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Old
05-12-2008, 12:27 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Nope. I guess I'm a little hesitant on calling any GM good.

Guys I think are good are:
Holland
Wilson
Lamoriello
Risebrough
Poile
Sutter
Regier

Giguere
??

Calgary's drafting has been mediocre to bad. The Flames are gonna be a bottom feeder in a few years, and all Darcy Regier's known for is letting go all his key UFA's and giving the Sabres the distinction of being only the 3rd NHL team to miss the playoffs after winning the President's Trophy the previous season.

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Old
05-12-2008, 12:42 AM
  #102
Kimota
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I like Bob for his leadership(remember when he called out those that were booing Brisebois and other things like that). But let's face it the Habs has had success this year despite the moves that Gainey has failed to pull off whether it's trades, signings, etc...Remember before the season that just ended it was disbelief amongst fans that we would start the season weaker than the previous year. All we had to show for was Harmlik and Smolinski. Hammer sure solidified our D but it was the emergeance of the Kostitsyn Bros., Kovalev, Plekanec and Komisarek that made the Habs save face in the end. You could say that sure guys like Carbo did a great job in putting every elements together. And Bob hired these guys. But I find it hard to look beyond what Timmins gave to the club who to me is the real hero in this. I'm giving the nod to Bob and Carbo for stirring the ship toward the right path but not as far as doing moves to make them a contender. Heck I would say at least Carbo experimented like crazy by having defensemen becoming forwards when he had no more resources. Like I said Bob is a great leader but there was a lot of luck this year.

As far as the Leafs' GM I would think somebody like Doug Risebrough would make sens because I firmly believe that Jacques Lemaire would make a terrifick GM and could replace him in Minnesota. Lemaire was always a highly intelligent man and he was a huge loss to the Habs as Assisstant GM when he left for New Jersey. Even Serge Savard seemed lost and started making dumb moves when he didn't have Lemaire anymore. The guy also loves coaching but after hearing him on radio the other day he said he was a little tired of doing that. The only problem would be that Doug is a Hab at heart and would rather burn his own face than to join the Leafs. That would be a great reason.

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05-12-2008, 01:07 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
MacLean, yes. But the guy they have now is pretty decent, Howson.



Yup, pretty much. It's no amazing feat.

Toronto should try and emulate Montreal's entire situation when they hired Gainey, post-Houle in 2003.. Just getting Gainey or another big name like Burke isn't going to help.
If you had any credibility here, it's gone now...

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05-12-2008, 05:50 AM
  #104
Hackett
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Besides the fact Timmins is making Gainey look like a great GM, what exactly has BG done to rank him this high?

His trades haven't yet proven to be brilliant **sorry Josh lovers, I'd rather have Rivet at this point} , Niinima for Ribs was... pathetic... and the Huet deal came back to haunt him somewhat.

He let Souray walk, instead of trading him when he had the chance and hasn't addressed many team needs since he landed here.

I mean..really... Timmins has built this club.. and made BG look very good in the process. Yeah sure, you have to hire the best scouts as a GM.. thats the key.. but BG has not proven to be a top 10 GM.

I'm not blaming him for that, the cap is a different game. I'm not trying to bash the man, he's done a good job as have the people around him.

The BG nuthuggers refuse to see the man for any of his flaws.

I guess its debatable, but I'm getting more and more excited about pacioretty by the day. I dont blame bob for that trade. He got a nice return for a would be UFA in Rivet. I dont think I would want to pay rivet 4+ mil.

The Ribeiro deal was an absolute dud, no doubt.

I'm just glad we didn't end up landing briere (although gainey tried ) for 6 or 7 years. I refuse to give him a franchise deal both in terms of length and average salary.

Gainey has had his ups and downs, but in general, I feel comfortable with him in charge. I dont get the sense that he panics, which is especially important in this market.

We can look back to who we had as our GM 10 years ago today, and realize that things aren't all that bad these days


Last edited by Hackett: 05-12-2008 at 05:55 AM.
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Old
05-12-2008, 06:43 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Um.. Last year he would not be anywhere near a wanted GM. He gave up guys like Beauchemin, Hainsey, and Rebeiro for nothing. He had bums like Kovalev, Niinimaa, and Samsonov on the roster. His prospects hadn't done much yet, AK was considered a bust. His team didn't make the playoffs..

