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Old
05-11-2008, 05:26 PM
  #51
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lol wow Olli absolutely blows lately and also was ejected on a suspect call today in the game where the refs were idiotic, as an understatement. Esche started over Anderson and the US lost 3-2 to Finland. Only positive is Peltonen played well defensively for Finland.
Like worse than he was this season?

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05-11-2008, 08:19 PM
  #52
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I'd definitely say so. He's turned into an absolutely one dimensional player over the course of the season and into the tournament. A shooter who doesn't have great hockey sense, doesn't really hit much anymore, and doesn't play defensively. He doesn't even skate hard most of the time and turns the puck over constantly. His only source of production is a big shot from the point on the powerplay. He rarely contributes 5 on 5 anymore (at the end of our season), so we'd be more benefitted in having a defensman with a big shot and some decent forward, rather than putting Jokinen back there.

I think Olli's time in south florida has drawn nearer to a close now than it ever has. It'd be great to have a first round pick in this draft, and Olli's the most obvious source of one, and some other assets as well, so if we could pick up some quality for him, I'd be all ears.

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05-11-2008, 08:49 PM
  #53
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I'd definitely say so. He's turned into an absolutely one dimensional player over the course of the season and into the tournament. A shooter who doesn't have great hockey sense, doesn't really hit much anymore, and doesn't play defensively. He doesn't even skate hard most of the time and turns the puck over constantly. His only source of production is a big shot from the point on the powerplay. He rarely contributes 5 on 5 anymore (at the end of our season), so we'd be more benefitted in having a defensman with a big shot and some decent forward, rather than putting Jokinen back there.

I think Olli's time in south florida has drawn nearer to a close now than it ever has. It'd be great to have a first round pick in this draft, and Olli's the most obvious source of one, and some other assets as well, so if we could pick up some quality for him, I'd be all ears.
Oh well. Have fun in Calgary, Olli.

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05-11-2008, 09:39 PM
  #54
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Oh well. Have fun in Calgary, Olli.
I'm a little nervous about the return that Calgary would give us. I don't really care for their prospects at all really. I'd like Tanguay or Phaneuf or players like that, I could see Martin going after Lombardi, but the flames don't have any one player in particular that would be a good straight up player to trade for the "idea of Jokinen." This idea of Jokinen is a big bodied first line center who is tough and battles through and is capable of leading his team, but unfortunately, that Olli has seemingly disappeard, so his trade value will be based more on what he can offer if he gets back on track vs. the risk involved rather than what he's done in the past.

I'm sure we'd ask about Leland Irving, Dustin Boyd, and others.

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05-11-2008, 09:59 PM
  #55
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I'm a little nervous about the return that Calgary would give us. I don't really care for their prospects at all really. I'd like Tanguay or Phaneuf or players like that, I could see Martin going after Lombardi, but the flames don't have any one player in particular that would be a good straight up player to trade for the "idea of Jokinen." This idea of Jokinen is a big bodied first line center who is tough and battles through and is capable of leading his team, but unfortunately, that Olli has seemingly disappeard, so his trade value will be based more on what he can offer if he gets back on track vs. the risk involved rather than what he's done in the past.

I'm sure we'd ask about Leland Irving, Dustin Boyd, and others.
I could see a deal centered around Jokinen for Tanguay and Lombardi. I don't know if the Flames would give up Boyd, they're already thin on prospects as it is. Irving, maybe, as I think his value has dropped off somewhat. But I think Martin will mainly want players that can help us now. I don't know how safe his job is if the Panthers don't make the playoffs again next year.

"The idea of Jokinen" might not even exist to some teams anymore. That might be a reality we have to deal with. Though, Tanguay is pretty close to Olli as an overall player, IMO. His production dropped this year because he played on a line with Conroy and Nolan, not exactly offensive powerhouses. Quite a difference from Iginla and Langkow. And it wasn't like he was playing badly, either. When he's with first line players, he's about an 80+ point player.

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05-14-2008, 10:45 PM
  #56
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Bouw with 0 points in 7 games. He and Steve Staois tied with 0 points for lowest scoring player on team Canada. Normally I wouldn't say anything about this, but the fact that team Canada had blown out so many other teams makes me question Bouw's performance. He's only a +1 as well, despite Canada blowing out other teams. 6 million+ for him is stupid IMO. Another player I'd like to add to the list who IMO is on Bouwmeester's level or better is Brent Burns. He's a stud. With a few guys in the league progressing so quickly, I'd think it'd have to drive Bouw's value down. Guys like Phaneuf, Burns, Weber, etc....can all be touted as potential future norris candidates. Until Bouw proves he can dominated a season for the entire year without being inconsistent at times, I'd be hesitant to give out the money, and I'd look to deal him for a big package.

