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05-07-2008, 11:14 AM
  #101
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
Because this team just committed large money for 5+ years to three players (Drury, Gomez, Lundqvist.) In the short term, the Rangers can afford to pay Jagr 5-6 mil, but if you keep giving out these big longterm contracts, you're going to get squeezed when the Staals and Dubinskys of the world hit restricted free agency.


If you give Hossa 7.5 millions for 7 years, then 3 years from now you will have around 28 million tied up in 4 players. It's not smart cap management.
not if the cap keeps jumping up like it has been. Realistically we can sign Hossa and not be screwed cap wise, as long as we keep drafting well and singing good deals. Which means that we have to lock up our RFA's early to keep costs down low, and stay away from Shanny type contracts. Also remember Drury is only on for 4 more years not for a full 7. The cap is jumping up what 4-6mil this season. That would anywhere from half to 3/4 of a Hossa salary, in 1 year.

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05-07-2008, 11:22 AM
  #102
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With zero top-6 wingers in the fold, signing Jagr is an absolute must if he wants to come back, for almost any amount of money.

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05-07-2008, 11:46 AM
  #103
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Jags sign before I go to Costa Rica sheesh

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05-07-2008, 11:53 AM
  #104
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Really? Cuz what I saw for most of the season was a 36 year old who has lost a step and was showing his age. Force of will will not keep you playing elite hockey through an 82 game season and into the playoffs. Did Jagr get a ton of attention this year that wasn't put on other people? Sure he did. Did it work on him this time? You bet it did. Why? Because he has lost a step

The Jagr we saw in the last few weeks of the season and in the playoffs is not the Jagr we're going to see all year next year. We'll get glimpses. If they do resign him and I'm wrong, then I'll eat crow. But I absolutely refuse to let his recent performance blind me to what I saw the rest of the year.
But you'd rather have Gomez's INFERIOR 16G 54A 70PTS and Drury's 58PTS lead this team? Got new for you, than we aren't a playoff team. Jagr coasting half the year was still more productive than the top to "elite" players we signed. What does that make them? Stop giving Jagr the flack. Don't blame the PP on him. Wasn't there a whole seperate unit of Gomez, Drury, Shanny, etc; that also couldn't get it done? What was their excuse? Lack of talent? No, blame Perry Pearn for an ineffective PP and the lack of a true QB but not Jagr's one PP unit.

OH, and we complain how Jagr coasted all season BUT we are talking about signing a guy who also came off one of his worst seasons ever with 67PTS (less than Jagr). And a guy who will cost several million more. What's the logic there?

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05-07-2008, 12:05 PM
  #105
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I'm talking about the next two years. That's it. After that we (as in the Rangers) will have to reassess and see what our options are and how our kids have developed. The hope is that at that point either Cherepanov will be a star or there will be an absolute superstar available on the free agent market or through trade (i.e. Lecavalier). Who knows, maybe Cherepanov will be a star AND we'll get a more seasoned star to put next to him.
yea i get what your saying, i jst thought hossa would be a nice fit for the rangers. but yea i guess that depends how the whole cherepanov thing pans out

i dont know about lecavlier, he is a center, you guys are pretty deep down the middle

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05-07-2008, 12:11 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
not if the cap keeps jumping up like it has been.
This is true, but it's very dangerous to try and project the cap out multiple season from now. THe league has done very well since the lockout, but I question it's ability to grow revenue streams. This is still a gate driven league, and unless you start substantially expanding seating or ticket prices, there becomes a point when you can't grow anymore with ticket sales.*

The cap could very well continue to grow at the rate is has, but I don't like the idea of: "Just spend the money, of course the cap will keep rising, everything will be okay." It's prudent to leave yourself options. I think committing to Jagr short term and trying to develop an in house replacement is wiser than committing big money to Hossa long term, considering the contracts this team has handed out over the last calendar year.


*I also admit that I know far less about the league's finances and sources of income than many on these boards, if someone cares to correct or expand upon my uninformed musings, I would welcome that.

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05-07-2008, 01:08 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Mainly because I think there will be players better than Hossa available in the future and I want the space to sign them.

(Kovalchuk)
If you think Kovalchuk will hit FA then you're delusional. A team will trade for him and sign him to an extension (right after the trade).

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05-07-2008, 01:59 PM
  #108
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I would gladly sign Jagr to a 2 year 12m contract. Who else would we be able to sign for a short term deal (1 or 2 years) at less than that, who could provide Jagr's production? I'd even give Jagr a night off once a month (2nd game of back to backs) to keep him fresh for the playoffs.