I didn't put Gainey down intentionally, the Habs organization should be praised for sticking with him in the long run. He had five years , no interference and several mistakes in building this team. They're are just better guys.


blah blah blah

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Old
05-12-2008, 06:45 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
Um.. Last year he would not be anywhere near a wanted GM. He gave up guys like Beauchemin, Hainsey, and Rebeiro for nothing. He had bums like Kovalev, Niinimaa, and Samsonov on the roster. His prospects hadn't done much yet, AK was considered a bust. His team didn't make the playoffs..

I didn't put Gainey down intentionally, the Habs organization should be praised for sticking with him in the long run. He had five years , no interference and several mistakes in building this team. They're are just better guys.


Oh please, go troll somewhere else. Gainey is one of the best hockey minds in hockey. There is no one in Teranna that comes close, which is why they have made many overtures to Gainey...and mickey mouse for that matter. Anyone genius like yourself can pick out a UFA that or a trade that doesnt' work out--all GMs do that. Gainey's best moves are the ones he doesn't make. He has the sense and patience to find talent from within. But if you look at the big picture, Gainey has done miracles over the amature hour that has gone on in Teranna. Get lost.

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Old
05-12-2008, 06:54 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SexyChick87 View Post
They're desperate...
Bingo.

It`s like being GM of the Leafs is the best thing in the world....sadly the last decade has shown it is far from that.

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Old
05-12-2008, 07:19 AM
  #108
Nashy
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Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
This team has not done anything in the last 40 years so I would think so..

Where did you see Toronto finishing last for the next few years? How can you predict that? Certainly as a Habs fan like yourself who like most of their fans have been saying "We were predicted to be last by almost all of the media in September" Anything can happen..

I don't blame you guys at all for being so high on your Habs and so down against the Leafs, being it is only the second time in 10 years Montreal was better than them.
Who's your marquis player, who's your coach, will your GM still be alive next year?....your finishing last next year, and probably the year after....get used to it.

Leafs are rotten from the top down...and the cupboards are pretty bare.

I don't blame you for being so brainwashed....errr passionate.

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Old
05-12-2008, 07:32 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
Who's your marquis player, who's your coach, will your GM still be alive next year?....your finishing last next year, and probably the year after....get used to it.

Leafs are rotten from the top down...and the cupboards are pretty bare.

I don't blame you for being so brainwashed....errr passionate.
Dude! I just spit pop all over my monitor at work. Thanks a lot!

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Old
05-12-2008, 08:29 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
If you think that the Rivet trade was a bad one for the Habs, then there's just no way you follow the sport closely. MaxPac alone was a steal for Rivet but then you throw in a 23 year old Dman like Gorges who really blossomed this past season....this shouldn't even be up for debate. It's probably BG's best trade.
That's your opinion. Doug Wickenheiser was also drafted first overall by the Habs and we know how well that pick turned out. Until we see max play in the NHL, all we have is a potential prospect and nothing more. If a player peforms well in the minor leagues, there is no guarantee he will perform at that level in the NHL.

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Old
05-12-2008, 08:31 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Besides the fact Timmins is making Gainey look like a great GM, what exactly has BG done to rank him this high?

His trades haven't yet proven to be brilliant {sorry Josh lovers, I'd rather have Rivet at this point} , Niinima for Ribs was... pathetic... and the Huet deal came back to haunt him somewhat.

He let Souray walk, instead of trading him when he had the chance and hasn't addressed many team needs since he landed here.

I mean..really... Timmins has built this club.. and made BG look very good in the process. Yeah sure, you have to hire the best scouts as a GM.. thats the key.. but BG has not proven to be a top 10 GM.

I'm not blaming him for that, the cap is a different game. I'm not trying to bash the man, he's done a good job as have the people around him.

The BG nuthuggers refuse to see the man for any of his flaws.
Agreed man.

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Old
05-12-2008, 08:38 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Chocolate Skittles View Post
His prospects hadn't done much yet,
Yeah, you're right.

All his prospects had done last season was win the Calder Cup.

You're in way over your head and you're making a fool of yourself. Move on.

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Old
05-12-2008, 09:39 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Besides the fact Timmins is making Gainey look like a great GM, what exactly has BG done to rank him this high?

His trades haven't yet proven to be brilliant {sorry Josh lovers, I'd rather have Rivet at this point} , Niinima for Ribs was... pathetic... and the Huet deal came back to haunt him somewhat.

He let Souray walk, instead of trading him when he had the chance and hasn't addressed many team needs since he landed here.


I mean..really... Timmins has built this club.. and made BG look very good in the process. Yeah sure, you have to hire the best scouts as a GM.. thats the key.. but BG has not proven to be a top 10 GM.

I'm not blaming him for that, the cap is a different game. I'm not trying to bash the man, he's done a good job as have the people around him.

