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Old
05-06-2008, 06:14 AM
  #101
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
We might have to live with a pretty imperfect team next year so that we can lay the groundwork for the future.
Elsewhere you wrote that you think this Rangers team reminds you of the Cup winning Rangers team. How can these two statements both be true?

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05-06-2008, 08:23 AM
  #102
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Korpi should be a 3rd liner. Putting him at 4th makes the line up lack of punch. Leave Sjostrom-Betts-Orr alone. Time to move Prucha. Resign Avery and Jagr. Add Malone on 2nd line with Gomez.

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05-06-2008, 09:06 AM
  #103
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Its simple.

Callahan = 3rd line

Korpi > Callahan

Korpi = 3rd line.

Look at that guys!

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05-06-2008, 09:54 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
Its simple.

Callahan = 3rd line

Korpi > Callahan

Korpi = 3rd line.

Look at that guys!
And this is based off of one NHL game?

I thought the kid looked good too, but come on guys. Can we temper our expectations until he plays, I dunno, three games against NHL competition?

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05-06-2008, 10:07 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
I thought the kid looked good too, but come on guys. Can we temper our expectations until he plays, I dunno, three games against NHL competition?

well said, this whole thread is based on one game. let's see if he makes the team next year.

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05-06-2008, 10:59 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Elsewhere you wrote that you think this Rangers team reminds you of the Cup winning Rangers team. How can these two statements both be true?
What team reminds him of the cup team? Next years team is not this years team. This team is a mix of veterans and youth, and next year a lot of the vets could be elsewhere or retired, Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, Roszival...

Depending on what the organization does (or does not do) in the offseason, we could be looking at a solid playoff team or a lottery team.

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05-06-2008, 11:02 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
What team reminds him of the cup team? Next years team is not this years team. This team is a mix of veterans and youth, and next year a lot of the vets could be elsewhere or retired, Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, Roszival...

Depending on what the organization does (or does not do) in the offseason, we could be looking at a solid playoff team or a lottery team.
I believe he said that this year's team reminds him of the Cup winning team but here he says it is a rebuilding team. Maybe I read it wrong and I'm too lazy to look it up.

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05-06-2008, 11:35 AM
  #108
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Both statements can be true...

this team was built to win the Cup this year with many of the players possibly riding off into the sunset. As well, this year's team borrowed from next season's team (in terms of cap dollars), another sign of the run. They did rely heavily on vets, some of whom didn't pull through and go into next season with some question marks.

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05-06-2008, 11:39 AM
  #109
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McRanger..

isn't that crazy? Solid lottery pick team or a contender. What a fine line. I'll keep saying it - nothing will be known until Jagr makes up his mind (and Sather on the Jagr issue). The scary part is he likely cannot be effective for an entire season and then have anything left for the playoffs (he basically has said this) - so even if he returns, what are the Rangers really getting? And if he doesn't return - there's a huge void on the top line wing - whereby this team essentially doesn't have one, and second line wings are really best-suited as third line wings and thus we'd be looking at a huge void. It does open the door for free agency, but there's only so many free agents who can be brought in successfully, not to mention the financial aspect.

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05-06-2008, 11:54 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
this team was built to win the Cup this year with many of the players possibly riding off into the sunset. As well, this year's team borrowed from next season's team (in terms of cap dollars), another sign of the run. They did rely heavily on vets, some of whom didn't pull through and go into next season with some question marks.
I believe that Edge was saying that this year's team reminded him of the team the year before they won the Cup. That's why it doesn't make any sense to me.

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05-06-2008, 12:03 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
isn't that crazy? Solid lottery pick team or a contender. What a fine line. I'll keep saying it - nothing will be known until Jagr makes up his mind (and Sather on the Jagr issue). The scary part is he likely cannot be effective for an entire season and then have anything left for the playoffs (he basically has said this) - so even if he returns, what are the Rangers really getting? And if he doesn't return - there's a huge void on the top line wing - whereby this team essentially doesn't have one, and second line wings are really best-suited as third line wings and thus we'd be looking at a huge void. It does open the door for free agency, but there's only so many free agents who can be brought in successfully, not to mention the financial aspect.
It is nuts. Its not all on the Rangers though either, I think the rise in parity of the league has a lot to do with it too. I think next years team, even with the vets gone, can be better in a lot of respects. Drury and Gomez both took time adjusting to playing for us, and if healthy could have more productive years. Staal will be a year older, a year better, and probably will log huge minutes. Lundqvist still hasn't hit his prime. If we can avoid the huge slumps and continue to play the kind of team defense we played a lot of the year, I think we can be a playoff team even without all the vets I mentioned earlier. If we struggle, it could be brutal. The biggest factor will be if Jagr comes back and if not, who do we replace him with, if we replace him at all. I do not think the team will feel the effects of losing Straka, Shanahan and Roszy as much as they look like they would on paper.

