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Old
05-15-2008, 08:10 PM
  #51
CM Lundqvist
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Darth... you and I usually butt heads on a lot of issues, but this is an excellent post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I sometimes wonder if SOME (as in a very small number) Toronto fans simply don't understand anything about geography outside the Toronto metro area.

MSG is actually a bit easier to reach from most parts of the LI than where the Isles play (because it is reachable via train etc). Even by car, there is not much difference. In fact, there wouldn't be much difference between where NJ plays and where the Isles play. So, this is absolutely incorrect.
The Meadowbrook and Hempstead Turnpike at Rush Hour before a Ranger/Islander game...

Quote:
I also doubt that McCabe would want to go to a potential losing team over a playoff team in a much more glitzy locale.

Finally, I doubt that McCabe, even with the NMC, gets to tell the Leafs which team "he prefers" to go to.
I know McCabe's wife is from around here, as a co-worker of mine lives right next door to where she lives, and is good friends with Bryan himself. He actually went to a Linkin Park concert with him last summer.

Quote:
He makes six million next year, with a cap hit of 5.75 million. And, yeah he'll cost. But, the prices most Ranger fans are offering here is quite close to being fair. Certainly more fair than all this stuff built around the likes of Staal, etc.

This is the same player who Fletcher said there was "no interest in" around the league, and the same player that Garth Snow said he had never considered trading for? When exactly did McCabe's value (on ice and on the trade market) go through such a radical change?

Sorry, but Ranger fans here are being quite realistic in their perceptions of McCabe's market value.
I don't know how they can all of a sudden think that a defenseman that was so maligned and had a "mistake of a contract" according to some Leaf fans can be worth Staal and then some.

Utterly ridiculous.

Quote:
I'll go beyond that. If McCabe were willing to waive his NMC to come to the Rangers, and if Sather wants him, a 2nd rounder and prospect/lessor player would be more than enough to get it done. In fact, if the first two conditions had been met before the deadline, McCabe would probably be a Ranger right now.
I think Backman and a 2nd rounder would be good, but I'd be willing to give them Backman and a prospect or Prucha as well.

He makes 3.5 mill next year, but his cap hit is less. They save about 3 million, and get a competent defenseman in return, plus they could get a prospect or maybe a guy like Prucha.

I think it's more than fair.

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Old
05-15-2008, 08:13 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
1) He's not old. He'll be 33.

2) He had 23 points (which would have been second best on our defense) despite playing only 54 games. And he did that on a bad team.

3) What would it really take to get him? Not top prospects.

I think he makes some sense.
His point totals were down, but he really shored up his defensive play last season. Our record with him in the line up speaks for it's self. I for one want to keep him and Kaberle & trade Kubina.

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05-15-2008, 08:15 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Leafs fan here....

We don't want Backman the reason we are trading McCabe is to get rid of our garbage we dont want any back

In all reality the deal would most likely be....

1st and Prucha

now i know none of you would make that deal but I think thats what he would go for


haha a 1st your dilusional if you think you'll get that from the rangers, and if sather gave that he should be stoned to death.

you just say we want rid of our garbage then ask for a 1st and prucha, typical leafs proposal. you can keep him. i certainly dont want him.

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05-15-2008, 08:49 PM
  #54
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Honestly I highly doubt we trade McCabe if his value is anywhere close to how almost every poster on HF boards seem to think. Most think we will trade away McCabe for garbage or we have to trade something with McCabe to get rid of his supposevly ugly contract (Eventhough its seems to be right about market value now). I honestly fail to see how some people will offer a mid first for Kubina( who only showed up the last 20 games this year) or a and a good prospect/young player for Kaberle when McCabe played better then both of them. Sure those two make less but not significantly less. Is .75 million really that much of a deal breaker. But whatever i'd rather keep McCabe anyway.

