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Old
05-14-2008, 02:06 PM
  #101
ECL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469 View Post
for bouwmeester?? i can hear florida laughing already.

if people seriously want to go after bouwmeester START your package with marc staal and 2 1st rounders. florida isn't giving us bouwmeester for a pile of garbage.
They would never bring back ****ing Staal and 1 st rounders for J-Bo. You even mentioning that is straight up laughable.

Replace Staal with Sanguinetti and that's a more realistic expectation for Florida.

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05-14-2008, 02:09 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The UFA market defensemen is certainly better than it is for forwards.
neither is that great though. That's the problem.

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05-14-2008, 02:13 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Thats the thing. Nobody knows if AA is going to be the real deal or not. They can speculate, and he certainly has the talent and size, but we won't know until he gets some time in the NHL. Do we move Dubi now in a package for a guy like J-Bo, or do we hold onto him while AA gets some NHL experience on a 2nd or 3rd line wing?
I would just make AA the centerpiece of the JBo trade.

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05-14-2008, 02:19 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
neither is that great though. That's the problem.
I don't know. I see a lot more defensemen that fill a need than I do forwards.

Jason Smith
Mattias Norstom
Wade Redden
Brooks Orpick
Rob Blake
John-Michael Liles
Ron Hainsey
Brad Stuart

That's 8 right there. Not sure there are 8 UFA forwards that fit that well.

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05-14-2008, 02:23 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't know. I see a lot more defensemen that fill a need than I do forwards.

Jason Smith
Mattias Norstom
Wade Redden
Brooks Orpick
Rob Blake
John-Michael Liles
Ron Hainsey
Brad Stuart

That's 8 right there. Not sure there are 8 UFA forwards that fit that well.
i'm not arguing that that the UFA defensement are better, b/c I believe they are I was just saying that even out of the UFA defensemen none really stand out to me saying "We have to get him". This years FA crop as a whole just doesn't really impress me much. I think alot of players are going to receive way to much compensation for what they bring.

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05-14-2008, 02:24 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't know. I see a lot more defensemen that fill a need than I do forwards.

Jason Smith
Mattias Norstom
Wade Redden
Brooks Orpick
Rob Blake
John-Michael Liles
Ron Hainsey
Brad Stuart

That's 8 right there. Not sure there are 8 UFA forwards that fit that well.
Ehhh, Norstrom has been pretty bad lately I believe. Same with Blake. Wouldn't want either of them.

So 6. But I still would be hard pressed to find 6 forwards who fit the needs of the team more than the other 6 defensemen on that last.

My plan:

Sign Stuart and Orpik. Add a forward such as Langkow. Stay away from Hossa and Malone (unless Sather REALLY feels that Marian Hossa is the answer -- and I'd like to actually hear his reasoning as well).

Either waive or keep Backman as a healthy scratch. Re-sign Mara for maybe a 500K increase over what he's getting (and I cannot foresee him getting anymore than that. Let Rozsival walk far, far away.

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05-14-2008, 02:25 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
i'm not arguing that that the UFA defensement are better, b/c I believe they are I was just saying that even out of the UFA defensemen none really stand out to me saying "We have to get him". This years FA crop as a whole just doesn't really impress me much. I think alot of players are going to receive way to much compensation for what they bring.
I think part of the mentality of UFAs is saying "we have to get him." To me, UFAs should be looked at as "He really fills a need and makes the team better."

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05-14-2008, 02:33 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I would just make AA the centerpiece of the JBo trade.
You might want to do that, but I doubt the Panthers do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't know. I see a lot more defensemen that fill a need than I do forwards.

Jason Smith
Mattias Norstom
Wade Redden
Brooks Orpik
Rob Blake
John-Michael Liles
Ron Hainsey
Brad Stuart

That's 8 right there. Not sure there are 8 UFA forwards that fit that well.
Agreed. I'm still holding out hope for Stuart, but he mentioned in the media a week or so ago that he was liking Detroit and was hoping to stop his team-hoping.

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05-14-2008, 02:42 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Ehhh, Norstrom has been pretty bad lately I believe. Same with Blake. Wouldn't want either of them.

So 6. But I still would be hard pressed to find 6 forwards who fit the needs of the team more than the other 6 defensemen on that last.

My plan:

Sign Stuart and Orpik. Add a forward such as Langkow. Stay away from Hossa and Malone (unless Sather REALLY feels that Marian Hossa is the answer -- and I'd like to actually hear his reasoning as well).