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05-06-2008, 12:17 PM
  #112
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Without vets...

I'm a bit skeptical that Gomez and Drury can carry the load. Gomez played very well this season and did carry the load - but that's easier to do when Jagr's out there for 20 minutes per night, and it is a bit easier when Shanny's around, even if he's not all that productive. Further, I look at the kids that excelled last year - in particular Cally and Dawes - and I think no Jagr, Shanny or Straka - and these guys become top six forwards all of the sudden, perhaps even one on a 'top' line, and that's scary. They're nice players, but I think they need to be more in the background to succeed than in the foreground. Cally may be able to net 15 goals, but I think it has to be against third defense pairings from the third line. The potential for offense next season scares me.

On defense - I don't know if there really is a true shutdown unit - unless a defensive defenseman comes in to be paired with Staal and Staal doesn't have a sophomore slump. But of course this team also needs an offenseman/PP point guy.

I'm excited to see how it shapes up, but at the same time a bit scared as much of what may be needed for next season won't come from within. There isn't an impact d-man down on the farm, nor is there an impact forward (NHL third liners at best right now).

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05-06-2008, 12:19 PM
  #113
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I'm even more confused now...

since before I thought your wrote Cup-winning team and now it's the team the year before. I'll stay out of this one for now since I can't make much sense of that one. This team reminded me more of the 96-97 team that ultimately went on to...let's not talk about that one too much...

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05-06-2008, 12:50 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm a bit skeptical that Gomez and Drury can carry the load. Gomez played very well this season and did carry the load - but that's easier to do when Jagr's out there for 20 minutes per night, and it is a bit easier when Shanny's around, even if he's not all that productive. Further, I look at the kids that excelled last year - in particular Cally and Dawes - and I think no Jagr, Shanny or Straka - and these guys become top six forwards all of the sudden, perhaps even one on a 'top' line, and that's scary. They're nice players, but I think they need to be more in the background to succeed than in the foreground. Cally may be able to net 15 goals, but I think it has to be against third defense pairings from the third line. The potential for offense next season scares me.

On defense - I don't know if there really is a true shutdown unit - unless a defensive defenseman comes in to be paired with Staal and Staal doesn't have a sophomore slump. But of course this team also needs an offenseman/PP point guy.

I'm excited to see how it shapes up, but at the same time a bit scared as much of what may be needed for next season won't come from within. There isn't an impact d-man down on the farm, nor is there an impact forward (NHL third liners at best right now).
I do no think anyone will have to "carry the load" so to speak. I think the team, void of any real superstars up front, will look for more wide-spread offensive production. The Rangers were the tied for 23rd in team scoring last year, that shouldn't be hard to duplicate. Same goes for defense. We had a mediocre unit that got by on playing good team defense and Lundqvist. I think the goaltending and defense will be better next year, especially if we find one decent defender to pair with Staal. Personally I have never been impressed with Roszival defensively (or offensively), I think his decision making at critical times is brutal and I will be happy when I do not have to see anymore of his needless reversing behind the net when under pressure and painful insistence on forcing the puck to Jagr, especially on the PP.

Considering how the team played this year: months of no scoring, a mediocre D corp, Lundqvists stretches of bad play etc., and where we eventually ended up, I don't see why a younger, faster and hungrier team led by Gomez, Drury, Lundqvist and the kids can't make the playoffs and find some success. You really don't even need thinks to all break the right way for it to happen. And all that is assuming Jagr and co. leave and we do not replace them via UFA or trade.

As for impact players, I think Cherepanov, Anisimov and Bobby Sangs qualify, unless you mean for next year.