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05-15-2008, 09:06 PM
  #55
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mccabe aint a pp qb...living in Toronto and having to watch em every once and a while this is a McCabe summary...
fairly good defensively
physical
prone to bonehead mistakes
good hipcheck
rocket from the point
okay skater
not overly fast
Kaberle (the pp qb) gets him the puck and he fires it.

Hes closer to Paul Mara...
he doesn't make sense at this point.
Personally I'd see if Hutchinson can hack the job...
We should probably keep Roszival in the meantime unless we're willing to spend the huge cash on Campbell.

I know lets get Sandis Ozolinsh.

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Old
05-15-2008, 09:12 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Four things appeal to me

1) He's a PP QB: I don't think I need to explain this one.
Im a Leafs fan, and if McCabe is your PP QB, then you are in trouble. He can barely keep the puck inside the offensive zone anymore. You do not want him handling the puck near the offensive blue line, he'll give up many shorthanded rushes.

He needs a PP QB to set him up for his slapshot, which he has also seemed to have lost.

However, he really picked up his defensive play last season and the leafs had an extremely better record with McCabe in the lineup, than without him.

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05-15-2008, 09:14 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by vesatoskala View Post
Im a Leafs fan, and if McCabe is your PP QB, then you are in trouble. He can barely keep the puck inside the offensive zone anymore. You do not want him handling the puck near the offensive blue line, he'll give up many shorthanded rushes.

He needs a PP QB to set him up for his slapshot, which he has also seemed to have lost.

However, he really picked up his defensive play last season and the leafs had an extremely better record with McCabe in the lineup, than without him.
Have you seen our defense? We need a guy from the point. Gomez is essentially our PP QB. Gomez can set him up for the shot.

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05-16-2008, 12:07 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
Gomez is essentially our PP QB. Gomez can set him up for the shot.
Gomez isn't terribly wonderful as a puck possession playmaker. He's better off the rush and dealing the puck off while moving and utilizing his speed.

A good powerplay QB is less about playmaking. It's more about making quick decisions with the puck but still having an above average shot (which the other team respects, thus giving him more lanes). Prior to his shoulder injury (where he could no longer shoot), Straka wasn't terrible since he could do the above and also use his speed to recover the puck if it had to be dumped in.

McCabe isn't worthy of being the goat in Toronto, but Bryan isn't worth the cap premium if it will still be a Jagr powerplay scheme/strategy next year.

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05-16-2008, 12:17 AM
  #59
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If Toronto is really looking to move him, then I very well might make an offer... Backman, and Prucha? Help offset the salary and give them something back. McCabe is not worth the salary... but McCabe at 5.75... or Backman, and Rosival at 5 million for a total of 7.5?

If Toronto is eager to hold onto him, then I'm damn sure not going to throw assets at the wall just trying to make a deal. The same Leafs fan who say is he worthless also expect to get a 1st round pick and Marc Staal for him(not saying all). I can't blame them though... try listening to my fellow Yankee fans on WFAN... now THOSE are some wacky trade offers...

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05-16-2008, 01:01 AM
  #60
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Trading for McCabe is as ludicrous as trading for Jovanovski. We don't pay to take other teams' albatrosses.

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05-16-2008, 01:14 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
Trading for McCabe is as ludicrous as trading for Jovanovski. We don't pay to take other teams' albatrosses.
but for backman and prucha might be a good idea.....gives a quality experienced offensive defenceman...

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05-16-2008, 01:26 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
backman and prucha for him....thats 3.7 in salary

and would allow us to let rosi walk and go after orpik or jason smith
Makes the most sense to me. Toronto is looking for a salary cap dump. He's not worked out for them and these two guys are not working out for us. Rangers have too many small forwards and Prucha's contract is probably the worst for a forward we have. The thing is we only get cap relief for one year--the Leafs for three. For our part including high draft picks or top 15 prospects should be absolutely out.