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05-07-2008, 02:42 PM
  #109
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The cap will hit a wall...

can't say when that may be, but there will be a point in which the cap's growth slows. When, who knows, but I'm sure there are analysts out there trying to project-out what the cap may look like in a couple years given assumptions of attendance and expected ticket price increases.

As for Jagr - I'd love to move on without him and get the new model Jagr out there, but if Jagr comes a fair amount cheaper (not sure he would), then I'd prefer Jagr. Even though his numbers were the worst since he was 20 years old, the dependance on Jagr is still there. Go against top lines. Go against top defensive pairings. Play 20+ minutes ofr 82 games. Be the focal point of the other team. There isn't a person on this Rangers team who can take those minutes and there isn't enough depth at wing to make it up in a 'team'-like effort. This organization may need another year of so as Jagr being the bridge to younger players.

Shanny's another story.

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05-07-2008, 02:45 PM
  #110
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broadwayblue...

it's also not only about Jagr's production, it's about what he enables others on his team to do. Gomez is not the kind of guy you want to be the center of other teams' attention. Drury certainly isn't that guy either. Even when he's not producing Jagr takes pressure off others. You hate to bring the intangible word out but they do exist, and while the intangibles are working he's still managing to put up 70 points.

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05-07-2008, 02:48 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
it's also not only about Jagr's production, it's about what he enables others on his team to do. Gomez is not the kind of guy you want to be the center of other teams' attention. Drury certainly isn't that guy either. Even when he's not producing Jagr takes pressure off others. You hate to bring the intangible word out but they do exist, and while the intangibles are working he's still managing to put up 70 points.
Absolutely. When a team is keying on Jagr other guys get more time and space.

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05-07-2008, 02:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
it's also not only about Jagr's production, it's about what he enables others on his team to do. Gomez is not the kind of guy you want to be the center of other teams' attention. Drury certainly isn't that guy either. Even when he's not producing Jagr takes pressure off others. You hate to bring the intangible word out but they do exist, and while the intangibles are working he's still managing to put up 70 points.
The thing is, that is actually a very tangible asset. This isn't the mercurial leadership or good with the kids argument. Jagr's ability to draw defenders away from others is a noticeable (albeit not really measureable) skill that undeniably pays dividends on the rink.

I had my concerns about Jagr this year. I feared he had lost a step like many others did. But after the playoffs it couldn't be more obvious to me that he was just trying to keep some fuel in the tank for what he thought would be a long run at the Cup. I am convinced that had the Rangers playoff spot been in jeopardy at any point we would have seen Jagr turn it on much earlier.

That said, how refreshing would it be to see him pull a Kariya/Selanne and sign here on the cheap? I don't know much about his financial situation (gambling debts, etc.), but how great would it be if he decided to take one for the team to get a taste of that NY glory he apprently desires so much?

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05-07-2008, 03:09 PM
  #113
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I say intangible...

because we don't know to exactly what extent it's a positive.

The scary part is you're right about fuel in the tank - and Jagr says this - perhaps it would've been useful for he and Renney to be on the same page because perhaps Jagr should've been playing 17 minutes per night and not 20+ and thus perhaps he could've played at a higher level for longer and still had something left in the tank for the playoffs.

As with many others there is a way to use him that will enable others with him to be better and for him to still get anmeaningful of points.

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05-07-2008, 04:35 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
If you think Kovalchuk will hit FA then you're delusional. A team will trade for him and sign him to an extension (right after the trade).
Same thing people assumed about Hossa, and he might not resign.

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05-07-2008, 04:42 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by xander View Post
Because this team just committed large money for 5+ years to three players (Drury, Gomez, Lundqvist.) In the short term, the Rangers can afford to pay Jagr 5-6 mil, but if you keep giving out these big longterm contracts, you're going to get squeezed when the Staals and Dubinskys of the world hit restricted free agency.

If you give Hossa 7.5 millions for 7 years, then 3 years from now you will have around 28 million tied up in 4 players. It's not smart cap management.



That situation is unavoidable if you plan on going after Kovochuk in 2 more years.

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05-07-2008, 04:44 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by coolbean04 View Post
If you think Kovalchuk will hit FA then you're delusional. A team will trade for him and sign him to an extension (right after the trade).
Why would you say such a thing?
i'm sure kovo will weigh all his options, unless he is traded to a perfect situation.

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05-07-2008, 04:45 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Same thing people assumed about Hossa, and he might not resign.
Exactly, no need to insult another poster. Take it easy.

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05-07-2008, 04:51 PM
  #118
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Count me as a minority, but I would only want Jagr back if he takes a pay cut, drops to 2nd or 3rd line, and gives up the C.

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05-07-2008, 05:08 PM
  #119
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Jagr on the 3rd line? Well, thats just an incorrect statement.

