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Summer 2008: the time has come for Bob Gainey to hit a Homerun

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Old
05-18-2008, 02:25 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
Yet we trade Huet despite him having a better season than the one before?

Again, which is it, bub?

And btw, your claim of Markov being hurt pretty badly raises another question... why is he playing in some meaningless tourny right now?

for who ?

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05-18-2008, 02:32 PM
  #52
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Difference is, that specific year, Rivet was playing like ****, trading him meant not having to play him on a regular basis wich was an upgrade in itself...

Souray, totally different scenario, having his best year offensively + his shot alone won us a few games that year...
Gainey had to brake up two "cliques".

The Dagenais-Ribeiro-Theodore

The Rivet-Souray-Koivu.

That's what he has done to bring back real team spirit.

To achieve that, he had to make some sacrifices... getting Aebisher and Niinimaa, is one. But, at least, he got Gorges + Pacioretty.

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05-18-2008, 02:35 PM
  #53
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for who ?
He's playing for Russia in the World Championships.

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05-18-2008, 02:59 PM
  #54
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Au contraire, mon frere!

I disagree completely with this statement that the players and the coach have done their jobs.

They folded like cheap suitcases in the playoffs when it mattered and refused to play the self sacrificing hockey that wins playoffs!

The coach has improved a lot but he was so badly out coached in some games and refuses to acknowledge his mistakes and let's his personal squabbles dictate his choices instead of making the decision that is best for the team (one case in point is Michael Ryder for the final games).

It means nothing to win the President's Trophy if you can't win the Cup. Just ask the Detroit Red Wings and Stevie Y. This means jack!

Until CH can go deep into the playoffs and finally brings home the Cup, this entire team is a disappointment and have not accomplished their goal.
There's a reason why they say POs have nothing to do with the Reg Season.
The players and coaches didnt fold like cheap suitcases as you put it.

The coach and players have improved greatly, mistakes will always happen. Even Gretzky/Lemieux did mistakes during their glory years this doesn't mean they didn't play well.
Carbo got outcoached by who exactly??..Stevens??..is that why we finished with more shots on Biron, and more importantly more SCORING CHANCES?..Is it also Carbo's fault we hit about 2000000 posts during that serie?
Michael Ryder?..are you seriously bitter about that??...plz man..tell me you're joking. He was horrible during all season, and during the few games he played on in the POs. And like i said, its not like we were outplayed by the Flyers, we played much better than them, it just seems every bounces went their way during that serie.
If Price played the same way he did vs the Bruins, we're the ones playing the Penguins.

By the way, we didn't win the President's trophy, Detroit did.

Your last paragraph really shows sums up how dumb your post is.
A team that is expected to finish close to last in the league but ends up 1st in East and is eliminated in 2nd round(even after dominating the other team) is a real disappointment thats true.

Get lost.

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05-18-2008, 03:59 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
Yet we trade Huet despite him having a better season than the one before?

Again, which is it, bub?

And btw, your claim of Markov being hurt pretty badly raises another question... why is he playing in some meaningless tourny right now?
Every situation is different... we had the replacement for Huet waiting.... and as has been proven many times Huet is not a big game pressure goalie....

Markov was hurt; that was documented.... he didn't want to play for Russia initially but speculation is they told him either to play for them or not to bother asking in 2010.

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05-18-2008, 04:07 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Gainey had to brake up two "cliques".

The Dagenais-Ribeiro-Theodore

The Rivet-Souray-Koivu.

That's what he has done to bring back real team spirit.

To achieve that, he had to make some sacrifices... getting Aebisher and Niinimaa, is one. But, at least, he got Gorges + Pacioretty.
Gainey wasn't trying to break up a clique between those 3. Gainey had 3 UFA defenseman Markov/Souray/Rivet. He knew he couldn't keep all 3 so he made a choice and traded Rivet.

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05-18-2008, 06:12 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
He's playing for Russia in the World Championships.
for who as in : it's meaningless for who, NOT for who he plays...

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05-18-2008, 06:15 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's a reason why they say POs have nothing to do with the Reg Season.
The players and coaches didnt fold like cheap suitcases as you put it.