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05-14-2008, 11:40 PM
  #57
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Bouw has been playing a real defensive role this time around. Never seen him see get this little ice time at WC either.

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05-15-2008, 12:14 AM
  #58
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Bouw with 0 points in 7 games. He and Steve Staois tied with 0 points for lowest scoring player on team Canada. Normally I wouldn't say anything about this, but the fact that team Canada had blown out so many other teams makes me question Bouw's performance. He's only a +1 as well, despite Canada blowing out other teams. 6 million+ for him is stupid IMO. Another player I'd like to add to the list who IMO is on Bouwmeester's level or better is Brent Burns. He's a stud. With a few guys in the league progressing so quickly, I'd think it'd have to drive Bouw's value down. Guys like Phaneuf, Burns, Weber, etc....can all be touted as potential future norris candidates. Until Bouw proves he can dominated a season for the entire year without being inconsistent at times, I'd be hesitant to give out the money, and I'd look to deal him for a big package.
Bouw is better than Burns and Weber. One World Championships performance doesn't make a career.

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05-15-2008, 10:20 AM
  #59
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Bouw is better than Burns and Weber. One World Championships performance doesn't make a career.
I know but Burns has been rising quickly and I've always been very impressed with him. I'd say he's very close to Bouw's level and is a flashier player, not that that counts for anything.

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05-15-2008, 12:45 PM
  #60
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btw.. a week or so ago Finnish media interviewed Denis Potvin during a break. He was asked who he thinks are the best young dman around NHL right now he said right away Brent Burns and Dion Phaneuf are his favorites and continued to prase them and when the interview seemed almost over he added also Jay Bouwmeester is very good and I get to see him play alot (as assumed about 5-10 finns know Potvin is Panthers color)

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05-15-2008, 08:53 PM
  #61
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btw.. a week or so ago Finnish media interviewed Denis Potvin during a break. He was asked who he thinks are the best young dman around NHL right now he said right away Brent Burns and Dion Phaneuf are his favorites and continued to prase them and when the interview seemed almost over he added also Jay Bouwmeester is very good and I get to see him play alot (as assumed about 5-10 finns know Potvin is Panthers color)
Potvin speaks the truth.

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05-15-2008, 09:13 PM
  #62
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I know but Burns has been rising quickly and I've always been very impressed with him. I'd say he's very close to Bouw's level and is a flashier player, not that that counts for anything.
Burns is close to Bouw, but he can't do all of the things Bouw can. He's a little more limited in his abilities. That's not to say that he can't be better someday, but as of right now he's not.

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05-15-2008, 09:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
btw.. a week or so ago Finnish media interviewed Denis Potvin during a break. He was asked who he thinks are the best young dman around NHL right now he said right away Brent Burns and Dion Phaneuf are his favorites and continued to prase them and when the interview seemed almost over he added also Jay Bouwmeester is very good and I get to see him play alot (as assumed about 5-10 finns know Potvin is Panthers color)
I think even Potvin can be fickle sometimes though. Burns had a great season, and Bouw had somewhat of a subpar one. That's why I think according to some, there's more love for Burns than Bouw right now. But if I had to choose which player I could take for my team, I'd still choose Bouw.

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05-16-2008, 03:57 AM
  #64
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I have never seen Burns play before this tournament, but he has really impressed me. The guy is awesome. Bouw is my favorite Panther, but in the beginning of the first game he made some boneheaded decisions in the offensive zone and hasn't really seen that side of the rink since. Bouw puzzles me these days - how can it be that a guy who is as fast as he, seems to always be in a hurry with his passes? Great players always have a fraction of a second more time than others, but Bouw is really in a rush always. And his decision making requires a lot of improvement. It's frustrating.

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05-16-2008, 12:06 PM
  #65
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I have never seen Burns play before this tournament, but he has really impressed me. The guy is awesome. Bouw is my favorite Panther, but in the beginning of the first game he made some boneheaded decisions in the offensive zone and hasn't really seen that side of the rink since. Bouw puzzles me these days - how can it be that a guy who is as fast as he, seems to always be in a hurry with his passes? Great players always have a fraction of a second more time than others, but Bouw is really in a rush always. And his decision making requires a lot of improvement. It's frustrating.
lol Because Bouw doesn't have tremendous hockey sense to say the least. Have you ever heard him talk haha?

