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Slashes to the face

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05-11-2008, 04:29 PM
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Slashes to the face

Just wondering...As this happened to a team mate today in the playoff final, but how long would you give a slash to the face with intent?

The slash was a two hander, swung like a hatchet to the players face after the whistle, and he cut his chin (he was wearing a full cage, wire must have hit his chin) and the referee saw it. My team mate retaliated by pushing the player away when he skated towards him, and got a 5 minute roughing call and the other player got 10 minutes.

Surely he should have had more?

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05-11-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balmer15 View Post
Just wondering...As this happened to a team mate today in the playoff final, but how long would you give a slash to the face with intent?

The slash was a two hander, swung like a hatchet to the players face after the whistle, and he cut his chin (he was wearing a full cage, wire must have hit his chin) and the referee saw it. My team mate retaliated by pushing the player away when he skated towards him, and got a 5 minute roughing call and the other player got 10 minutes.

Surely he should have had more?
That should have been a match! That is an assult with a weapon and it will hold up in court. The only sad part is, it makes the game look bad.

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05-11-2008, 04:56 PM
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That's what I thought!It was their best player too...who went on to score the tying goal, and one in overtime. Did the same thing not happen in the NHL and they got fines or something?

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05-11-2008, 05:23 PM
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That's what I thought!It was their best player too...who went on to score the tying goal, and one in overtime. Did the same thing not happen in the NHL and they got fines or something?
I'm pretty sure if the Ref sees it in the NHL you are out for the match, a suspension and a fine under video review (I don't know if you have that or not)

But if you have a Ref who saw it, there should be a long suspension and maybe even an allegation of assault.

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05-11-2008, 05:39 PM
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Yeah the refs weren't good today, and there was no recording of it, as its u16 and consent wasnt given.The refs really should have seen it though, the courts tiny (about 40 feet by 20, if even) so one should be watching the play, the other watching the rest.

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05-11-2008, 05:47 PM
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the last time a guy purposely hit me with his stick the refs let me pummel him then threw him out of the game and gave me a TWO minute roughing penalty. then the rink called the cops on him.( i didn't press charges.)any way he gave me a concussion , knocked one of my teeth loose, and cut the inside of my mouth pretty good.he was the joke of the league for a long time after that because he turtled .and kept saying he didn't want to fight me AFTER he hit me across the side of the head with a two hander.what a loser.

the next time i played against him i ran him from about twenty feet and his equipment went in every direction . total yard sale!LOL!!!!the refs gave me another two minute call which was well worth it. and he still yapped after that .some guys never learn.


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05-11-2008, 05:51 PM
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That's the way it SHOULD be!No 5 minute roughing calls for pushing someone who just assaulted you away!

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05-11-2008, 10:45 PM
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I think this is a huge problem in the majority of rec leagues where the officiating is just beyond terrible. They don't even know how to respond to something that obviously does not even belong in the game of hockey, just an act of pure violence. Offenders think they can get away with it because it happens during a 'hockey game' and sadly, they often do.

If that happens, the cops should be called on him and he should be banned from the rink as well as the remainder of the season. That's what would happen here anyway, possibly more. The problem is that some players don't even know the rules themselves either, and so can't challenge any wrongdoing effectively. I also do wonder at times if players actually realize what is viewed as 'part of hockey' or just pure neanderthalic stupidity.

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05-11-2008, 10:48 PM
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If anyone ever tried something like that on anyone on my team he'd have ten guys on top of him in 5 seconds flat.. No place in hockey whatsoever for garbage like that.

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05-11-2008, 10:56 PM
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when it's beer league or adult rec league... don't take **** from anyone. every man for himself and u cant depend on the refs to make things better.

as for your question... the kid should have received a match penalty and put under review by the league. not allowed to play a game until the league has spoken to him. 30 days at the least IMO.

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05-11-2008, 11:47 PM
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Any place I know of around in NJ, anything that isn't a minor penalty is 90% of the time a game. And game misconducts get reviewed for expulsion from the rink. That should have easily been game, and expulsion if it was blatant and intentional.

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05-12-2008, 01:07 AM
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Match for attempt to injure.

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05-12-2008, 01:08 AM
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That's what I thought!It was their best player too...who went on to score the tying goal, and one in overtime. Did the same thing not happen in the NHL and they got fines or something?
Chris Simon on Ryan Hollweg. I believe he didn't press charges. But Simon was obviously fined by the league as well as being suspended.