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05-16-2008, 02:59 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlundqvist30 View Post
1) He's a PP QB: I don't think I need to explain this one.
This is what I am a bit afraid off. Its not a exact term, but McCabe is a shooter on the PP, nothing else. He have also played all his time in Tor with Kaberle who is one of the best in the game too. Its not like we would be getting a Gonchar who can run a PP.

With the cap gooing up, and if McCabe maybe can kick it up a notch, his cap hit might not be so bad and we could certainly need a shooter from the blueline. And with Sanguetti comming up as more of a mobile QB thoose 2 might fit nicely together.

But, still, I am afraid of how McCabe would look on another PP then the Leafs...

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05-16-2008, 03:11 AM
  #64
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McCabe for three years for 5,7M$ caphit?
McCabe is not PP QB, he can shoot the puck, but thats it.
He is not in Zubov, Gonchar, Kaberle league.
Phew.
Are Rangers that desperate?
If i would have to choose someone from Toronto, it would be Kubina(Kaberle would cost a fortune).
Kubina for 5M$/2 years >>> McCAbe 5,7M$/3 years.
Still, way better options for good defensman are avalaible...

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05-16-2008, 03:27 AM
  #65
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Lets pass, I would rather struggle with Sangunetti & know he would get better than watch a declining Mcabe struggle knowing he isn't going to get any better.

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05-16-2008, 04:17 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Toronto is only going to trade him to dump cap. They aren't going to take crap back just to get rid of him unless you put something decent in the deal.

However, I highly doubt we're going to send a 1st rounder to Toronto for just McCabe. If we did, I'd want Steen coming back.



Isn't that why he makes more money?
Toronto doesn't particularly have a deep pool of prospects so they'd probably take any prospect or young player that has fallen out of favour for a high priced player that they want to shed off the roster and payroll.

I would say McCabe sucks but seeing him in Vancouver and then sort of keeping track of him after his stint on the Canucks and Hawks, the guy isn't all that bad of a defenseman. Some guys just hit a rut on some teams, i mean if he comes to the Rangers and turns into a solid powerplay qb like he was once, how bad would Ranger fans feel for giving up a few prospects that might or might not pan out and a player that's been in the dog house for a while?

Just posting as a general hockey fan. Relax with the troll crap - if it even crosses someone's mind.

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05-16-2008, 04:21 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
McCabe for three years for 5,7M$ caphit?
McCabe is not PP QB, he can shoot the puck, but thats it.
He is not in Zubov, Gonchar, Kaberle league.
Phew.
Are Rangers that desperate?
If i would have to choose someone from Toronto, it would be Kubina(Kaberle would cost a fortune).
Kubina for 5M$/2 years >>> McCAbe 5,7M$/3 years.
Still, way better options for good defensman are avalaible...
I think Toronto at this point would probably get rid of either one or even both. McCabe's track record is interesting though, every time he has an "off" year, he comes back with a pretty productive one that makes people sort of question their pure hatred for him, as in the team he is on and the fan base he is apart of in that regard.

I can't believe i am defending McCabe.

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05-16-2008, 05:08 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I sometimes wonder if SOME (as in a very small number) Toronto fans simply don't understand anything about geography outside the Toronto metro area.

MSG is actually a bit easier to reach from most parts of the LI than where the Isles play (because it is reachable via train etc). Even by car, there is not much difference. In fact, there wouldn't be much difference between where NJ plays and where the Isles play. So, this is absolutely incorrect.

I also doubt that McCabe would want to go to a potential losing team over a playoff team in a much more glitzy locale.

Finally, I doubt that McCabe, even with the NMC, gets to tell the Leafs which team "he prefers" to go to.[/b]
McCabe has already been in with the NYI before. He knows the area. It's not a geography question so much as it would be a preference.


[b]
Quote:
He makes six million next year, with a cap hit of 5.75 million. And, yeah he'll cost. But, the prices most Ranger fans are offering here is quite close to being fair. Certainly more fair than all this stuff built around the likes of Staal, etc.




