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Habs Draft Record Since Tmmins Joined Team

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05-14-2008, 01:01 PM
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FrankMTL
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Habs Draft Record Since Tmmins Joined Team

Check out the Habs draft record since Timmins joined the team in 2003! The following players have all played at least one game in the NHL. I have also added a couple that have a good chance of at least playing one game. It is too early to tell for 2006 and 2007 with any certainty.


-Carye Price (2005)
-Guillaume Latendresse (2005)
-Matt D'Agostini (2005)
-Sergei Kostitsyn (2005

-Kyle Chipchura (2004
-Mikhail Grabovski (2004)
-Greg Stewart (2004)
-Mark Streit (2004)
-Alexei Emelin (no NHL yet, but extremely promising)
-JT Wyman (Looked great last season in the NCAA)

-Andrei Kostitsyn (2003)
-Maxim Lapierre (2003)
-Ryan O'Byrne (2003)
-Corey Locke (2003)
-Jaroslav Halak (2003)

If you add in our last 2 drafts, it might even be better. We used to have one of the worst farm systems in the league..we've come a loooong way.

What a GREAT job Timmins had done!!

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05-14-2008, 01:07 PM
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It is a very nice list of players, plus like you said. Adding in the players from our last 2 drafts definitely makes for a very interesting future.

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05-14-2008, 01:08 PM
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Timmins is great. But we might want to stop looking by quantity of number of picks in the NHL and start looking for quality as well.

Wings are awful as far as quantity of picks in the NHL are concerned.....but they've been a force for the past how many years now because of guys like Lindstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I know that it's easier to judge by quantity 'cause actually you can't make judgment about it. But I believe that quality needs to kick in as well at one point to judge the work of a scouting group.

No contest that the quantity is downright impressive. But I would trade all of our 2003 draft picks for the Philly draft right now even if Philly could end up with only 2 picks in the NHL....

To judge a scout and his group it has to be quantity AND quality IMHO. And even with that way of judging, Timmins would rank quite up there anyway.

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05-14-2008, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Timmins is great. But we might want to stop looking by quantity of number of picks in the NHL and start looking for quality as well.

Wings are awful as far as quantity of picks in the NHL are concerned.....but they've been a force for the past how many years now because of guys like Lindstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I know that it's easier to judge by quantity 'cause actually you can't make judgment about it. But I believe that quality needs to kick in as well at one point to judge the work of a scouting group.

No contest that the quantity is downright impressive. But I would trade all of our 2003 draft picks for the Philly draft right now even if Philly could end up with only 2 picks in the NHL....

To judge a scout and his group it has to be quantity AND quality IMHO. And even with that way of judging, Timmins would rank quite up there anyway.
Imo theres a point where quantity will lead to quality. Drafting quality is often a luck thing. Look at Markov and Plekanec as good examples of that fact. When your consistent at the draft table and get 4 NHL players every year, your bound to get lucky in a big way.

Like in 2005, Sergei Kostitsyn might be a datsyuk quality player, its just to soon to say.

2007, Maxpac looks to be a big steal.
2006, Subban, Maxwell Could develop into big time players.

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05-14-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Imo theres a point where quantity will lead to quality. Drafting quality is often a luck thing. Look at Markov and Plekanec as good examples of that fact. When your consistent at the draft table and get 4 NHL players every year, your bound to get lucky in a big way.

Like in 2005, Sergei Kostitsyn might be a datsyuk quality player, its just to soon to say.

2007, Maxpac looks to be a big steal.
2006, Subban, Maxwell Could develop into big time players.
I agree with this. You're drafting players you think have the tool set to play in the NHL. A lot can happen after you draft players and those tools can develop much more then expected. Any way you look at it..if you're drafting 4-5 NHL calibre players per draft, you're doing a heck of a job!

Even out of the 2006 and 2007 drafts, you can see the potential is huge.

