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Old
05-11-2008, 11:38 AM
  #26
le_sean
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Every GM makes mistakes. Gainey got the time to correct them/wait for his fortunes to change.

A guy like Dave Nonis got fired..
Ok so the Habs have more patience in the front office than the Canucks. I don't see your point.

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05-11-2008, 11:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Also what makes you think talking to everyone isn't a good idea?

And no one GM has turned the Leafs down yet, the teams they're until contract have.

BTW, Gainey is a poor GM. He has time, give any GM in the league the time Gainey had and you'd see results.

Your team is a joke. This is not UFA season, its trying to a replace a GM and coach. Honestly your team tried to buy championships and it did not work. Now trying to buy management in a un classy manner.

If anyone was smart they would never go to the leafs, you know why because the leafs are run like a business with everyones hands in everything. You guys turned Scotty Bowman, is your organization handicap.

Bob is awesome, want to know why, unlike JFJ which made every deal dictated by the media. Bob Gainey said we would be a contenter by 2009, guess what buddy we are there. Also he makes deals that he expects are right and not what the media thinks. Also every mistake he has made, he has been able to get out of unlike the leafs with there 5 players with no trade clauses.

Keep dreaming Leaf Fans, money does not buy everything, espically cups and great GM's that would put up with your business practices.

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05-11-2008, 11:41 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Ok so the Habs have more patience in the front office than the Canucks. I don't see your point.
There are better GMs with less success because of it. Would you say Brett Hull is a much better GM then Bob Gainey?

Guys like Brian Burke, Bob Gainey are the nice big names the Leafs will go after. If they do end up with one of them, I think most of us Leaf fans are in for a nasty surprise.

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05-11-2008, 11:44 AM
  #29
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They just want to show their fans that they doing everything they can....just like Gainey does for his UFA offers.... (It's a joke....)

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05-11-2008, 11:45 AM
  #30
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There's no way Gainey would leave Montreal right now. He's been a part of the rebuilding process for a long time and now it's finally starting to pay off. He wants to win the Stanley Cup as a GM with the Canadiens before leaving.

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05-11-2008, 11:47 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
There are better GMs with less success because of it. Would you say Brett Hull is a much better GM then Bob Gainey?

Guys like Brian Burke, Bob Gainey are the nice big names the Leafs will go after. If they do end up with one of them, I think most of us Leaf fans are in for a nasty surprise.
Like any other GM. If MLSE don't give them time to build a contending team, the Leafs will stay at the bottom of the league.

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05-11-2008, 11:49 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
There are better GMs with less success because of it. Would you say Brett Hull is a much better GM then Bob Gainey?

Guys like Brian Burke, Bob Gainey are the nice big names the Leafs will go after. If they do end up with one of them, I think most of us Leaf fans are in for a nasty surprise.
Why? You have no basis for this belief. The Habs missed the playoffs once under Gainey, due to the last game of the season. Had Kovalev played like he can play or had Samsonov playedl ike previous years they would have got in easily.

You brought up Nonis. Sure the Canucks won the division the year before but they missed this year. Yes this was due to injuries on their defence. The problem is Nonis did NOTHING to patch those injuries up. He didn't make any moves to help their poor offence either. Their window of opportunity is short since they have a good defence and Luongo is in his prime NOW. They don't need a patient GM.

The Habs lost for a while, the team was a mess. Gainey came in and said "it will take time but we will be a great team again." Everyone bought in and stood by him and it's working out. Now the Habs became 1st in the East as one of the youngest teams in the league.

I don't know how you can say Gainey is not that good.

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Old
05-11-2008, 11:50 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dlandry77 View Post
Your team is a joke. This is not UFA season, its trying to a replace a GM and coach. Honestly your team tried to buy championships and it did not work. Now trying to buy management in a un classy manner.

If anyone was smart they would never go to the leafs, you know why because the leafs are run like a business with everyones hands in everything. You guys turned Scotty Bowman, is your organization handicap.

Bob is awesome, want to know why, unlike JFJ which made every deal dictated by the media. Bob Gainey said we would be a contenter by 2009, guess what buddy we are there. Also he makes deals that he expects are right and not what the media thinks. Also every mistake he has made, he has been able to get out of unlike the leafs with there 5 players with no trade clauses.

Keep dreaming Leaf Fans, money does not buy everything, espically cups and great GM's that would put up with your business practices.
The cap takes away the advantage the richer teams had on players, do you want one for management too? I don't see anything "un classy" about asking teams for permission to speak to their management?

And you haven't said anything to prove Gainey is be a better GM, only that he's been in a better situation to excel. Except he doesn't have any NTCs.

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05-11-2008, 11:51 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
They just want to show their fans that they doing everything they can....just like Gainey does for his UFA offers.... (It's a joke....)
I agree they are trying but come on. I have never seen a team do this in the whole existence of the NHL. Seems very unprofessional and more like a circus act. I have never heard of a team asking every team in the league for permission to talk with all the General Managers in the league.

Bob Gainey would never go to the Leafs because he will be treated like a legend in Montreal forever. Oh by the way who has the leafs ever got in free agency, Jason Blake??? haha thats a good one. To be honest the only good free agent that the leafs ever got in there history was Alexander Mogiliny.

