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Bring Back Jagr?

View Poll Results: ?
Yes 158 72.48%
No 15 6.88%
Depends - No if he gets 6M$++ 45 20.64%
Voters: 218. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-12-2008, 04:02 PM
  #126
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
How so? What Im saying is, unless you want to break the bank for Hossa in terms of money and years, and stick him with Gomez for the longterm, the alternate for this season is finding someone else on the cheap that can do it regardless of Jagr's status. Noone else on the market is considered elite, and you'd be very lucky to get point per game production out of any other options (Malone, Ryder, Rolston, etc).

Admittedly, Im not sure what the UFA market looks like in 2009, but I think right now the best thing to do would be to overload a 1 year contract for Jagr knowing that all that money will come off the books the following season.
If the goal is to find a winger to play with Gomez (and I believe that this is the #1 priority of the offseason) you can't give Jagr whatever he wants. What are you really expecting from Jagr productions-wise?

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Old
05-12-2008, 04:02 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Hey heres an idea.

Sign Jagr and then trade him.
lol Pay less but offer the NTC. Its only for 2 years right?

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Old
05-12-2008, 04:05 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Thats why you have to get "creative" in the trade market...
Hey I would love for Sather to be able to pull off a trade for a young sniper...but like I said, the names on our end for such a player wont be Prucha, Tyutin, Dawes, Callahan, etc. It would be more like Staal, Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, or Anisimov for starters. Some Ranger fans shudder at the thought of losing any of those players.

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05-12-2008, 04:07 PM
  #129
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I would bring Jagr back for 2 years. Front load the contract since there aren't many attractive FA's this off-season anyway. That way you get Jagr this year, cap flexibility the next and I personally believe he can have a similar season to this past year. If his skills deteriorate then in the second year he has a minor cap hit and I don't think anyone would be opposed to Jagr on the 2nd/3rd line with PP time. Lets face it the fact of the matter is it would be foolish long term cap wise to bring in the only forward (Hossa) who can "replace" Jagr. Therefore we basically have to come to the understanding that its make a run for the playoffs with Jagr or let him walk and face a year maybe two of potentially missing the playoffs. Anyway bottom line, I vote yes, bring back Jagr.

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05-12-2008, 04:10 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If the goal is to find a winger to play with Gomez (and I believe that this is the #1 priority of the offseason) you can't give Jagr whatever he wants. What are you really expecting from Jagr productions-wise?
I think Jagr will produce more than anyone available on the current free agent market not named Hossa.

So are you suggesting we target Hossa and break the bank for him? Sure, he'll probably work well with Gomez, but then you have about 30 million in cap space tied up in 4 players for the next 4 years. Not a very good situation when its time for Staal and Dubinsky to get raises.

The alternative is to go after Malone, Ryder, Rolston, or Huselius, which may actually leave enough room for Jagr.

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05-12-2008, 04:12 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hey I would love for Sather to be able to pull off a trade for a young sniper...but like I said, the names on our end for such a player wont be Prucha, Tyutin, Dawes, Callahan, etc. It would be more like Staal, Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, or Anisimov for starters. Some Ranger fans shudder at the thought of losing any of those players.
My point is you dont necessarily need a young sniper so to say. Besides, like you said what GM is going to trade one of those to get back essentially Ranger deadwood and a prospect/pick?

Find a diamond in the rough, find an experienced veteran that can score but hasnt really hit their potential. Yeah you might take a chance, but just like Jagr struggled to adapt to Gomer and Drury there might be a guy out there who can instantly click with them. Thats what the Rangers scouts are for. Look at Gionta. His numbers went south once Gomez left. Gomez makes players around him better. Get a guy who can skate and has a good shot. Doesnt have to be an all-star... but could be made into one...

Chariot casually mentioned Erik Cole. Hes not a bank buster or a roster buster. You may have to give up a piece, but he would fit somewhere in on the top two lines.