Either waive or keep Backman as a healthy scratch. Re-sign Mara for maybe a 500K increase over what he's getting (and I cannot foresee him getting anymore than that. Let Rozsival walk far, far away.
See I have one problem w/ signing all these decent players. How long? Remember we will have Sangs, Sauer, maybe potter/Baranka (if not in Russia) and maybe another Dman from thsi years draft that will probably be ready in 2-3 yrs. Will these players sign 1 or 2 yr contracts? I don't want any of these stopgap players such as Stuart, Orpik, Malone (who is overrated), Rolston, Ryder on the team for 3-5 yrs. the Only player I would sign for over 2 yrs would be Hossa, b/c he still will put up 80+ pts 5 yrs from now if healthy. Problem w/ him is money.

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05-14-2008, 02:44 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think part of the mentality of UFAs is saying "we have to get him." To me, UFAs should be looked at as "He really fills a need and makes the team better."
thats a very good point.

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05-14-2008, 02:49 PM
  #111
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IMO from the rangers it would take something along the lines of:

A 1st, conditional 1st or 2nd depending on whether Bouwemeester resigns, Callahan, Dawes, Wikman for Bouwmeester and a mid-level draft pick (4th) and a below average prospect just for kicks

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05-14-2008, 02:57 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by WeSt_CoAsT_eXpReSs View Post
IMO from the rangers it would take something along the lines of:

A 1st, conditional 1st or 2nd depending on whether Bouwemeester resigns, Callahan, Dawes, Wikman for Bouwmeester and a mid-level draft pick (4th) and a below average prospect just for kicks
Nope, other teams can match the draft picks, and as much as i like Cally & Dawes, other teams can match or beat that with more established players.

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05-14-2008, 02:57 PM
  #113
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Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to guess as to what it's going to take unless you're in the room with the Panthers management.

They might demand the farm, but they might not. You could offer up Tyutin, Dawes, Wiikman / Leneveu and our 1st in 08 and they'd jump all over it. Those players might address a need that fans don't see. Then again, they might just laugh at you. I think all of this bickering about "You're all stupid.. that won't be nearly enough" or "Thats way too much!!" is pretty ridiculous. You don't know what the other team wants, so why posture at it?

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05-14-2008, 03:05 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to guess as to what it's going to take unless you're in the room with the Panthers management.

They might demand the farm, but they might not. You could offer up Tyutin, Dawes, Wiikman / Leneveu and our 1st in 08 and they'd jump all over it. Those players might address a need that fans don't see. Then again, they might just laugh at you. I think all of this bickering about "You're all stupid.. that won't be nearly enough" or "Thats way too much!!" is pretty ridiculous. You don't know what the other team wants, so why posture at it?
very true, especially we don't know how badly or not Bouwmeester wants out of there. If he is extremely upset at staying and not going to sign you could get him for cheaper, of course then their will be alot inquiries about him to drive the price up. so then you end up back at square one of not know how much it will actually cost until FLA tells you. So there is actually no point to this post. Sorry for wasting your time.

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05-14-2008, 03:10 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Honestly, I think you'd be hard pressed to guess as to what it's going to take unless you're in the room with the Panthers management.

They might demand the farm, but they might not. You could offer up Tyutin, Dawes, Wiikman / Leneveu and our 1st in 08 and they'd jump all over it. Those players might address a need that fans don't see. Then again, they might just laugh at you. I think all of this bickering about "You're all stupid.. that won't be nearly enough" or "Thats way too much!!" is pretty ridiculous. You don't know what the other team wants, so why posture at it?
Its not rocket science though. Like I said earlier, if Anaheim comes to the Cats and offers Bobby Ryan and Mark Mitera that already beats our picks/Prucha/Tyutin. Remember, you're not just trying to beat the Xbox simulator, there are at least 10 other teams who could beat our offer of depth players.

FLA has to justify the trade to their fans, so they will want an established player + a high end prospect or picks or both.

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05-14-2008, 03:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
very true, especially we don't know how badly or not Bouwmeester wants out of there. If he is extremely upset at staying and not going to sign you could get him for cheaper, of course then their will be alot inquiries about him to drive the price up. so then you end up back at square one of not know how much it will actually cost until FLA tells you. So there is actually no point to this post. Sorry for wasting your time.
I'm not saying proposals are bad, I'm just saying that nobody really has the place to call a bunch of other people out and say they're being irrational. You never know what will happen.

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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Its not rocket science though. Like I said earlier, if Anaheim comes to the Cats and offers Bobby Ryan and Mark Mitera that already beats our picks/Prucha/Tyutin. Remember, you're not just trying to beat the Xbox simulator, there are at least 10 other teams who could beat our offer of depth players.

FLA has to justify the trade to their fans, so they will want an established player + a high end prospect or picks or both.
I understand that. I'm just saying that you can assume a team is looking to fill hole a b and c in their lineup, but they could come out of the blue and make a deal that might not make sense until they make one or two other deals.