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05-12-2008, 09:27 AM
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That should have been a match penalty with a thorough write up on the score sheet by the ref. The ref should also have filed an incident report with the league/officiating organization. The match penalty is an automatic suspension that should then be reviewed the league to possibily lengthen it or even expell the kid from the league.

In adult/beer any rink that is decent, I know there may not be too many, should immediately expel the player from the game and then kick him out of the league permamently. That is a huge liability issue for the rink ownership. The guy just proved he is off his rocker by taking a baseball swing at somebody's head. Allowing that individual to play again just opens the door for a repeat occurence followed by a huge lawsuit against the rink.

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05-12-2008, 10:48 AM
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Refs in our league are abysmal, in 2 years I've played in it...there has been a total of 2 hours referee coaching. About 20 other players (to my knowledge) including myself, had put their names forward to have another training day, and no such thing has happened.

The game was a disgrace to the game of hockey. Someone my size, (6 3 or so) checked a small guy not even 5 6 into the boards...in Inline!And when we did the same to someone who was the same size as us, and not half as hard, 2 minutes.If i had been refing a game that was going that way i would have abandoned the game, no point playing when one team can only try and scrape a win by trying to kill their opponents players. The rink doesn't help either, you try and get away from being marked, and no matter where you skate there will always be another player taking up that space.

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05-12-2008, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droller View Post
when it's beer league or adult rec league... don't take **** from anyone. every man for himself and u cant depend on the refs to make things better.

as for your question... the kid should have received a match penalty and put under review by the league. not allowed to play a game until the league has spoken to him. 30 days at the least IMO.
Slippery slope. In my experience it's never an eye for an eye. It's more like a concussion for a harmless slash. It's probably the biggest reason why I don't play in beer leagues anymore. I don't need to get crossed checked from behind into the boards just because I made some stick on stick contact. There is always that guy that totally flips out over the littlest things.

The refs have to make sure things don't get out of hand. If they aren't doing so then they league needs to step in and replace them. Which is a major problem because the people running the league tend to only show up to collect money.

You two hand swing at someones head, make contact or not. You should be tossed from the league forever, I don't care what league or what level you are playing at.

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05-14-2008, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by vexXed View Post
I think this is a huge problem in the majority of rec leagues where the officiating is just beyond terrible. They don't even know how to respond to something that obviously does not even belong in the game of hockey, just an act of pure violence.
Let me explain something in regards to officiating rec hockey. The officials you get are the guys who are taking their free time to allow you to play. The vast majority of those guys are old, possibly fat and they probably don't give a **** about the game, and no offence, but why should they? I reffed rec hockey for 3 years, starting at 19 years old. I wanted the money, but I still put the same effort into those games as I did Midget AAA. I called the penalties I had to, and I was still met with abuse that was 10 times worse than what I endured when I lined Jr.A games.

I wasn't about to spend my evenings reffing that garbage when the abuse was a guarantee every game. Our local rec league couldn't pay me enough to go back.

Another point to consider is that (at least in my area), if you're officiating any decent sanctioned league (Midget AAA and up), those leagues tell their officials not to do rec hockey. It creates bad habits on the ice and it can mess with your availability to the sanctioned league.

Bottom line, rec hockey is played by grown men. There comes a time where you need to act like an adult and control yourself. I don't understand what about a hockey stick and helmet turns a lot of adults into babies.

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05-14-2008, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
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I don't understand what about a hockey stick and helmet turns a lot of adults into babies.
You mean...Maniacs!

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05-14-2008, 09:49 PM
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If that happend to me I would find it rather hard to contain myself from beating the living hell out of the guy. If it happend to a teammate of mine I would step in and throw some knuckles. there is no room for fighting in rec leagues but the guy needs to learn a lesson other than getting booted.

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05-15-2008, 08:34 AM
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The officials you get are the guys who are taking their free time to allow you to play. The vast majority of those guys are old, possibly fat and they probably don't give a **** about the game, and no offence, but why should they?
Because they are the only ones the ice getting paid to be there. Everybody else is paying for the privilege to play. And we all have to get up and go to work the next day, at least those of us that aren't independently wealthy anyway.

