'm very dissapointed in the short term thinking I am reading. The biggest problem with this team is that we were eithe rveyr young or very old. We may have to take a step back to take a step forward in order to incorporate more kids into the lineup. The packages to dump ANY of our younger players (with the exception of Prucha) are ridiculous.

Griardi is only a second year player. Staal is a rookie. Dawes is a rookie. Dubi is a rookie. We have no idea what they really are yet. Only one way to find out.

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05-05-2008, 07:19 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
I'm very dissapointed in the short term thinking I am reading. The biggest problem with this team is that we were eithe rveyr young or very old. We may have to take a step back to take a step forward in order to incorporate more kids into the lineup. The packages to dump ANY of our younger players (with the exception of Prucha) are ridiculous.

Griardi is only a second year player. Staal is a rookie. Dawes is a rookie. Dubi is a rookie. We have no idea what they really are yet. Only one way to find out.
Yeah, but I don't want to hear people complaining next May when we get dumped in the 1st or 2nd round with a roster full of rookies. IF we make the playoffs at all.

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Old
05-05-2008, 07:37 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Yeah, but I don't want to hear people complaining next May when we get dumped in the 1st or 2nd round with a roster full of rookies. IF we make the playoffs at all.
agreed.....heres my thoughts:

1) the rangers organization has a lot of 3rd and 4th liners who are ready for the nhl and are taking up playing time for the younger kids coming in....

2) without the likes of jagr, straka and shanahan on the team and with the likely departure of malik, the oldest player on the team would be drury at 32.....

3) within the next 2-3 years the rangers will have too many players most likely ready for the nhl or in the nhl:
bourret
anisimov
drury
gomez
byers
callahan
dawes
korpikoski
cheraponov
pyatt(possibly)
jessiman(possibly)
dupont(possibly)
.........and thats just on forward

it seems like there will need to be a big deal for some high end scoring because the rangers just have too many players who will need that playing time to become as good as possible

4) the rangers have very few high-end players in their organization(staal, sanguinetti, cheraponov, gomez)......

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05-05-2008, 07:43 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
How on Earth do we fit Jagr, Avery, Ryder, Rozsival, and Orpik under the cap?
Cap is supposed to rise to about 56 mil next season.

Consider all the players coming off the books, and the cheap young players i suggested that we add... i think it is doable.

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05-05-2008, 07:45 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
I'm very dissapointed in the short term thinking I am reading. The biggest problem with this team is that we were eithe rveyr young or very old. We may have to take a step back to take a step forward in order to incorporate more kids into the lineup. The packages to dump ANY of our younger players (with the exception of Prucha) are ridiculous.

Griardi is only a second year player. Staal is a rookie. Dawes is a rookie. Dubi is a rookie. We have no idea what they really are yet. Only one way to find out.
im more than willing to take the step backwards to take a step forward, but i think youre wrong on the trade front.

Nobody is proposing trading our kids for old players, hell not even for in the prime of their career players.

were all talking about guys like Gaborik, Hossa, Nash, etc. Guys who are already elite, and havent even hit their prime yet.

If those guys are available, YOU MAKE THOSE TRADES.

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05-05-2008, 07:50 PM
  #87
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im more than willing to take the step backwards to take a step forward, but i think youre wrong on the trade front.

Nobody is proposing trading our kids for old players, hell not even for in the prime of their career players.

were all talking about guys like Gaborik, Hossa, Nash, etc. Guys who are already elite, and havent even hit their prime yet.

If those guys are available, YOU MAKE THOSE TRADES.
agreed, as i stated above the rangers have TONS of very good prospects.....prospects who are mostly borderline 2nd and 3rd liners.....some who are a bit better and some who are a bit worse but moreso in that category....the rangers need to trade some of them because there will not be room for them all and the system will become backed up so as the newly drafted players will not be able to get minutes and the organization will go downhill......i know so many people say quantity does not equal quality, but there are some trades like that and i think the rangers need to be the quantity in that equation for at least a good player(maybe not a superstar)

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05-06-2008, 12:07 AM
  #88
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To be honest guys, I am torn. I love Jagr he is an awesome player but on the other hand he is that last remaining tie to our old woeful FA days, granted he was the only one left after it ended. If Jagr stays I wouldn't be mad any means, but if he doesn't return it would basically be the turning of the page. This team has come along ways in the last 3 years and I wan't to see that continue. Wouldn't be dissapointed if we traded for a franchise type winger and built around that.

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05-06-2008, 10:52 AM
  #89
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I was just throwing a line up together at work, and under my lineup I let Jagr, Shanny, Straka, Roszival and the rest of them walk, resign Avery and sign Ryder, Langkow, and Orpik....what would you say to this?