The coach and players have improved greatly, mistakes will always happen. Even Gretzky/Lemieux did mistakes during their glory years this doesn't mean they didn't play well.
Carbo got outcoached by who exactly??..Stevens??..is that why we finished with more shots on Biron, and more importantly more SCORING CHANCES?..Is it also Carbo's fault we hit about 2000000 posts during that serie?
Michael Ryder?..are you seriously bitter about that??...plz man..tell me you're joking. He was horrible during all season, and during the few games he played on in the POs. And like i said, its not like we were outplayed by the Flyers, we played much better than them, it just seems every bounces went their way during that serie.
If Price played the same way he did vs the Bruins, we're the ones playing the Penguins.

By the way, we didn't win the President's trophy, Detroit did.

Your last paragraph really shows sums up how dumb your post is.
A team that is expected to finish close to last in the league but ends up 1st in East and is eliminated in 2nd round(even after dominating the other team) is a real disappointment thats true.

Get lost.
Who are you again?

I don't know who you are son, but I think that you really need some help...

Yes, Carbo was out coached by both of the coaches that he faced.

Yes, CH was out played and out hustled in most of the games after game 1 with the Bruins.

Yes, CH took many shots but they were all more or less harmless perimeter shots and most of their scoring chances were also harmless. THIS is the point!

So, once you actually start to understand a little about the game of hockey, then maybe we can start having a meaningful conversation.

But for now, I don't have time for your drivel.

I don't do this often and I believe that you're the second one in all my time here but congratulations and WELCOME TO MY IGNORE LIST.

BTW, I said.

"It means nothing to win the President's Trophy if you can't win the Cup. Just ask the Detroit Red Wings and Stevie Y. This means jack!"

How you get that to mean that CH won the President's Trophy, I don't know. Perhaps you should seek some remedial English help while you're at it...

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05-18-2008, 07:03 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Gainey wasn't trying to break up a clique between those 3. Gainey had 3 UFA defenseman Markov/Souray/Rivet. He knew he couldn't keep all 3 so he made a choice and traded Rivet.
Gainey was more than happy to take Rivet and Souray away from the club.

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05-18-2008, 08:30 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Gainey was more than happy to take Rivet and Souray away from the club.
I'll give you Rivet, because there was some trouble in the locker room. But he offered Souray the same contract he offered Hamrlik, but Souray turned it down. If he wasn't happy with Souray, why would he offer him a new long term contract?

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05-18-2008, 09:45 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
for who as in : it's meaningless for who, NOT for who he plays...
Considering he played like absoulte **** on a stick in the playoffs, it's rather insulting to see him out there playing for a team that doesn't even put food on the table for him. It's all about priorities.

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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I'll give you Rivet, because there was some trouble in the locker room. But he offered Souray the same contract he offered Hamrlik, but Souray turned it down. If he wasn't happy with Souray, why would he offer him a new long term contract?
Or why wouldn't he of offered it 4 months earlier...? Hmmmm..


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05-18-2008, 10:01 PM
  #62
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Considering he played like absoulte **** on a stick in the playoffs, it's rather insulting to see him out there playing for a team that doesn't even put food on the table for him. It's all about priorities.
You know he'll still be a Habs and play for the team that pay him next season right...

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05-18-2008, 11:00 PM
  #63
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Gainey didn't desperately want to retain Souray (who never gave out strong signals that he wanted to stay) but he made a generous offer anyway. What he did want was a playoff berth, and for that he thought he needed Souray a while longer. It didn't work out and the Habs missed the playoffs via a dumb penalty given as a present to the Leafs and a collapse by an unprepared Huet. So we all move on.

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05-18-2008, 11:03 PM
  #64
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Or why wouldn't he of offered it 4 months earlier...? Hmmmm..
What's your point? My point was that if he didn't have any interest in bringing Souray back, he wouldn't have offered him a contract after July 1st.

He didn't offer Markov a contract 4 months previous. Does that mean that Gainey really didn't want Markov either?

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Gainey didn't desperately want to retain Souray (who never gave out strong signals that he wanted to stay) but he made a generous offer anyway. What he did want was a playoff berth, and for that he thought he needed Souray a while longer. It didn't work out and the Habs missed the playoffs via a dumb penalty given as a present to the Leafs and a collapse by an unprepared Huet. So we all move on.
I disagree, Souray in every interview leading up to July 1st said nothing but good things about Montreal and how Hab management had stayed with him during the hard times.

I don't know what was said behind closed doors. But through the media Souray gave every indication he wanted to come back. Hell, he even supported Gainey for making Markov a priority.