A newer rink, actually a country club rink, just opened a men's league to the public this year. It is the best run league I have seen. The guy running it is a former AHL linesman and doesn't put up with any sh**. In fact, just two games into the opening session he kicked a team out. That program will max out it's available ice in no time. I have no desire to go back to the other rink's program where they let people get away with murder before kicking them out.

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05-15-2008, 05:43 PM
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Here here! when you put on the stripes you have to live up to it. There is no reason a Ref, even rec, should have to take any abuse. The ref can eject any player/team but they choose not to for the most part. There are two local houses for Rec hockey here. Street and roller as well as 2 rinks for adult mens and womens ice. The ice play is much better but Roller and Floor at one location is brutal. American indoor is well known for its ZERO tolerance. Mil-sher is well known for its LACK of enforcement.

All a Ref need do is start ejecting the players who abuse them...word travels fast. Adults should be able to control themselves. As for the Refs being abused constantly, I blame the Ref. It is their failure to control/stop abuse of themselves and participants that invariably makes their job and our games so miserable. It is well with in ANY Refs ability to assure that they are treated with the respect that is generally due them. The rules are written for all to read. ENFORCE THEM or take off the stripes.

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05-15-2008, 05:51 PM
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That's true!And if you're a strict ref, should you not play clean too?The highest PIM's was awarded to the most strict ref...he gave me 4 minutes for slashing someones shin!But what annoys me the most would be inconsistancy, it's rife in the NIIHA, some refs call everything, some call nothing. In our league's case more referee 'classes' would be needed.

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05-15-2008, 11:16 PM
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I useually like a ref that lets a bit go. it is hockey but when you start to take liberties on people or the ref thats got to stop. I rack up quite abit of pims. hints the name. But I like to bump and rub a bit but never have gone out and slashed someone across the arms or face. like I said before they guy that did that would be hurting and I wouldnt care if I was suspended or not he would learn his lesson and never do it agian. when the guy hurt my knee and I went thru physical therapy and surgery I never hit a guy so hard and challenged him and after he scraped his body off the ice he never hit me or anyone else agian. self governing works but has to be stopped at a certian point.

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05-17-2008, 12:27 AM
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Because they are the only ones the ice getting paid to be there. Everybody else is paying for the privilege to play. And we all have to get up and go to work the next day, at least those of us that aren't independently wealthy anyway.
Referees have to get up the next day to go to work too. What referees get paid at the rink is more or less pocket change. It's not enough to consider it a job.

I understand your point. You have to work for your living, so you don't want to get hurt. That said, you have to realize that the referees you get in adult rec hockey are doing it as a hobby. If somebody slashes you in the face, charge him with assault with a weapon, whether the referees call anything or not.

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All a Ref need do is start ejecting the players who abuse them...word travels fast. Adults should be able to control themselves. As for the Refs being abused constantly, I blame the Ref. It is their failure to control/stop abuse of themselves and participants that invariably makes their job and our games so miserable. It is well with in ANY Refs ability to assure that they are treated with the respect that is generally due them. The rules are written for all to read. ENFORCE THEM or take off the stripes.
The whole "referees lost control" excuse is just that.. an excuse for not controlling yourself. This is RECREATIONAL hockey, not the NHL. We can call all the penalties in the world, and it's not going to stop a player from doing what he wants to do when he is not controlling his own actions.

Don't think that tossing players for abusing you is going to stop it. The last time I tossed a rec player for the abuse, I ended up having to toss half his team right then and there because it just brought on more abuse. Then I got chewed out by the guy who ran the league. He told me I need to take more abuse and let the players play... so I said, "go **** yourself and find another referee".

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That's true!And if you're a strict ref, should you not play clean too?
I wasn't a clean player when I played and reffed at the same time. I would take my opportunities to make life hell for forwards in front of my goaltender's crease. I used my stick to lay bruises on legs as much as I did for breakout passes and shots on goal. I also never said a damn word to a referee when I got caught. There are limits though. If you get suspended as a play. (That's actually the rule in BC Hockey.) If you ever get a penalty for abuse of official, you should be done, period.

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05-17-2008, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
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I also never said a damn word to a referee when I got caught. There are limits though.

Yeah sorry that's what I meant, wasn't too clear there. If you're a referee, and get caught you should know there's no point chirping about it, but most (in my league) do. Players should know the rules too. Last season we had a guy didn't know a single rule about hockey, and had been playing for a few years, he had NO idea what a slash was...yet he always got called for it.

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