This is the same player who Fletcher said there was "no interest in" around the league, and the same player that Garth Snow said he had never considered trading for? When exactly did McCabe's value (on ice and on the trade market) go through such a radical change?

Sorry, but Ranger fans here are being quite realistic in their perceptions of McCabe's market value.

I'll go beyond that. If McCabe were willing to waive his NMC to come to the Rangers, and if Sather wants him, a 2nd rounder and prospect/lessor player would be more than enough to get it done. In fact, if the first two conditions had been met before the deadline, McCabe would probably be a Ranger right now.
I wouldn't unload him then. McCabe is a first-line pairing defenseman. When he is on his game he is no doubt one of the leagues' best defenseman. Accepting anything less than a 1st rounder, high prospect or anything else isn't really worth it.

Like I said earlier he's only 3 seasons removed from being a Norris Trophy finalist. When McCabe can be paired long-enough with the right blue-liner beside him he is truly a very good defenseman.

Sometimes I think people around the league under-value most of the Leafs players. The Leafs have many corner-stones on their franchise. The issues with players not performing well have to due with injuries, sometimes coaching, and a lot of line-up shuffling.

On paper when the Leafs defensive corps plays at it's peak,it's a good roster. The problem is one or two guys struggle, or have injury problems, and it affects everyone else.

Right now, I'd still consider McCabe one of the league's top 20 blueliners. To some of you that might not seem real, given his salary, age, and on/off again performance. But McCabe had to overcome multiple issues last season, and when he returned from injury was much better defensively.

Good blueliners in this league are also tough to find, and have high value.

Honestly, and maybe this is just me, but I wouldn't flip McCabe to the Rangers unless I got Staal in return.

But it doesn't matter, I don't see this trade happening anyways. Avery is due a big salary raise, and the Rangers will have to sign him for long-term and then they will have to figure out what to due with Jagr.

I don't see this trade materializing anyways.

And FWIW, Fletcher isn't a Johnny-come lately GM. He likes to use the media to get into players head to tell them start performing. There was a dramatic difference last year when Fletcher came in and guys like Kubina started playing signifigantly better when Fletcher threatened to trade them. Some of this McCabe talk was part of that. But McCabe had been playing steadily at that time anyways.

Part of it, too, was trying to inflate his trade value somewhat.

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05-16-2008, 05:24 AM
  #69
ChrisKreider20
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Even if the leafs want Staal (which i'm not convinced of, since every leaf fan i've encountered in GTA (Mississauga) seems to want him out), it shouldn't matter because the Rangers shouldn't have interest in McCabe (he is just an upgrade over Mara, we need a Campbell type). There are better options that don't have that cap hit.
Personally I would go with Hutchinson, he was the AHL MVP, unless an offer screams out that would address that need. Campbell is simply too expensive.

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05-16-2008, 05:57 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakaway23 View Post
Sometimes I think people around the league under-value most of the Leafs players. The Leafs have many corner-stones on their franchise. The issues with players not performing well have to due with injuries, sometimes coaching, and a lot of line-up shuffling.

On paper when the Leafs defensive corps plays at it's peak,it's a good roster. The problem is one or two guys struggle, or have injury problems, and it affects everyone else.

Right now, I'd still consider McCabe one of the league's top 20 blueliners. To some of you that might not seem real, given his salary, age, and on/off again performance. But McCabe had to overcome multiple issues last season, and when he returned from injury was much better defensively.
You watch the Leafs more then anyone of us do -- but on this subject we are pretty much the experts... (after 10 year of experience)

Its "looks" like the players aren't trying, like they aren't well coached, like they don't got any chemistry -- but in fact if you take a bunch of older proven vets, who for years have learned to have success in this league; by playing one way, and asks them to cope well with other vets in the same mold thats what you get.