He shouldn't give up the C, either. He is the leader of the team.

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05-07-2008, 05:31 PM
  #120
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If he wants to play in NY, then 2 years @ 5-6 mil per year is fine. The team can't fill his ice-time and 70 points right now. Find a Zubov type to QB/fix the PP. Get rid of Malik, Strudwick, Hollweg and Rosie, add the tough D-man that this team has been missing for years, and NY is back in business.

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05-07-2008, 05:55 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
That situation is unavoidable if you plan on going after Kovochuk in 2 more years.
Well, that's not really my plan right now. I'd like to see if we can find an internal replacement over the next two years that won't cost gobs of money.

However, if in two years such a player has not been found, then it's much more reasonable to go after a Kovalchuck because: Drury will only have 2 more years left on his contract, as apposed to.

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05-07-2008, 06:28 PM
  #122
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I've said it once here before, and I'll say it again: Sign Jagr for 3 years at 16 million. This guy will be as productive at 39 as he as at 36. It will give the Rangers a little bit of stability and that "fear" factor, and the thought of Jagr with Cherepanov, Anisimov, a full year of Korpedo, etc really makes my mouth water.

Now, I'll understand if you guys disagree. I will understand that the money game makes some of you cringe. I say this though.....with all the contracts that are up this year, and the increase in the cap, the Rangers can AFFORD to give Jags some love, and still pick up what they need in FA or trades.

JMO.

PS: I'm just getting over the series with the Penguins. Feel's like a got dumped. LOL.

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05-08-2008, 11:59 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
But you'd rather have Gomez's INFERIOR 16G 54A 70PTS and Drury's 58PTS lead this team? Got new for you, than we aren't a playoff team. Jagr coasting half the year was still more productive than the top to "elite" players we signed. What does that make them? Stop giving Jagr the flack. Don't blame the PP on him. Wasn't there a whole seperate unit of Gomez, Drury, Shanny, etc; that also couldn't get it done? What was their excuse? Lack of talent? No, blame Perry Pearn for an ineffective PP and the lack of a true QB but not Jagr's one PP unit.

OH, and we complain how Jagr coasted all season BUT we are talking about signing a guy who also came off one of his worst seasons ever with 67PTS (less than Jagr). And a guy who will cost several million more. What's the logic there?
Every player no matter how great begins to slow down. If anyone doesn't think Jagr hasn't reached that stage then they are not looking close enough. The thing that irritated me was that alot of the times he looked like he wasn't trying. Who can forget that play this year when he coasted to the bench, had the puck go between his legs, which lead to an opposition breakaway goal.

I think Gomez and Drury did great for FIRST YEAR FA signings. It's rare that they play well in their first year. I'd bet their second years are much better.

I also thought that Dubinsky was one of our top 3 forwards down the stretch and playoffs.

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05-08-2008, 12:07 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
I think he meant on the blue line
He obviously meant on the blue line. One of the biggest and most apparent advantages Pittsburg had over the Rangers in the series was the ability to move the puck up the ice from the d-men and create open ice opportunities- whether they be break aways or odd man rushes. Personally I was dumbfounded at the opportunities they make, especially Gonchar. Malkin had a clear breakaway that Girardi had to take him down on, Malkin and Sykora went 2 on 1 for a easy and nicely set up goal, etc, etc. Our defense can be a pretty shut down type of defense at times, we lack the ice-length game breaking chances from the blue line though. Someone like Campbell would do wonders for both PP and ES time. And he eats up massive minutes if needed.

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05-08-2008, 12:12 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
Every player no matter how great begins to slow down. If anyone doesn't think Jagr hasn't reached that stage then they are not looking close enough. The thing that irritated me was that alot of the times he looked like he wasn't trying. Who can forget that play this year when he coasted to the bench, had the puck go between his legs, which lead to an opposition breakaway goal.

I think Gomez and Drury did great for FIRST YEAR FA signings. It's rare that they play well in their first year. I'd bet their second years are much better.

I also thought that Dubinsky was one of our top 3 forwards down the stretch and playoffs.
He wasn't full out trying all year. At times he did, and at times he didn't. I was watching an interview of him on the Rangers On Demand on their site, or reading something, where he pretty much admitted that he feels much more rested than many other guys going into the playoffs. He made it sound like he saves all his effort for a post-season run.

I think at this time Jagr is a neccessity for this team. He can be had back for 2 years at 5-6.5 mill and even if not trying so hard he will put up a 70-80 point year and a point per game or more in the playoffs, I'd be okay with that. He is the best winger on the team and will hold ground while some of the kids develop. And this would prevent having to make a deal for someone like Kovy also.

Team FA Targets:
Jagr, Campbell, Ryder .... in that order.

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