The BG nuthuggers refuse to see the man for any of his flaws.
Sure...trading an aging, injured, UFA-to-be Rivet for a promising early 20's D man and a 1st rounder (Pacriotty) was a horrible deal

I've already commented on Ribs in this thread...and others. IE, history revisionism can make us all seem real smart.

And exactly how did the Huet deal come back to haunt us? Please do tell? Huet was good for what he was. He solidified our situation between the pipes until our better, younger goalies were able to take over.

Let Souray walk? To bad their wasn't a short pier at his disposal at that time. Sure, Sheldon Souray. As far as combination of ineptness ,overratedness and fragility....one of the worst to ever wear an NHL hockey uniform.

Not addressed our needs? He's done just great especially when you consider almost every other GM has a huge head-start due to the insanely stupid Quebec tax laws. I don't see the Gainey bashers ever mention that. It is a major factor. Much bigger than most of the BS you guys drum up.

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Old
05-12-2008, 09:41 AM
  #114
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Why don't they just put Gilmour in charge

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Old
05-12-2008, 10:13 AM
  #115
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Who's your marquis player, who's your coach, will your GM still be alive next year?....your finishing last next year, and probably the year after....get used to it.

Leafs are rotten from the top down...and the cupboards are pretty bare.

I don't blame you for being so brainwashed....errr passionate.

Yep.. The Leafs will begin the season with a dead GM and no coach.

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Old
05-12-2008, 10:18 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
Yep.. The Leafs will begin the season with a dead GM and no coach.
If that happened, there would be meetings with some memebr of the MLSE insisting that only a funeral home owned by Tie Domi's nephew could be counted on. The rumour would be leaked to Dreger, who would find this very important news.

Then we'd have a thread laughing at it, then you'd all show up all indignant. Yes, the circle of life.

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05-12-2008, 10:25 AM
  #117
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Sure...trading an aging, injured, UFA-to-be Rivet for a promising early 20's D man and a 1st rounder (Pacriotty) was a horrible deal
You can use as many cute little Smilies as you want, fact is Rivet is a very solid player. A lot of players stunk, when Rivet was chased out of town. He's a leader, tough as nails and a player any team would welcome.

He certainly has flaws, but Rivet is a very good veteran to have on your team. Unless you can see the future, I'm not sure what the point of bragging about a draft pick is at this time.

Quote:
I've already commented on Ribs in this thread...and others. IE, history revisionism can make us all seem real smart.
Snoop at the original trade threat some time, only a handful of people liked the deal. Nobody disagreed it was time for Ribs to go, but nobody in the world wanted Niinima. BG must have been on glue when he took that pile of garbage in return for a young forward.


Quote:
And exactly how did the Huet deal come back to haunt us? Please do tell? Huet was good for what he was. He solidified our situation between the pipes until our better, younger goalies were able to take over.
Huet backing up Price in the playoffs would have been much better than Halak/Price. Fine, trade Huet, I don't really care.. just give Price a veteran to calm him down once the pressure really starts.

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Let Souray walk? To bad their wasn't a short pier at his disposal at that time. Sure, Sheldon Souray. As far as combination of ineptness ,overratedness and fragility....one of the worst to ever wear an NHL hockey uniform.
Oh, now I get it. A player sets a Montreal record for goals by a dman, goes to the allstar game.. can beat the snot out of most...character...100 mph slap shot... it all adds up to one of the worst to ever wear an NHL hockey uniform.

I can see this debate is going nowhere.

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Old
05-12-2008, 10:26 AM
  #118
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If that happened, there would be meetings with some memebr of the MLSE insisting that only a funeral home owned by Tie Domi's nephew could be counted on. The rumour would be leaked to Dreger, who would find this very important news.

Then we'd have a thread laughing at it, then you'd all show up all indignant. Yes, the circle of life.
Really?

Honestly... Some of you guys should worry about your own team rather than the Leafs. Your fixation about them is sickening and you post shows it.

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05-12-2008, 10:30 AM
  #119
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I guess its debatable, but I'm getting more and more excited about pacioretty by the day. I dont blame bob for that trade. He got a nice return for a would be UFA in Rivet. I dont think I would want to pay rivet 4+ mil.
I don't think it was a bad trade at all, it just gets frustrating when people trash players that are sent packing. If Pacioretty turns out to be a good pick, this was a great trade. If not, then.. I wouldn't trade Rivet for Josh..

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I'm just glad we didn't end up landing briere (although gainey tried ) for 6 or 7 years. I refuse to give him a franchise deal both in terms of length and average salary.
I'm glad as well, but BG definitely tried to do this signing.