Hypothetically, if you could get two erik cole type players to hang out on the wings, that should definitely make up for Jagr and Straka's production while not giving the big man 2 years at around 6 per..and in the process you get younger.


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Old
05-12-2008, 04:22 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
My point is you dont necessarily need a young sniper so to say. Besides, like you said what GM is going to trade one of those to get back essentially Ranger deadwood and a prospect/pick?

Find a diamond in the rough, find an experienced veteran that can score but hasnt really hit their potential. Yeah you might take a chance, but just like Jagr struggled to adapt to Gomer and Drury there might be a guy out there who can instantly click with them. Thats what the Rangers scouts are for. Look at Gionta. His numbers went south once Gomez left. Gomez makes players around him better. Get a guy who can skate and has a good shot. Doesnt have to be an all-star... but could be made into one...

Chariot casually mentioned Erik Cole. Hes not a bank buster or a roster buster. You may have to give up a piece, but he would fit somewhere in on the top two lines.

Hypothetically, if you could get two erik cole type players to hang out on the wings, that should definitely make up for Jagr and Straka's production while not giving the big man 2 years at around 6 per..and in the process you get younger.
Ok, so lets go with the Erik Cole proposal for a moment. What would it take to get him? Probably not too much...lets say Prucha, Tyutin, and a pick. Why cant we then re-sign Jagr as well to play with Dubinsky? I actually think having Jagr, Dubinsky, Gomez, and Cole in our top 6 would make us pretty competitive for next year.

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05-12-2008, 04:25 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think Jagr will produce more than anyone available on the current free agent market not named Hossa.

So are you suggesting we target Hossa and break the bank for him? Sure, he'll probably work well with Gomez, but then you have about 30 million in cap space tied up in 4 players for the next 4 years. Not a very good situation when its time for Staal and Dubinsky to get raises.

The alternative is to go after Malone, Ryder, Rolston, or Huselius, which may actually leave enough room for Jagr.
Dubinsky gets a raise after this season... but he isn't going to get a $5mil/yr contract. in fact he probably will be lucky to get anything over $2.5mil per season. He isn't an elite player. He probably will sign a 3 yr $7 mil contract. Which would than take him through the rest of his RFA years, than sign a bigger contract when Drury gets off the books.

Staal probably won't get a monster contract either in 2 yrs. He will probably get a little more than Tyutin makes unless he explodes offensively. The same thing will happen to Staal as Dubinsky which means that his big contract will probably come right around the time Gomez is coming off the books.

Remember these players are RFA's and you can hold them off at least 1 yr if you take them to arbitration, than sign them for another 1 yr deal, if you want to do it that way.

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05-12-2008, 04:29 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ok, so lets go with the Erik Cole proposal for a moment. What would it take to get him? Probably not too much...lets say Prucha, Tyutin, and a pick. Why cant we then re-sign Jagr as well to play with Dubinsky? I actually think having Jagr, Dubinsky, Gomez, and Cole in our top 4 would make us pretty competitive for next year.
For argumentative purposes we go with a guy like Cole.

How much do you think Jagr is going to get if he resigns? 2 years 6mil each? more? deffered bonuses?

Whatever it is, he is most likely going to be tied up into the next 2 seasons. So now you still have Jagr at 38 getting top minutes, he'll have to with that kind of contract, right?

He is still conducting the PP. No thanks.

It might be a personal preference here, but as much as Jagr has brought to this team the past 3 seasons, hes going to be an albatross on that 09-10 season with no Straka's or Nylanders to support him. This is where its not only about money and point production for me. Its about the direction of the team as well. I'd rather get Gomez and Drury two guys they can really work with than holding onto Jagr, his contract, his style of play and having to get guys in here that "work with him" if he doesnt assimilate (for the second and possibly third season in a row mind you)


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Old
05-12-2008, 04:32 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Dubinsky gets a raise after this season... but he isn't going to get a $5mil/yr contract. in fact he probably will be lucky to get anything over $2.5mil per season. He isn't an elite player. He probably will sign a 3 yr $7 mil contract. Which would than take him through the rest of his RFA years, than sign a bigger contract when Drury gets off the books.