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05-06-2008, 01:09 PM
  #115
chosen
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Fletch

This is the Edge post I'm referring to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
This team's success certainly rests with it's young talent. Having said that, you still need veteran wingman who are going to score.

Even if Jagr is "only" a 25 goal, 75 point player at this point. That's still our leading scorer right there.

I'm not opposed to having Shanahan back, however he and the team would have to accept that he's not a go-to offensive guy anymore. If he the price is right, I would welcome him back. Look no further than Gary Roberts in Pittsburgh to see the kind of role Shanahan could play.

I probably wouldn't bring Straka back. I'd try to bring Rozy back.

I think the real key is in two areas. Increasing the production from the bottom two lines and upgrading the defense, especially with a guy who can man the powerplay.

Guys like Staal, Dubinsky, Dawes, Lundqvist should only get better. But this team still needs some older support guys.

I think Betts could put up more points if Sjostrom/Byers plays on his line next season. I don't think 10 goals and 20 points is out of the question for him. He's not just going to hit that with Hollweg and Orr as his linemates.

There are quite a few salaries coming off the books this season. It's going to be about using that money/space wisely.

I can't help but feel this team is in a very similar situation to where they were before 93-94. There's a lot of young talent, some vets who will bridge the gap. But I don't think this team is quite "there" yet. But with the right moves, they could be pretty quickly.

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05-06-2008, 01:10 PM
  #116
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They were 23rd...

and that was with Jagr (who does more than just score - he takes the focus of other teams away from other players, even when not producing). Without Jagr, and even Shanny and Straka, if that's where this team ends up, you're talking about third liners as second and first liners, quite possibly, and you're asking them to do more than they were doing previously. Obviously a name like Hossa comes in if Jagr, Shanny and Straka are gone, so that would help immensely (in other words, I do think you need the name - this team does need the 30+ proven goal scorer because the depth of 20+ goal scorers may not be there currently).

As for impact - I'm thinking for next season. The others are a still a couple years away from making an impact.

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05-06-2008, 01:16 PM
  #117
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Ah...

thanks Chosen - I can't speak for Edge, but perhaps he's talking about the current team as it stands for the 2008/2009 team - which has some youth that's not quite ripe and others on the farm that are budding but not ready, which is similar to the early 90s. Of course, there was also Leetch, Mess and Graves in their prime (as well as Richter, but at least the Rangers have Lundqvist now - they don't have a Leetch, Mess or Graves entering their prime).

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05-06-2008, 02:42 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
and that was with Jagr (who does more than just score - he takes the focus of other teams away from other players, even when not producing). Without Jagr, and even Shanny and Straka, if that's where this team ends up, you're talking about third liners as second and first liners, quite possibly, and you're asking them to do more than they were doing previously. Obviously a name like Hossa comes in if Jagr, Shanny and Straka are gone, so that would help immensely (in other words, I do think you need the name - this team does need the 30+ proven goal scorer because the depth of 20+ goal scorers may not be there currently).

As for impact - I'm thinking for next season. The others are a still a couple years away from making an impact.
I don't think you would get any less offense out of the team next year if you roll the 2 other lines (that are actually effective) more minutes as opposed to forcing Jagr's line out there when its clearly not working, which is what was done a lot of the year at both even strength and especially on the PP. As I said, even with Jagr the team generated little offense and I don't see why the terrible numbers can't be repeated as guys like Gomez and Drury will not take 2 months to get accustomed to playing with teammates and the kids should be a year better. They should be a faster team next year, and as always they rely on other things to win, specifically team defense and Lundqvist. As long as the team plays defense like it did last year and Lundqvist plays solid all year long, I am not too concerned. They may not be true contenders, but they should be a playoff team. And again, all of that is assuming Jagr does not come back (which he might), or he is replaced via free agency or a trade.

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05-06-2008, 03:06 PM
  #119
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Let's hope...

I guess I don't think there's a lot of firepower there and have Jagr play 20 minutes per game, and even having Shanny take up minutes, actually allowed guys like Dawes and Cally to get some points. Further, I don't think Drury and Gomez can handle the load as 'THE' guys. I think they're more along the lines of support guys which would suggest the importance of who is brought in. And let me clarify that lsat statement: Gomez doesn't get 70 points with his top wingers being Avery and Cally. He gets closer to 50. Of course Cally won't be his right winger, so that's what we'll have to wait and see on.