Quote:
Gainey has had his ups and downs, but in general, I feel comfortable with him in charge. I dont get the sense that he panics, which is especially important in this market.
I agree, I'm comfortable with Bob as well. I'd like to see how he handles the holes the team has though.

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We can look back to who we had as our GM 10 years ago today, and realize that things aren't all that bad these days
Very true.

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05-12-2008, 10:33 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
Really?

Honestly... Some of you guys should worry about your own team rather than the Leafs. Your fixation about them is sickening and you post shows it.
You're easily sickened. I don't think much about the Leafs. It's general hockey talk, so they come up. The talk coming from Toronto these days seems a little dis-jointed, from separate ownership factions with separate agnedas, to Peddie mouthing JFJ's speech, to Fletcher's odd rambling pc last week. Does this seem stable to you ? You're confident all the oars are being pulled in the same dircetiuon ?

If we have some fun with it, you're sickened ? I'd suggest a thicker skin, Captain Serious.

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05-12-2008, 10:38 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
You're easily sickened. I don't think much about the Leafs. It's general hockey talk, so they come up. The talk coming from Toronto these days seems a little dis-jointed, from separate ownership factions with separate agnedas, to Peddie mouthing JFJ's speech, to Fletcher's odd rambling pc last week. Does this seem stable to you ? You're confident all the oars are being pulled in the same dircetiuon ?

If we have some fun with it, you're sickened ? I'd suggest a thicker skin, Captain Serious.
I would agree with you if it were true or if what you said made any sense..

I wouldn't quite call it having some fun, if goes way deeper than that.

Doesnt matter anyway.. You guys right now are where Leafs fans were in 98-2004.

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05-12-2008, 10:58 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
I would agree with you if it were true or if what you said made any sense..

I wouldn't quite call it having some fun, if goes way deeper than that.

Doesnt matter anyway.. You guys right now are where Leafs fans were in 98-2004.
I remember reading a long detailled earnest post from a Leaf fan, outlininmg how the CH could never be competitive again. It kindly reminded us how the economic structure of Canada would ensure that the Leafs would always be able to outspend, thus outperform all Canadian rivals. Enjoying the current state of affairs is a natural progression of that attitude.

If you think it's some deep rooted thing, well you're welcome to the thought. We're aware of what happens in Toronto sports, if we want NHL talk, we have to wait for Dreger or whoever mention the rumour du jour, the latest working GM to have his name thrown in the mix, before getting to relevant hockey talk.

The ridicule of the whole saga may be over the top, but this is hf, not mensa.

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05-12-2008, 12:31 PM
  #123
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This team is now in the top 5 of the league with the most important asset: Great team spirit.
It was last year, lets see how the boys handle the expectations they have created. Great teams are consistent for years, not just one.

Quote:
BG is certainly in the top 10 GM of the league.
Perhaps he is, we'll know after next season where the team really stands. Will BG sit on the success of last season, or will he try to fill the holes on this team?

I'd say a great GM fills the holes, the pretenders sit back and hope their team can repeat with their fingers crossed.

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If the Habs stays in the top 5 for two more years given the CAP rules, well he is in the top 3.
Agree 100% , well said.

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05-12-2008, 02:13 PM
  #124
Karl Pilkington
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Originally Posted by albathegreat View Post
I would agree with you if it were true or if what you said made any sense..

I wouldn't quite call it having some fun, if goes way deeper than that.

Doesnt matter anyway.. You guys right now are where Leafs fans were in 98-2004.
Not really.. we homegrow talent from within our farm system. From 98-04 the Leafs would play the same song and dance every year at trade deadline and trade away whatever picks they needed to for some rental action.

The salary cap sure does make it a little harder to throw money at your problems... .

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Old
05-12-2008, 04:01 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by CristoHuet View Post
Not really.. we homegrow talent from within our farm system. From 98-04 the Leafs would play the same song and dance every year at trade deadline and trade away whatever picks they needed to for some rental action.

The salary cap sure does make it a little harder to throw money at your problems... .

The year Toronto brought Quinn in for 1998 and the Leafs went on to the Eastern Conference final was a younger team with home grown talent.

Lonny Bohonos
Tomas Kaberle
Danny Markov
Sergei Berezin
Mike Johnson
Fredrik Modin
Steve Thomas (the Leafs drafted him)
Alyn McCauley (played in St.Johns, debuted with the Leafs)
Todd Warriner (St.Johns then debuted as a rookie with Leafs)
Yannick Tremblay
Adam Mair

All these guys were home grown

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