Avery-Gomez-Ryder
Langkow-Dubinsky-Dawes
Korp-Drury-Callahan
Byers-Betts-Orr

Orpik-Staal
Tyutin-Girardi
Potter-Backman(ugh)

My concern (apart from the obvious concerns of money, and actually getting everyone to sign) with this lineup is that it doesnt address our size on the wings, but i think it provides good scoring and depth and it adresses some problems on D.

Blast away...

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05-06-2008, 10:56 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
im more than willing to take the step backwards to take a step forward, but i think youre wrong on the trade front.

Nobody is proposing trading our kids for old players, hell not even for in the prime of their career players.

were all talking about guys like Gaborik, Hossa, Nash, etc. Guys who are already elite, and havent even hit their prime yet.

If those guys are available, YOU MAKE THOSE TRADES.
now why would the other team trade them unless cap problems or due to upcoming rfa/ ufa status???

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05-06-2008, 10:58 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
I'm very dissapointed in the short term thinking I am reading. The biggest problem with this team is that we were eithe rveyr young or very old. We may have to take a step back to take a step forward in order to incorporate more kids into the lineup. The packages to dump ANY of our younger players (with the exception of Prucha) are ridiculous.

Griardi is only a second year player. Staal is a rookie. Dawes is a rookie. Dubi is a rookie. We have no idea what they really are yet. Only one way to find out.
yea so lets deal them before there value gets low like prucha teams can win and rebuild at the same time, look at the wings and stars.

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05-06-2008, 11:14 AM
  #92
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first how the hell do you number crunch for 09? the salary cap went up 5 million this season, how much more is it going to go up? you have no idea..

second malone does not play with crosby, so no guys he doesnt even put numbers up playing with sidney crosby.. he does put numbers up playing with malkin..

i think ryder would be a good player to get, and for 2 million bucks its worth it.. he is in the same spot jagr was with washington, he isnt playing well at all, fans hate him, coaches hate him, reports that when he is in the press box he doesnt even watch the games.. he has given up on the habs, but they gave up on him too..

ryder plus gomez is good


oh and drury and gomez signings werent bad.. i mean seriously, would you rather have daniel briere at 7 million or drury? its the free agent market, 30 teams are bidding for you, your salary goes up.. hossa is going to get the league max this off season, no ****ing way the rangers touch this guy.. i forgot he was even on the penguins..

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05-06-2008, 12:46 PM
  #93
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(Ryder) is in the same spot jagr was with washington, he isnt playing well at all, fans hate him, coaches hate him, reports that when he is in the press box he doesnt even watch the games..

Sounds like our guy

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05-06-2008, 01:08 PM
  #94
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Last year at the post season meetings. The assesment was the Rangers were not strong enough down the middle and they desperatly needed a real upgrade on the blue line.

The term IMAPACT player was thrown around. A PP QB... etc

The consensus was that the Rangers needed to sign one of last Julys juicey UFA centers and an IMPACT D man.

Well they signed TWO of the three best C's that were available. I dont think that was the plan, but the option presented itself and Sather pulled the trigger. Remember last UFA day minutes aapart the reports Gomez signing and than Drury!!! We were all like Whaaaaaaaa? Is that possible?

Sure but we saw the unexpected departure of Nylander and we never got the Impact D man, although Sourey sure was a curiously staunch holdout before signing in Edmonton.


I think last years game plan was Gomez/Drury/Briere and Sourey, but Sather saw something develop and went with his gut...


The point is, so much can happen between now and July 1st


Look at the moves the Flyers made last year PRE July 1st. The Hartnell/Timmo C0ckblock move prior to July 1st.

That was a badass move and look where it got them. Along with some real heart and hard work.


I've been impressed with Sather not dealing away any of the talented youth. Refreshing and I think we all agree, basically smart for the team....

But there is a point where those players are worth more as chips than as developing prospects behind developing prospects.

It could very well be time for a significant deal to be made, and that would change everything going into July 1st


Needs:

1. Re-sign Jagr and Avery

2. Imapct D man, upgrades on blueline in general imo

3. Fast bona fide sniper for Gomez


Drury with the kids is going to be $$$$ imo

If Shanny can wrap his HOF mind around the reality that he needs to ease into a new role to continue in the NHL than yea...

He's still great on the PK and his veteran leadership is very valuable . But he has to step down to the bottom 6 imo. Would LOVE him on the 4th line that rolls every night with Betts and Sjo. We lose some physical presence on those nights but would gain some scoringthreat on the 4th line.


Than again if Sather cant sign Jagr.... well than....aaaaaaaa

How do you replace him? His scoring, minutes, leadership, mojo?

VERY VERY VERY difficult to do.....

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05-06-2008, 01:58 PM
  #95
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i would love for the rangers to trade for suter from nashville or pitkanen from edm.....and then turn around and trade for antropov from TO to play with gomez if jagr leaves....those two moves would make the rangers a threat in the east for a long time as both players are still young and are very good...plus they have size and hit

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