The place to be is Montreal, sorry leaf fans there is a problem now its called the cap. You better start drafting now.

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05-11-2008, 11:51 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Every GM makes mistakes. Gainey got the time to correct them/wait for his fortunes to change.

A guy like Dave Nonis got fired..
I don't know if you have any clue of what happened in the cases you have stated, but anyways, let me explain...

Beauchemin was lose through waivers during the lock-out year. At that time, nobody knew that he was going to become a very good defenceman. His value, for most team, was pretty low, and there was no place for him. Columbus took him as they had less depth than us, and Beauchemin turned his career around in Anaheim. After all, it's easy to say that Gainey made a mistake, but at that time, most of the GMs wouldn't even have took the guy on waivers...

Hainsey was a headcase from day one. He's a party animal, and he wasn't all that serious about his career. He was given the chance, but never took it. The year where we lost him, we kept Streit in the big league, and sent Hainsey in minor. When we had like 3 injured defenceman, we had to call him up, and lost him on re-entry waivers. We had no choice...but anyways, it's hardly a mistake from Gainey, as Streit had 60 points this year...

In the Ribeiro case, it's more complicated. I, for one, don't believe that Ribeiro would have become that good in Montreal. Like Hainsey, he wasn't enough serious about his career. The minimum was good for him. He wasn't fitting the mold that Gainey was trying to fill, so he traded him. That wasn't the mistake...but the return was. But all in all, it was for the best of the team...

So yeah, those were not really huge mistakes, like signing players to long contract with no trade clauses, and selling out the farm team to finally miss the playoffs three years in a row. Gainey is a good GM...the the best one, but a good one who turned the Montreal franchise around by sticking to his plan.

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05-11-2008, 11:53 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
The cap takes away the advantage the richer teams had on players, do you want one for management too? I don't see anything "un classy" about asking teams for permission to speak to their management?

And you haven't said anything to prove Gainey is be a better GM, only that he's been in a better situation to excel. Except he doesn't have any NTCs.

Kovalev
Koivu
Hammrlik
Markov
Smolinski (1yr contract)

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Old
05-11-2008, 11:56 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SexyChick87 View Post
Kovalev
Koivu
Hammrlik
Markov
and one or two more
Mistakes.. If the team wasn't winning, it'd look a lot like the NTC5 the Leafs had.

John Ferguson realized he made a mistake with Paul Maurice, when he tried to fire him.. The move was vetoed.

I'm not trying to say John Ferguson is a great GM or anything. I'm just saying Bob Gainey is not that great (based on moves, not success). Neither are, but Gainey got to stick to his plan, not many GMs do.

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05-11-2008, 12:00 PM
  #38
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Mistakes.. If the team wasn't winning, it'd look a lot like the NTC5 the Leafs had.

John Ferguson realized he made a mistake with Paul Maurice, when he tried to fire him.. The move was vetoed.

I'm not trying to say John Ferguson is a great GM or anything. I'm just saying Bob Gainey is not that great (based on moves, not success). He got to stick to his plan, not many GMs do.

THAT WAS HIS MANDATE WHEN HIRED

Not all teams want instant success...the Habs decided that they wanted to rebuild into a parennial contender and not a fly by night championship team.

They told Gainey: Make us a winner by 09

Whatever mistakes were made in the interim, have been corrected. He's team is way under the cap and is losing maybe only 2 roster players.

Sounds like a damn good gm to me


Anyways, I feel like Im talking to my cat here. Im done with this.

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05-11-2008, 12:01 PM
  #39
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Kovalev trade from the Rangers and then we resign brillant.

Garon for Huet and Bonk another awesome trade

Mike Johnson for a 3rd round pick in 2006 summer. He played the whole year and I thought he played very well.

Hammer awesome UFA signing, just awesome. The media thought he was dumb and thought we were finished without Souray. HAHA yeah right. Roman was awesome this year.

Samsonov bad pick and buys him out but he makes this even better that no GM has done since the cap. He trades him for Tony Samelinin and Jason Cullomore because both of them together cost less and then he buys both of them out for less. That is brillant.

Riberio was a cancer in montreal and to be Honest Tomas Plekanec will be even better.

He does not throw away the future like this year with Hossa. Toronto has done this there entire existence because there was no cap but guess what there is one now.

Do yourself a favour gets some scouts

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05-11-2008, 12:03 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SexyChick87 View Post
THAT WAS HIS MANDATE WHEN HIRED

Not all teams want instant success...the Habs decided that they wanted to rebuild into a parennial contender and not a fly by night championship team.

They told Gainey: Make us a winner by 09

Whatever mistakes were made in the interim, have been corrected. He's team is way under the cap and is losing maybe only 2 roster players.

Sounds like a damn good gm to me


Anyways, I feel like Im talking to my cat here. Im done with this.
Six years to build a contender..

What NHL GM do you think can't do that? There are only a few.

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05-11-2008, 12:03 PM
  #41
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I agree they are trying but come on. I have never seen a team do this in the whole existence of the NHL. Seems very unprofessional and more like a circus act. I have never heard of a team asking every team in the league for permission to talk with all the General Managers in the league.