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05-18-2008, 11:17 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Gainey wasn't trying to break up a clique between those 3. Gainey had 3 UFA defenseman Markov/Souray/Rivet. He knew he couldn't keep all 3 so he made a choice and traded Rivet.
Agreed.I personally believe the Koivu clique and the supposed damages they did in the locker room is a bullcrap rumor/perception and has always been.Your post greatly contradicts this rumor and explains the real reasons why Souray and Rivet left.

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05-18-2008, 11:33 PM
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What's your point? My point was that if he didn't have any interest in bringing Souray back, he wouldn't have offered him a contract after July 1st.

He didn't offer Markov a contract 4 months previous. Does that mean that Gainey really didn't want Markov either?
But the thing is, if he had legitimate interest he would of addressed it a month prior to July 1st.. not once the guy was already a UFA.

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05-18-2008, 11:37 PM
  #67
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But the thing is, if he had legitimate interest he would of addressed it a month prior to July 1st.. not once the guy was already a UFA.
He knew we needed one defenceman.... He signed a defenceman on July 1 after Souray turned down the team's offer.... Whats the problem??

Its easy to criticize GMs in hindsight... but I'd like you to post what you would do with the team at every key moment;

Ie tell us right now.... If you are Gainey: who are you trying to sign in free agency on July 1st and what is your offer?? We'll see next year whether it would have been a good move or not.

Not every move is gonna work... but right now Gainey has built a young club that finished 1st in the East and many of us see them on the verge of something special, but you and a couple other posters here fail to give them any credit and don't see how much better we are today than we were when Gainey took the job; and that is wrong.

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05-19-2008, 12:23 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
He knew we needed one defenceman.... He signed a defenceman on July 1 after Souray turned down the team's offer.... Whats the problem??

Its easy to criticize GMs in hindsight... but I'd like you to post what you would do with the team at every key moment;

Ie tell us right now.... If you are Gainey: who are you trying to sign in free agency on July 1st and what is your offer?? We'll see next year whether it would have been a good move or not.

Not every move is gonna work... but right now Gainey has built a young club that finished 1st in the East and many of us see them on the verge of something special, but you and a couple other posters here fail to give them any credit and don't see how much better we are today than we were when Gainey took the job; and that is wrong.
I remain optomistic that CH can win the Cup in the next three years.

However, I think that the point is that CH has not really improved at all in the playoffs to this point.

We were getting by Boston and then imploding in the second round even way back in 2002 (was it 2002?).

So nothing has really changed where things matter...and that's in the playoffs.

Everybody must be working towards the Cup.

Unfortunately, this is not yet evident on this team.

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05-19-2008, 12:38 AM
  #69
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I remain optomistic that CH can win the Cup in the next three years.

However, I think that the point is that CH has not really improved at all in the playoffs to this point.

We were getting by Boston and then imploding in the second round even way back in 2002 (was it 2002?).

So nothing has really changed where things matter...and that's in the playoffs.

Everybody must be working towards the Cup.

Unfortunately, this is not yet evident on this team.

If you can't see the difference between a team full of guys like Joe Juneau, Niklas Sundstrom, Andreas Dackell and others and the team we have today, then I truly feel sorry for you... For an observer; your powers of observation are quite weak.

There is a big difference between this team and the others in the playoffs; and that is the attitudes of everyone involved; the players, the coaches; management etc. In 2002 we knew we didn't have a true contender, we were happy to squeak in to 7th-8th, maybe pull a first round upset, but noone thought truly about going after the cup. Now we can start to think about that cup. The city feels it, the fans feel it, the players feel it; everyone can see that we are back in the mix as a contender.

Most teams have to go through a playoff disappointment or two before they finally breakthrough and win the cup. Great teams have to lose before they learn how to win in the NHL, its always been that way. This was a year for us to gain experience and learn how to win for next year.

Yes the team needs some tweaks... some adjustments will be made, but the core is in place for a good long run as a top contender right now... you can see it, the talent is there. We no longer have the same scrubs filling spots we used to; and there is more talent knocking at the door for their shot.

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05-19-2008, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
If you can't see the difference between a team full of guys like Joe Juneau, Niklas Sundstrom, Andreas Dackell and others and the team we have today, then I truly feel sorry for you... For an observer; your powers of observation are quite weak.

There is a big difference between this team and the others in the playoffs; and that is the attitudes of everyone involved; the players, the coaches; management etc. In 2002 we knew we didn't have a true contender, we were happy to squeak in to 7th-8th, maybe pull a first round upset, but noone thought truly about going after the cup. Now we can start to think about that cup. The city feels it, the fans feel it, the players feel it; everyone can see that we are back in the mix as a contender.