Staal probably won't get a monster contract either in 2 yrs. He will probably get a little more than Tyutin makes unless he explodes offensively. The same thing will happen to Staal as Dubinsky which means that his big contract will probably come right around the time Gomez is coming off the books.

Remember these players are RFA's and you can hold them off at least 1 yr if you take them to arbitration, than sign them for another 1 yr deal, if you want to do it that way.
I understand that, but say we sign Hossa and have that 30 mil per season tied up in Hossa, Gomez, Drury, and Lundqvist. An extra 1 or 2 million per season going to a guy like Staal or Dubinsky could bring us over the cap. Its that fine of a line when you're investing that much into less than 20% of your roster.

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05-12-2008, 04:38 PM
  #136
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the thing im noticing from the people against signing jagr is that they seem to think he is taking up a dpot for someone younger.....the problem is there is NO PLAYER on the rangers or in the system who is ready to play 1st line wing.....

with shanny, straka and possibly avery all leaing that opens up 2-3 spots for young forwards to take over.....and now people want jagr gone to make it 3-4 spots?....i understand people say lets make a trade or two, however if you dont resign jagr then you put yourself in a bad position of NEEDING a very good trade for a very good player....thats when other teams rob you of your youth and your future...to be realistic i think signing jagr and then either signing one FA or making one or two trades would make the line-up very formidable

jagr-dubi-FA/trade
FA/trade-gomez-dawes
callahan-drury-korpikoski
sjostrom-betts-orr

staal-FA/trade
tyutin-girardi
backman-potter/baranka

i dont see whats the big problem with giving jagr a spot?....for one or two years he would give the younger kids time to grow....you can just take a guy like dawes, in his first FULL year of playing in the nhl and throw him onto the top line and not expect growing pains....guys like dubinsky, callahan, sjostrom, korpikoski are good young players but you run the risk of killing their confidence by throwing them to the wolves...jagr provides a calming influence and eats tough minutes, even if his minutes go down to 18 minutes a game...thats 18 minutes against the other teams best defencemen....

would i like a trade...absolutely...players like suter, perry, kessel, pitkanen would be HUGE additions to this team for now and the fufutre, however i dont want sather to be put in a position of needing to make a trade, because i think it adds pressure and means he would give up more than needed...

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05-12-2008, 04:41 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
the thing im noticing from the people against signing jagr is that they seem to think he is taking up a dpot for someone younger.....the problem is there is NO PLAYER on the rangers or in the system who is ready to play 1st line wing.....

with shanny, straka and possibly avery all leaing that opens up 2-3 spots for young forwards to take over.....and now people want jagr gone to make it 3-4 spots?....i understand people say lets make a trade or two, however if you dont resign jagr then you put yourself in a bad position of NEEDING a very good trade for a very good player....thats when other teams rob you of your youth and your future...to be realistic i think signing jagr and then either signing one FA or making one or two trades would make the line-up very formidable

jagr-dubi-FA/trade
FA/trade-gomez-dawes
callahan-drury-korpikoski
sjostrom-betts-orr

staal-FA/trade
tyutin-girardi
backman-potter/baranka

i dont see whats the big problem with giving jagr a spot?....for one or two years he would give the younger kids time to grow....you can just take a guy like dawes, in his first FULL year of playing in the nhl and throw him onto the top line and not expect growing pains....guys like dubinsky, callahan, sjostrom, korpikoski are good young players but you run the risk of killing their confidence by throwing them to the wolves...jagr provides a calming influence and eats tough minutes, even if his minutes go down to 18 minutes a game...thats 18 minutes against the other teams best defencemen....

would i like a trade...absolutely...players like suter, perry, kessel, pitkanen would be HUGE additions to this team for now and the fufutre, however i dont want sather to be put in a position of needing to make a trade, because i think it adds pressure and means he would give up more than needed...
I think the problem is, if you sign Jagr it wont be for one year.