Out of the 2006 draft, 4 of our 6 draft picks have already been signed (Fischer and Cepek have not) and will play with Hamilton Bulldogs next year. Cepek is the only player out of that draft IMO..that probably won't play in the NHL. So again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but you have another potential 4-5 NHL guys coming out of that draft. Who knows..maybe one of them will explode next year in Hamilton and be a force..

2007 is still WAYYYY to early..but again, you see potential for 4 or 5 NHL players (McDo, Max Pac, PK Subban, Yannick Weber, Fortier "maybe" and Conboy "maybe")

Ryan McDo- Solid Freshman Year
Max Pac- Amazing freshman year (Rookie of the year in CCHA)
PK Subban- Very Solid year....Fantastic Playoffs, WJC as a 18 year old
Olivier Fortier- Decent year- defensive specialist. Won Guy Carbonneau award in the "Q"
Yannick Weber- Very good offensive year. Fantastic PP Quarterback potential
Joe Stejskal- Hits everything in sight...don't know about potential
Andrew Conboy- Tough Guy, leads USHL playoffs in Goals (whole league, not just team)
Nicklas Torp- Could be ok depth d-man...or never leave Europe
Scott Kishel- Don't see much if any potential


Last edited by FrankMTL: 05-14-2008 at 01:42 PM.
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05-14-2008, 02:00 PM
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I think the argument of quantity vs quality doesn't hold water. No matter how many picks Timmins has, he'll always be looking for quality players. That goes without saying.

I guess a good way of putting it would be that, considering how many quality prospects the Habs have, Timmins can now afford to look for major boom or bust type players in the coming drafts, instead of picking guys with limited ceilings but that are considered "safe" picks.

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05-14-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I think the argument of quantity vs quality doesn't hold water. No matter how many picks Timmins has, he'll always be looking for quality players. That goes without saying.

I guess a good way of putting it would be that, considering how many quality prospects the Habs have, Timmins can now afford to look for major boom or bust type players in the coming drafts, instead of picking guys with limited ceilings but that are considered "safe" picks.
I think thats a very fair statement.... I don't mind if we go for a couple of those in the first two rounds this year.... I wouldn't blame Timmons, Gainey etc... if they go for the high risk, potential high reward guy in the draft this year, the system is well stocked depth wise but we need an elite offensive talent, and at 25/55 that surefire offensive talent will not be there... but a high risk, high potential reward offensive talent might be.

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05-14-2008, 02:19 PM
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but a high risk, high potential reward offensive talent might be.
They took that approach with Kostistyn in 2003, and have been second guessed ever since.It's easier said than done.

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05-14-2008, 02:37 PM
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They took that approach with Kostistyn in 2003, and have been second guessed ever since.It's easier said than done.
That was at a time when the cupboard wasn't well stocked though. I think there is more lenancy right now due to their recent drafting success.

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05-14-2008, 02:48 PM
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I think we should also give credit to management who gave a chance to those players to show what they can do, unlike the Houle era where you were supposed to dominate the AHL just to have a snif with the Habs. I'm not saying Ward, Chouinard, Matt Higgins, Terry Ryan and brad Brown would be all stars today but they might be NHL players if the organisation would've given a chance to their prospects.

I'm not taking anything away from Timmins, he's great but I'm pretty sure Plekanec, Higgins would've rotten in the minors if Houle and Tremblay were still in charge. I think in the Habs case, the change in mentally from the management is a big part of the turn around this franchise made over the last few years.

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05-14-2008, 02:54 PM
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I think we should also give credit to management who gave a chance to those players to show what they can do, unlike the Houle era where you were supposed to dominate the AHL just to have a snif with the Habs. I'm not saying Ward, Chouinard, Matt Higgins, Terry Ryan and brad Brown would be all stars today but they might be NHL players if the organisation would've given a chance to their prospects.