McCabe aint "bad", he is ok. But he is nothing special in any area other then bombing away on the PP. For the Leafs, like atleast 2 seasons ago, there might not have been 20 D's more valueble then him. But that defenitly don't mean that he will be able to perform in the same way for 29 other teams in this league. So much of Toronto's PP is built around McCabe in reality, and many of thoose guys have developed chemistry for years together on the PP. Thats why they are able to get McCabe open so much, and in so good situations. Take out Rozsival on NYR's PP and put McCabe there instead -- its defenitly doubtful he would get as many open shooting lanes. Thats basically half his production right there...

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05-16-2008, 06:09 AM
  #71
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i for one, would truly miss watching the ticking timebomb that is mccabe screw up during the most crucial moment of the game

so... i dont think toronto should trade him

if they did it would have to be something like mccabe + 1st for 8th round draft pick

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05-16-2008, 07:11 AM
  #72
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I don't know about McCabe. By all accounts, most Leafs fans seem to despise him and in recent years, he's definitely been a defensive liability.

He has a good shot and would help our scoring from the blue line, but I think with him that the negatives out-weigh the positives. If we could get him for Backman, I'd do it, but anything else I'm just not sure.

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05-16-2008, 07:50 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakaway23 View Post
McCabe has already been in with the NYI before. He knows the area. It's not a geography question so much as it would be a preference.


[b]

I wouldn't unload him then. McCabe is a first-line pairing defenseman. When he is on his game he is no doubt one of the leagues' best defenseman. Accepting anything less than a 1st rounder, high prospect or anything else isn't really worth it.

Like I said earlier he's only 3 seasons removed from being a Norris Trophy finalist. When McCabe can be paired long-enough with the right blue-liner beside him he is truly a very good defenseman.

Sometimes I think people around the league under-value most of the Leafs players. The Leafs have many corner-stones on their franchise. The issues with players not performing well have to due with injuries, sometimes coaching, and a lot of line-up shuffling.

On paper when the Leafs defensive corps plays at it's peak,it's a good roster. The problem is one or two guys struggle, or have injury problems, and it affects everyone else.

Right now, I'd still consider McCabe one of the league's top 20 blueliners. To some of you that might not seem real, given his salary, age, and on/off again performance. But McCabe had to overcome multiple issues last season, and when he returned from injury was much better defensively.

Good blueliners in this league are also tough to find, and have high value.

Honestly, and maybe this is just me, but I wouldn't flip McCabe to the Rangers unless I got Staal in return.

But it doesn't matter, I don't see this trade happening anyways. Avery is due a big salary raise, and the Rangers will have to sign him for long-term and then they will have to figure out what to due with Jagr.

I don't see this trade materializing anyways.

And FWIW, Fletcher isn't a Johnny-come lately GM. He likes to use the media to get into players head to tell them start performing. There was a dramatic difference last year when Fletcher came in and guys like Kubina started playing signifigantly better when Fletcher threatened to trade them. Some of this McCabe talk was part of that. But McCabe had been playing steadily at that time anyways.

Part of it, too, was trying to inflate his trade value somewhat.


only in NHL 08 would bryan mccabe get you marc staal, you have to be crazy if you think that a guy that has been hated by his own fans for years and even has a website dedicated to how bad he is would get you one of the league's most promising d-men.

dont get me wrong i dont believe backman and prucha would get him, the leafs would want more. but as i said i dont want him in a rangers jersey. malik was hated for his bonehead plays and now backman is so although mccabe is a step up from them he would still be the next scapegoat.

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05-16-2008, 08:39 AM
  #74
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to the poster who said he'd only flip mccabe for staal....thanks, you ruined my monitor. i spit a full mouth of coffee after reading that. you owe my company $200, thanks.

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05-16-2008, 10:09 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Leafs fan here....

We don't want Backman the reason we are trading McCabe is to get rid of our garbage we dont want any back

In all reality the deal would most likely be....

1st and Prucha

now i know none of you would make that deal but I think thats what he would go for
That's the biggest joke of a post I've ever seen.

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