I could live with him signing for one year, anything more than that and its a detriment to the team IMO.

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05-12-2008, 04:44 PM
  #138
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Resign Jagr, then trade him the next day! Badabing badaboom.

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05-12-2008, 04:46 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I understand that, but say we sign Hossa and have that 30 mil per season tied up in Hossa, Gomez, Drury, and Lundqvist. An extra 1 or 2 million per season going to a guy like Staal or Dubinsky could bring us over the cap. Its that fine of a line when you're investing that much into less than 20% of your roster.
but it doesn't have to be. If you have Hossa, Gomez, Drury you will still have cheap contracts for Dubi, Korps, Ani, Cherry, Sjostrom, Dawes, Hillier, Hagelin etc as players come up, we don't really need to sign many more FA's if really any as we won't be losing that many players.

Defensively is the same thing. Tyutin and Girardi is signed, Staal won't cost us anything the next two years and than he probably won't break the bank right after. Than you have the rooks coming up in Sangs, Sauer, Barank w/in the next 1-3 yrs filling slots w/ cheap talent. The cap will keep raising probably by $2-4mil a year as well.

Also once our better youngins will start to command higher salaries Drury will be coming off the books followed shortly by Gomez than probably right after than will be hossa coming off the books.

Not only that but you don't know who we will be getting in the drafts. We could have more studs fall in our lap = more cheap labor for a couple years, or replacements for lost talent that we can't sign.

Also Hossa probably is the closest to being a guarantee to getting good production every year out of the other FA's.

Malone, Ryder, Rolston you arent guaranteed close to anything over the 3-4 yr contracts they will probably get.

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05-12-2008, 04:50 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I think the problem is, if you sign Jagr it wont be for one year.

I could live with him signing for one year, anything more than that and its a detriment to the team IMO.
but who will be ready in two years?....bourret?...cheraponov?....hillier?....an isimov?...dawes?....korpoikoski?.............most of those players will not be ready to play top line minutes in the nhl....or will still be in the ahl....i say 2 years maximum is good....if he can put up 70 points, which i think he can do more...it would be good for the young players because teams will still build game-plans around jagr....they will match up against jagr....allowing more room for the younger players...i say two years, give hime two more years with dubi, who he did help a lot this year....and give cheraponov a reason to work extremely hard to make the rangers in two years(jagrs second year) as he is his hero...

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05-12-2008, 04:53 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
but it doesn't have to be. If you have Hossa, Gomez, Drury you will still have cheap contracts for Dubi, Korps, Ani, Cherry, Sjostrom, Dawes, Hillier, Hagelin etc as players come up, we don't really need to sign many more FA's if really any as we won't be losing that many players.

Defensively is the same thing. Tyutin and Girardi is signed, Staal won't cost us anything the next two years and than he probably won't break the bank right after. Than you have the rooks coming up in Sangs, Sauer, Barank w/in the next 1-3 yrs filling slots w/ cheap talent. The cap will keep raising probably by $2-4mil a year as well.

Also once our better youngins will start to command higher salaries Drury will be coming off the books followed shortly by Gomez than probably right after than will be hossa coming off the books.

Not only that but you don't know who we will be getting in the drafts. We could have more studs fall in our lap = more cheap labor for a couple years, or replacements for lost talent that we can't sign.

Also Hossa probably is the closest to being a guarantee to getting good production every year out of the other FA's.

Malone, Ryder, Rolston you arent guaranteed close to anything over the 3-4 yr contracts they will probably get.
i agree with everything your saying however i would rather sign jagr for a year or two and allow the opportunity to make a significant trade with the surplus of talent the rangers have in the farm or sign a better player like kovalchuk, gaborik etc. who might hit free agency

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05-12-2008, 04:57 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i agree with everything your saying however i would rather sign jagr for a year or two and allow the opportunity to make a significant trade with the surplus of talent the rangers have in the farm or sign a better player like kovalchuk, gaborik etc. who might hit free agency
I don't think our players are good enough to package for a Kovy, unless we package like 4 of them and a 1st which might be just as bad.