Most teams have to go through a playoff disappointment or two before they finally breakthrough and win the cup. Great teams have to lose before they learn how to win in the NHL, its always been that way. This was a year for us to gain experience and learn how to win for next year.

Yes the team needs some tweaks... some adjustments will be made, but the core is in place for a good long run as a top contender right now... you can see it, the talent is there. We no longer have the same scrubs filling spots we used to; and there is more talent knocking at the door for their shot.
The Habs are a contender?

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05-19-2008, 12:48 AM
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He knew we needed one defenceman.... He signed a defenceman on July 1 after Souray turned down the team's offer.... Whats the problem??

Its easy to criticize GMs in hindsight... but I'd like you to post what you would do with the team at every key moment;

Ie tell us right now.... If you are Gainey: who are you trying to sign in free agency on July 1st and what is your offer?? We'll see next year whether it would have been a good move or not.

Not every move is gonna work... but right now Gainey has built a young club that finished 1st in the East and many of us see them on the verge of something special, but you and a couple other posters here fail to give them any credit and don't see how much better we are today than we were when Gainey took the job; and that is wrong.
Ryder - Gone
Smolinski - Gone
Brisebois - Gone
Streit - Offer 2 year deal at max of 2 million... if he says no then Gone.

UFA
1. Make a serious play for either Sundin or Selanne

2. Address 4th line grit: 1. Craig Weller (I think he might be too tough for our coaches liking... ie: he runs the risk of actually winning a fight). 2. Roy/Hordichuk

3. Make a trade. Bait: Chipchura, Halak, high draft picks in 2008 and/or 2009
Target: Forward with size who will actually stand in front of the net and screen the ****ing goalie... Jokinen, Boyes, Horton, Cole.

Even Kovalev said it... this past season was going to be his best shot to win the Cup again. He knows he's not getting any younger and nor is Koivu. We can not wait 3-4 years to make that serious push... we need to make it this summer.

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05-19-2008, 12:59 AM
  #72
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But the thing is, if he had legitimate interest he would of addressed it a month prior to July 1st.. not once the guy was already a UFA.
I would agree when it comes to other GM's. But Gainey has showed that normally, I know there are exceptions. But normally he doesn't rush into making decisions.

I just think in this situation Markov was the #1 priority, and even he wasn't signed until I believe it was a week or 2 before the deadline. *Feel free to correct me on this*

Once that was taken care of Gainey went to talk to Souray. The fact that he did offer him a contract does show that he did have legitimate interest in signing him.

Unless you have information that I don't that Gainey offered the contract to Souray. Just to save face with the fans, knowing full well that Souray would reject the offer.

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05-19-2008, 02:06 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BigTimer View Post
Ryder - Gone
Smolinski - Gone
Brisebois - Gone
Streit - Offer 2 year deal at max of 2 million... if he says no then Gone.

UFA
1. Make a serious play for either Sundin or Selanne

2. Address 4th line grit: 1. Craig Weller (I think he might be too tough for our coaches liking... ie: he runs the risk of actually winning a fight). 2. Roy/Hordichuk

3. Make a trade. Bait: Chipchura, Halak, high draft picks in 2008 and/or 2009
Target: Forward with size who will actually stand in front of the net and screen the ****ing goalie... Jokinen, Boyes, Horton, Cole.

Even Kovalev said it... this past season was going to be his best shot to win the Cup again. He knows he's not getting any younger and nor is Koivu. We can not wait 3-4 years to make that serious push... we need to make it this summer.
just so we're clear, in wich of the 3 you think you're going to succeed ?

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05-19-2008, 02:15 AM
  #74
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I don't think anybody would consider that Bob did a bad job, in fact he did a terrifick one given what the Habs became this year in particular. It's just that maybe he needs to do that blockbuster move to finaly turn us into serious contenders.

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05-19-2008, 05:32 AM
  #75
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just so we're clear, in wich of the 3 you think you're going to succeed ?
We need two out of three. No excuses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u1zaZe_qP4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnn9MzJ_8xk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=814uJPkChBE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ym7Ii7lWY4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJB6g0xrNTc

It's a small addition but I'm sick and tired of everyone looking to Komisarek to handle that type of stuff. Who knows, you get a big kid like Weller to take that job and maybe Komisarek doesn't wear down at the end of the season like he did.


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