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05-06-2008, 03:40 PM
  #120
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this all fails to account for the decent (not quite strong) possibility that Ani is ready at the start or around the beginning of next season... can't say that i have a problem with a logjam of young guys and trouble finding where to fit them. But... if Ani does earn a spot its going to be from him showing FULL NHL readiness IMMEDIATELY in camp, which is going to push one of callahan, dawes, korpikoski, whomever down to the 3rd and in some instances 4th line duty. If that's the case, we might be facing an overloaded roster of young guys which is why i agree with whoever said that these guys should all be "dawesed" in, to guarantee that when they're HERE, they're HERE to stay and that their spot if solidified. No sense juggling three lines of youth right off the bat - the call for veterans to be evenly dispersed carries some significant weight. THEREFORE, might make sense to keep Hollweg on the roster as a placeholder, while not giving the spot to some UFA veteran just for the sake of filling a hole

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05-06-2008, 08:51 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
And this is based off of one NHL game?

I thought the kid looked good too, but come on guys. Can we temper our expectations until he plays, I dunno, three games against NHL competition?
I hate putting numbers on players. If certain players mesh well together whether one is projected as a first line player and another is a 3rd line player so be it. Chemistry is more important than the number of a line.

Two years ago Buffalo was real good because they had 4 lines that could play.

I would like to get to that type of Balance.

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05-06-2008, 08:59 PM
  #122
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I hate putting numbers on players. If certain players mesh well together whether one is projected as a first line player and another is a 3rd line player so be it. Chemistry is more important than the number of a line.

Two years ago Buffalo was real good because they had 4 lines that could play.

I would like to get to that type of Balance.
+1

I think we can have a similar team to last years Sabres (A mix of great leaders with hardworking younger up and comers)... The only big differences are we might not score as much as them, but we'll have better D and a Top 3 Goaltender...

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05-06-2008, 09:01 PM
  #123
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First off, we're not back to two rookies on the fourth line which says nothing about having Dawes, Korpikoski and Callahan on the roster. Three guys who haven't even played a full NHL schedule yet. That also doesn't include Dubinsky and his 80 some odd games of experience and a defense that is going to feature one player with one season under his belt and (according to your roster) another rookie.

That's about 8 guys or almost half of our roster who hasn't even played 100 NHL games. Even for the baby corps Oilers of the mid-90's that would be a leap.

Secondly, if you're looking for a fourth line banger with some pop. Byers is your guy with the inside track there. Better fighter. Better scorer. Better checker. Two years younger.

Finally, we're putting all of our eggs into a basket in which guys haven't even won a spot out of camp first. That's a huge roll of the dice in and of itself.

Not only are we prematurely putting guys in places they haven't won yet, in some cases we're promoting the guy who sits comfortably as the number three or four option over the higher ranking guys simply based on where he was drafted half a decade ago.

I know you dont want a young line up however, if Jags leaves, I dont want to see a Rolston or a Ryder as our first line RW(even though I hate numbers on players).

I would rather spend 8 million dollars a year and get one All Star winger and rely on the Yutes to fill out my line up than get 2 or 3 journeyman.

In a cap world you have to make choices. If I were the Architect of this team I would rather get Hossa and Campbell and fill the rest of the lineup w/our Yutes.

Look how good Edmonton played at the end. It was there Yutes that almost carried the Oilers to the Post Season

Korpi 2 years minors
Byers 2 years minors
Jessiman 3 years minors
Potter 2 years minors and 4 years college
Baranka 3 years minors

These are not players fresh out of Juniors. We have developed them. Now lets enjoy the fruit.

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05-06-2008, 09:27 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Elsewhere you wrote that you think this Rangers team reminds you of the Cup winning Rangers team. How can these two statements both be true?
I mean morso in the years before the cup, figure around the 89-90 or 90-91 teams.

Not so much the 92-93 team

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05-06-2008, 09:52 PM
  #125
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I mean morso in the years before the cup, figure around the 89-90 or 90-91 teams.

Not so much the 92-93 team
The current team will be 92-93 when they get Gaborik or Kovalchuck on the team in a year or 2.

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