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05-12-2008, 05:02 PM
  #143
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I don't think our players are good enough to package for a Kovy, unless we package like 4 of them and a 1st which might be just as bad.
then wait....i see no reason to give hossa a huge contract as he isnt the player they need....wait a couple of years to see who be comes available....see what players gain value and see who they could trade for...i really like the idea of getting suter and attempting to get perry....both of those would be the answers...however i say jagr is a stop-gap until a better winger becomes available...hossa is good, but not great

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05-12-2008, 06:41 PM
  #144
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As much as i love Jagr, i'm really starting to lean toward the: let him walk and sign Hossa to take over, option.

It really may be the best direction for the organization.

You get younger, you replace Jagr with someone with Jagr-esque production for the next 5+ years and someone who you can add to the younger veteran core of Gomez and Drury, while building around them with kids like Dubinsky, Cherepanov, and Anisimov (we are talking about forwards here, so i do not mention Staal, ect).

I feel this would be the best direction.

Just move on.

If you play it out correctly, you may be able to bring in someone like Cole or sign Malone with Straka and Shanny's money... or both.


Malone - Gomez - Hossa
Cole - Dubinsky - Cherepanov
Drury <-> Anisimov - Korpikoski
Callahan - Betts - Sjostrom

Would be a nice team in 2010.


note: <-> means that both could play either wing or center.

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05-12-2008, 07:43 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
As much as i love Jagr, i'm really starting to lean toward the: let him walk and sign Hossa to take over, option.

It really may be the best direction for the organization.

You get younger, you replace Jagr with someone with Jagr-esque production for the next 5+ years and someone who you can add to the younger veteran core of Gomez and Drury, while building around them with kids like Dubinsky, Cherepanov, and Anisimov (we are talking about forwards here, so i do not mention Staal, ect).

I feel this would be the best direction.

Just move on.

If you play it out correctly, you may be able to bring in someone like Cole or sign Malone with Straka and Shanny's money... or both.


Malone - Gomez - Hossa
Cole - Dubinsky - Cherepanov
Drury <-> Anisimov - Korpikoski
Callahan - Betts - Sjostrom

Would be a nice team in 2010.


note: <-> means that both could play either wing or center.
honestly i dont want malone....would rather sign ryder for 2 years or rolston.....although i would rather let a younger player get more playing time if jagr isnt resigned

2009:

ryder-gomez-hossa
drury-dubinsky-dawes
callahan-anisimov-korpikoski/sjostrom
korpikoski/sjostrom-betts/orr

hollweg, prucha traded for picks

staal-suter
girardi-tyutin
backman-potter/baranka

2010:

drury-gomez-hossa
bourret-dubinsky-dawes
cheraponov-anisimov-korpikoski
byers-betts-orr

callahan, sjostrom, pooter/branka traded for picks

staal-suter
girardi-tyutin
potter/baranka-sanguinetti


the problem with any of these is that the rangers havr too many players who are ready to play and signing more than one FA this summer clogs the system....

thinking off the top of my head of the players who will hopefully be ready by 2010:
byers
jessiman
bourret
baranka/potter
sauer
sanguinetti
cheraponov
korpikoski


thats a lot of players who will be battling for spots within the next two years.....players like callahan, dawes etc. who seem to be redundant types must be traded away....