I'm not taking anything away from Timmins, he's great but I'm pretty sure Plekanec, Higgins would've rotten in the minors if Houle and Tremblay were still in charge. I think in the Habs case, the change in mentally from the management is a big part of the turn around this franchise made over the last few years.
Very good point. Gainey has allowed his players to get chances and flourish in the right levels. Sergei is a good example. He saw the potential and skill in Sergei's game, so he brought him up. Sergei flourished in the role he was given and became a solid contributor to the team the rest of the year and the playoffs. The jury is still out on Latendresse, but I like what he has done with O'byrne, Chipchura, Price, Lapierre and Halak.

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05-14-2008, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I guess a good way of putting it would be that, considering how many quality prospects the Habs have, Timmins can now afford to look for major boom or bust type players in the coming drafts, instead of picking guys with limited ceilings but that are considered "safe" picks.
I disagree. We have a lot of quality defensive prospects, but on offense, we don't have anybody that really stands out other than MaxPac.
D'Agostini, Maxwell, Locke, Chipchura are all interesting but none of them are gonna be impact players IMO. Maybe Chipchura will become a great 3rd liner, but thats as far as it goes.

Our depth in terms of offense with prospects is not that great.
So i expect Timmins to be on the watch for interesting fowards for the next 2 drafts.

To be quite honest, nowadays, i don't think you can have the luxury of screwing up some draft picks. If you look at the salaries given to young players, we will part ways with some of our prospects. So its important to keep and always keep on drafting well.

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05-14-2008, 03:05 PM
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I think Detroit has had unusual foresight in drafting Europeans. IMO their European scouts are the best in the NHL. Besides Lidstrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg the Red Wings have Kronwall, Holmstrom, Franzen, Filppula, Hudler, Kopecky, and Samuelsson (and not a single Québécois, I may add).

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05-14-2008, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I disagree. We have a lot of quality defensive prospects, but on offense, we don't have anybody that really stands out other than MaxPac.
D'Agostini, Maxwell, Locke, Chipchura are all interesting but none of them are gonna be impact players IMO. Maybe Chipchura will become a great 3rd liner, but thats as far as it goes.

Our depth in terms of offense with prospects is not that great.
So i expect Timmins to be on the watch for interesting fowards for the next 2 drafts.

To be quite honest, nowadays, i don't think you can have the luxury of screwing up some draft picks. If you look at the salaries given to young players, we will part ways with some of our prospects. So its important to keep and always keep on drafting well.
Forward is deeper than you suggest but the 1st liners are not there.

MaxPac and Maxwell are the only potential impact offensive player (possible 1st liners) in the bunch....

White, Chipchura, D'Agostini, Stewart, project as third/fourth liners, maybe theres a second liner in that bunch, but the jury is out.

Trotter, Wyman, Conboy, are still projects and we really don't know what we have and if they will ever crack the NHL.

We need to go for a first line potential offensive prospect.

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05-14-2008, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by chaditude View Post
I think we should also give credit to management who gave a chance to those players to show what they can do, unlike the Houle era where you were supposed to dominate the AHL just to have a snif with the Habs. I'm not saying Ward, Chouinard, Matt Higgins, Terry Ryan and brad Brown would be all stars today but they might be NHL players if the organisation would've given a chance to their prospects.

I'm not taking anything away from Timmins, he's great but I'm pretty sure Plekanec, Higgins would've rotten in the minors if Houle and Tremblay were still in charge. I think in the Habs case, the change in mentally from the management is a big part of the turn around this franchise made over the last few years.
They did get their chances...even with other organization and coulden't crack their lineups. Face it, these kids were duds for the most part and just did not have the talent or luck or heart to play in the NHL.

Brad Brown did end up playing 330 games in the NHL. Jason Ward played 335 games in the NHL. Chouinard played 90 games. Terry Ryan was extremly talented and had great point totals in the WHL the year he got drafted (50G, 60A in 70 games) but I think he had concussion problems and well...Matt Higgins was just a bad choice. He has never done anything and can't even crack a point per game in the DEL

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05-14-2008, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
I think the argument of quantity vs quality doesn't hold water. No matter how many picks Timmins has, he'll always be looking for quality players. That goes without saying.