Bob Gainey would never go to the Leafs because he will be treated like a legend in Montreal forever. Oh by the way who has the leafs ever got in free agency, Jason Blake??? haha thats a good one. To be honest the only good free agent that the leafs ever got in there history was Alexander Mogiliny.
Isn't that how Montreal got Guy Carboneau? Asking for permission to talk to him from Dallas?

I'm sure moves like this happen alot, they just aren't magnified as much because it's Toronto.

I'd say Gary Roberts was a pretty good UFA signing. So was Curtis Joseph,Ed Belfour, Joe Nieuwendyk, Steve Thomas.

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05-11-2008, 12:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Mistakes.. If the team wasn't winning, it'd look a lot like the NTC5 the Leafs had.

John Ferguson realized he made a mistake with Paul Maurice, when he tried to fire him.. The move was vetoed.

I'm not trying to say John Ferguson is a great GM or anything. I'm just saying Bob Gainey is not that great (based on moves, not success). Neither are, but Gainey got to stick to his plan, not many GMs do.
Any team needs stable ownership and management, with no meddling from above. Until Toronto gets a strong GM that runs it his way they will always have trouble. You need a Colangelo type. I would guess now that UFA's will stay away from Toronto as they won't want to deal with the mess there, plus with the CAP Toronto lost its advantage

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05-11-2008, 12:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by SexyChick87 View Post
THAT WAS HIS MANDATE WHEN HIRED

Not all teams want instant success...the Habs decided that they wanted to rebuild into a parennial contender and not a fly by night championship team.

They told Gainey: Make us a winner by 09

Whatever mistakes were made in the interim, have been corrected. He's team is way under the cap and is losing maybe only 2 roster players.

Sounds like a damn good gm to me


Anyways, I feel like Im talking to my cat here. Im done with this.

I totall agree and I think every Montreal fan realizes how great Bob has become. Also Bob does have a Stanely cup as a GM from Dallas which a lot GM's still do not have. You have to be paitent in this business and Bob has reassured the fans he is on the right track.

Bob has also made Montreal a place where players would definately think about playing. There was rough patch with Rejan Houle and Bob has totally fixed that in about 5 years not bad in my mind.

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05-11-2008, 12:09 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Um.. Last year he would not be anywhere near a wanted GM. He gave up guys like Beauchemin, Hainsey, and Rebeiro for nothing. He had bums like Kovalev, Niinimaa, and Samsonov on the roster. His prospects hadn't done much yet, AK was considered a bust. His team didn't make the playoffs..

I didn't put Gainey down intentionally, the Habs organization should be praised for sticking with him in the long run. He had five years , no interference and several mistakes in building this team. They're are just better guys.
Quoted for comedy. Yeah he was so considered a bust, yeah, sure.

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05-11-2008, 12:09 PM
  #45
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Six years to build a contender..

What NHL GM do you think can't do that? There are only a few.
Ummm how about Atlanta with Waddell or Columbus or ....... LOL or Toronto....

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05-11-2008, 12:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Six years to build a contender..

What NHL GM do you think can't do that? There are only a few.
I still dont know what you are trying to get at?

"He is a poor GM but given an average amount of time, he can build a winner."

POOF ... It's that easy according to you.

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05-11-2008, 12:16 PM
  #47
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Ummm how about Atlanta with Waddell or Columbus or ....... LOL or Toronto....
MacLean, yes. But the guy they have now is pretty decent, Howson.

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I still dont know what you are trying to get at?

"He is a poor GM but given an average amount of time, he can build a winner."

POOF ... It's that easy according to you.
Yup, pretty much. It's no amazing feat.

Toronto should try and emulate Montreal's entire situation when they hired Gainey, post-Houle in 2003.. Just getting Gainey or another big name like Burke isn't going to help.

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Old
05-11-2008, 12:19 PM
  #48
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General Mangers with Stanely Cups
Brian Burke, Anaheim
1
Lou Lamoriello, New Jersey
3
Ken Holland, Detroit
2
Bob Gainey, Montreal
1
Jim Rutherford, Carolina
1
Glen Sather, New York Rangers
5
Cliff Fletcher, Toronto
1 in 1967 or earlier

Jay Feaster, Tampa Bay
1

Hockey news voted Bob Gainey 4th out of 30 GM's in the league not bad I say. So 7 GM's have cups in the last 25 years out of 30, sorry Cliff can't be included on this one. We all know how bad Tampa messed up there sweet situtaion.

Bob is awesome get over it.

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05-11-2008, 12:19 PM
  #49
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MacLean, yes. But the guy they have now is pretty decent, Howson.



Yup, pretty much. It's no amazing feat.

Toronto should try and emulate Montreal's entire situation when they hired Gainey, post-Houle in 2003.. Just getting Gainey or another big name like Burke isn't going to help.
OK then ...

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05-11-2008, 12:19 PM
  #50
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Bob Gainey became general manager of the Montreal Canadiens (May 2003).

John Ferguson Jr. became general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs (August 2003).
you should read this mister skittle

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