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05-12-2008, 10:47 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
honestly i dont want malone....would rather sign ryder for 2 years or rolston.....although i would rather let a younger player get more playing time if jagr isnt resigned

2009:

ryder-gomez-hossa
drury-dubinsky-dawes
callahan-anisimov-korpikoski/sjostrom
korpikoski/sjostrom-betts/orr

hollweg, prucha traded for picks

staal-suter
girardi-tyutin
backman-potter/baranka

2010:

drury-gomez-hossa
bourret-dubinsky-dawes
cheraponov-anisimov-korpikoski
byers-betts-orr

callahan, sjostrom, pooter/branka traded for picks

staal-suter
girardi-tyutin
potter/baranka-sanguinetti


the problem with any of these is that the rangers havr too many players who are ready to play and signing more than one FA this summer clogs the system....

thinking off the top of my head of the players who will hopefully be ready by 2010:
byers
jessiman
bourret
baranka/potter
sauer
sanguinetti
cheraponov
korpikoski


thats a lot of players who will be battling for spots within the next two years.....players like callahan, dawes etc. who seem to be redundant types must be traded away....
Regarding your 2009 lineup: Ryder will not sign for only 2 years. Anisimov is not ready. Sanguinetti is certainly not ready. Cherepanov is going to be in Russia. Hossa has to want to play here, and we have to break the bank for him...and with that lineup what miracle trade are we going to pull off to get Suter over here?

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05-13-2008, 05:51 AM
  #147
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game 5 is the first time I have seen korpi play.
Does he have upside to be more than a 3rd line winger???? to pair him up with Jags.
I guess they are both RW.

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05-13-2008, 09:58 AM
  #148
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
but who will be ready in two years?....bourret?...cheraponov?....hillier?....an isimov?...dawes?....korpoikoski?.............most of those players will not be ready to play top line minutes in the nhl....or will still be in the ahl....i say 2 years maximum is good....if he can put up 70 points, which i think he can do more...it would be good for the young players because teams will still build game-plans around jagr....they will match up against jagr....allowing more room for the younger players...i say two years, give hime two more years with dubi, who he did help a lot this year....and give cheraponov a reason to work extremely hard to make the rangers in two years(jagrs second year) as he is his hero...
Two years is too long. Younger players? Dubinsky will be in his third year... and if any of those players haven't cracked the lineup yet (with the exception of maybe Cherry), then they don't deserve to be in the nhl.

There are other ways to get players through signings and trades you know... Why sign Jagr for over 12 million when you can get 2 younger players for that amount?

And the sentence i bolded.... the Rangers have built THEIR game plan around Jagr, for 3 years. Has it worked?

And do you think a 38 year old Jagr making 6 million or more in 2010 is going to be that player the other team HAS to shut down??

I'd love to record all of these comments because if he is signed for 2 years i want to bring these back up when everyone is calling to trade Jagr or buyout his contract next summer.

Its funny because i didnt hear anyone saying any of this until the last 3 months of the season when he turned it on. Where were all of you when he couldnt score a goal for a month?

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Old
05-13-2008, 01:18 PM
  #149
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Two years is too long. Younger players? Dubinsky will be in his third year... and if any of those players haven't cracked the lineup yet (with the exception of maybe Cherry), then they don't deserve to be in the nhl.

There are other ways to get players through signings and trades you know... Why sign Jagr for over 12 million when you can get 2 younger players for that amount?

And the sentence i bolded.... the Rangers have built THEIR game plan around Jagr, for 3 years. Has it worked?

And do you think a 38 year old Jagr making 6 million or more in 2010 is going to be that player the other team HAS to shut down??

I'd love to record all of these comments because if he is signed for 2 years i want to bring these back up when everyone is calling to trade Jagr or buyout his contract next summer.

Its funny because i didnt hear anyone saying any of this until the last 3 months of the season when he turned it on. Where were all of you when he couldnt score a goal for a month?
was i frustrated with hsi play?....absolutely....but the whole team looked bad......as i stated elsewhere, i never wanted to bring jagr back, however looking at the fact that the rangers may lose 4 of their top 6 forwards, i think something must bend and i would rather have him back than shanny or straka....

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Old
05-13-2008, 01:42 PM
  #150
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Yes, I'll take Jagr back...Shanny I want back t
o... Our shootout leader.

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