I guess a good way of putting it would be that, considering how many quality prospects the Habs have, Timmins can now afford to look for major boom or bust type players in the coming drafts, instead of picking guys with limited ceilings but that are considered "safe" picks.

Well....that what I meant when I said quality vs quantity. Of course he's always looking for quality. Chipchura is a quality prospect. But like you said, he was one of the safest with limited upside. So sure, he'll be an NHL'er and to one extent, you do need that type of player. But the Habs surely looks like the deepest organization as far as 3rd and 4th liners are concerned. We need to go for the homerun now.

I think it's time to go, maybe not for the whole draft, but for the guys who has 1 great quality with some flaws instead of being good everywhere. Obviously, a prospect that is good everywhere, might develop into being great everywhere and that's exactly what I think a guy like Deschamps might become. But a guy like Aaron Ness might fit the profile of the greatest more fluid skater of this whole draft but his defensive play might be questioned a lot though.

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05-14-2008, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Brieremania View Post
Forward is deeper than you suggest but the 1st liners are not there.

MaxPac and Maxwell are the only potential impact offensive player (possible 1st liners) in the bunch....

White, Chipchura, D'Agostini, Stewart, project as third/fourth liners, maybe theres a second liner in that bunch, but the jury is out.

Trotter, Wyman, Conboy, are still projects and we really don't know what we have and if they will ever crack the NHL.

We need to go for a first line potential offensive prospect.
Yes, thats what i was suggesting, aim 1st or 2nd liners. But because of our draft position, it will have to be a very well thought out decision.

Not a lets pick and its 50/50 chance.

But i guess in a draft, it always comes down to some luck as well.

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05-14-2008, 04:04 PM
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Yes, thats what i was suggesting, aim 1st or 2nd liners. But because of our draft position, it will have to be a very well thought out decision.

Not a lets pick and its 50/50 chance.

But i guess in a draft, it always comes down to some luck as well.
I think by the time we pick any surefire offensive stars will be gone.... everyone is gonna either be a safer lower line prospect or a risky top liner....

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05-14-2008, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Brieremania View Post
I think by the time we pick any surefire offensive stars will be gone.... everyone is gonna either be a safer lower line prospect or a risky top liner....
Its not that bad, with the young team we have, we are better off with projects.

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05-14-2008, 04:14 PM
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Its not that bad, with the young team we have, we are better off with projects.
I've been suggesting for a while that we go total boom or bust with this pick.

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05-14-2008, 04:39 PM
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To find that later selection gem means the kid will have some flaw, and the most glaring could be...size.It seems that 29 other teams are allowed to pick a 5'10 170lb sniper, but not Montreal, because only is Montreal the smallest team ever to play in NHL history,or so goes the media narrative.Ideally, that puckhandling and scoring ace has an all natural growth spurt and turns into the next Zetterberg.Keep in mind that Zetterberg was small and slight when drafted.

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05-14-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Brieremania View Post
I've been suggesting for a while that we go total boom or bust with this pick.
I would have to agree. Go for a Hossa, Havlat, Datsyuk etc and draft the goofballs later.

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05-14-2008, 06:08 PM
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Is it just me or are we pretty much all in agreement here?

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05-14-2008, 06:10 PM
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I think we could give a shot to a russian like Evgeni Grachev...he's a huge risk, but the reward might be huge also. Depends on where we think he'll go. That is, if Nemisz is long gone and Deschamps is also. Those 2 look very promising.

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05-14-2008, 06:16 PM
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Price, Kostitsyns, Streit, Chips, Grabs, Emelin, J.T, Jaro, O'Byrne

What sleeper picks! This guy is a magician, make some magic happen this draft Houdimmins!

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