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05-14-2008, 04:04 PM
  #117
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sanguinetti, dawes, prucha, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08
for
bouwmeester


anisimov, dawes, prucha, hillier, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08
for
weber

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05-14-2008, 04:11 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
sanguinetti, dawes, prucha, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08
for
bouwmeester


anisimov, dawes, prucha, hillier, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08
for
weber
Those trades would be logistical nightmares for the Preds. You can only have so many players signed and they'll have to take roster spots from guys already on the team or in the minors, thats why you rarely see 5-7 assets get traded for one.

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05-14-2008, 05:47 PM
  #119
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Anisimov/Sanguinetti/Cherepanov, Tyutin/Girardi, 1st in 2008, 2nd in 2009 for Bouwmeester

Anisimov/Sanguinetti/Cherepanov, Korpikoski/Dawes/Callahan, 1st in 2008, 1st in 2009 for Weber

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05-14-2008, 06:18 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
tyutin, dawes, bourret, wiikman, 1st 08

??
Just... no.

Bourret and Wiikman have very little value right now.

Bourret has struggled at the AHL level, and is bordering on bust status. Wiikman is a relatively unknown product to most, and hasn't had enough of a sample size to prove himself. I don't see him being a starter at the NHL level anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Always take proven talent over potential.

That said, here's my offer:

Sanguinetti, Callahan, Wiikman, 2nd '08, 1st '09.
Your offer lacks proven talent, as it has none in it.

If you're talking about players who have played at the NHL when you say proven talent, there's slim picking with Callahan being the only one, and he hasn't been a world-beater, as much as we all like him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
If Mike Green is better than Bouwmeester, than Joe Corvo is the best defenseman in the league.


I really can't understand why some people say the things they do on here... I just can't take it seriously sometimes.

With that being said, I like your approach to it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't know. I see a lot more defensemen that fill a need than I do forwards.

Jason Smith
Mattias Norstom
Wade Redden
Brooks Orpick
Rob Blake
John-Michael Liles
Ron Hainsey
Brad Stuart

That's 8 right there. Not sure there are 8 UFA forwards that fit that well.
A big hell no to Rob Blake. He's practically done. His movements can now be timed with a sundial, I want no part of him, especially for the price he'll want.

Norstrom is a question mark, he's never been the greatest skater, but his defensive smarts and willingness to battle are exceptional. He's still effective, but it depends on what he wants and for how long.

Liles could be a cheaper alternative to puck-moving defenders like Redden and Campbell. I never really liked Hainsey, as he was brutal in Montreal, and didn't have much pressure to perform in Columbus. Reminds me a lot of how the Javier Vasquez situation with the Expos... had no pressure to perform, came to the Yankees and sucked when it mattered the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Anisimov/Sanguinetti/Cherepanov, Tyutin/Girardi, 1st in 2008, 2nd in 2009 for Bouwmeester
Sanguinetti, Girardi, 1st in 08, 2nd in 09 sounds very fair to me.

Quote:
Anisimov/Sanguinetti/Cherepanov, Korpikoski/Dawes/Callahan, 1st in 2008, 1st in 2009 for Weber
Anisimov, Tyutin, Dawes, 1st in 08

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05-14-2008, 07:04 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Sanguinetti, Girardi, 1st in 08, 2nd in 09 sounds very fair to me.



Anisimov, Tyutin, Dawes, 1st in 08
To me as well.

But I'd give Florida their choice of our 3 top prospects.

I think that makes it a tad bit fairer.

And that probably gets a deal done.

On the Weber deal, if you don't want to include a 1st in 2009, make it a 2nd.

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05-14-2008, 07:13 PM
  #122
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nashville doesnt want 3rd and 4th liners and they dont want defenceman as they are stacked in both areas, i have asked their fans....anisimov or cheraponov might interest them though

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05-14-2008, 07:47 PM
  #123
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Dubinsky, Dawes + 1st 08

Suter/Weber/Bouwmeester + 2nd 09

Then we hope and pray that AA can make the jump to the NHL out of training camp this year.



...

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05-14-2008, 07:54 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
sanguinetti, dawes, prucha, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08
for
bouwmeester


anisimov, dawes, prucha, hillier, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08
for
weber

Would you give up Lundqvist for that? I wouldn't. I wouldn't give him up for anything but if he wanted out and we had to deal him, I would start asking about A) Staal B) Cherpanov C) Tytuin..ect...ect...

Meet in the middle...

1st 08, 1st 09, Tyutin, Dubinsky, Dawes, Bourret & Prucha.

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05-14-2008, 08:47 PM
  #125
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If I'm the Rangers, I hold onto the 1st rounder in 09 for dear life. The deals Coldshot proposed seem about right.

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