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05-16-2008, 12:11 PM
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Burns is close to Bouw, but he can't do all of the things Bouw can. He's a little more limited in his abilities. That's not to say that he can't be better someday, but as of right now he's not.
Burns is not limited in any way. He's a fantastic skater, has tremendous offensive ability, and is very very solid defensively. Bouw is better defensively by a little bit, and Burns is far superior offensively. I know if you look at stats, they're close, but thing is, with having watched Burns a lot this year, he's a presence in the offensive zone. Bouwmeester is not that. Yes Bouw puts up points, but Burns is the focal point of the offense on powerplays on the back end. He has a booming slap shot and is also very aggressive in his mindset. He's a good puck mover as well, and he bounced between forward and defense after he was drafted before Minnesota finally turned him into a defensman. Bouw in the powerplay is sometimes hesitant and there are lots of times where he's made rushed dumb plays (icing the puck at least twice in the final seconds where the other team has come back to win or tie it (NYR and another team I forget). Burns's biggest downfall at the moment is the dumb penalties he takes at times. He makes huge hits, something Bouw doesn't do. Bouw is the less flashier reliable guy back there that you don't always notice, but Burns is a focal point of the Wild, and has the ability to turn a game around with a big hit or booming slap shot, something Bouw doesn't posess. Phaneuf has this ability as well, which is why people easily say Phaneuf is superior. Bouw is excellent though, but I think it's time that other good dmen around the league got their due.

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05-16-2008, 12:21 PM
  #67
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Where can we watch the tournament?

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05-16-2008, 12:48 PM
  #68
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Where can we watch the tournament?
tsn.ca streams international hockey for free. Not sure if this is blocked in the States.

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05-16-2008, 08:38 PM
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tsn.ca streams international hockey for free. Not sure if this is blocked in the States.
www.wcsn.com has broadcast rights in USA, $4.95 per month, I have watched couple of games.

JOL

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05-16-2008, 11:25 PM
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Burns is not limited in any way. He's a fantastic skater, has tremendous offensive ability, and is very very solid defensively. Bouw is better defensively by a little bit, and Burns is far superior offensively. I know if you look at stats, they're close, but thing is, with having watched Burns a lot this year, he's a presence in the offensive zone. Bouwmeester is not that. Yes Bouw puts up points, but Burns is the focal point of the offense on powerplays on the back end. He has a booming slap shot and is also very aggressive in his mindset. He's a good puck mover as well, and he bounced between forward and defense after he was drafted before Minnesota finally turned him into a defensman. Bouw in the powerplay is sometimes hesitant and there are lots of times where he's made rushed dumb plays (icing the puck at least twice in the final seconds where the other team has come back to win or tie it (NYR and another team I forget). Burns's biggest downfall at the moment is the dumb penalties he takes at times. He makes huge hits, something Bouw doesn't do. Bouw is the less flashier reliable guy back there that you don't always notice, but Burns is a focal point of the Wild, and has the ability to turn a game around with a big hit or booming slap shot, something Bouw doesn't posess. Phaneuf has this ability as well, which is why people easily say Phaneuf is superior. Bouw is excellent though, but I think it's time that other good dmen around the league got their due.
Yeah, Burns is flashier, but like you said yourself, that doesn't mean he's better. Bouw is still better, and he just had a subpar season, while Burns has been playing excellent this year. That's why he's getting all this hype right now. Every player has poor seasons or poor stretches. Bouw is going through one now. He's still the better defenseman and I would take him 100/100 times over Burns.

What I did say was that Burns is more limited than Bouwmeester. He can't rush the puck out of trouble like Bouw can and he's not as good defensively. Bouw just has an excellent stick and elite hockey sense. The fact that Burns is not as good defensively as Bouw is no knock against him. He has some attributes that stand out over Bouw, of course. Just like Mike Green has attributes that stand out over Bouw, but it doesn't mean he's a better defenseman. Green's defensive coverage still needs a lot of work. Of course, other young defensemen around the league should get their due, but there's a difference between getting their due and saying they're better than Bouw.

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05-17-2008, 12:40 AM
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Yeah, Burns is flashier, but like you said yourself, that doesn't mean he's better. Bouw is still better, and he just had a subpar season, while Burns has been playing excellent this year. That's why he's getting all this hype right now. Every player has poor seasons or poor stretches. Bouw is going through one now. He's still the better defenseman and I would take him 100/100 times over Burns.

What I did say was that Burns is more limited than Bouwmeester. He can't rush the puck out of trouble like Bouw can and he's not as good defensively. Bouw just has an excellent stick and elite hockey sense. The fact that Burns is not as good defensively as Bouw is no knock against him. He has some attributes that stand out over Bouw, of course. Just like Mike Green has attributes that stand out over Bouw, but it doesn't mean he's a better defenseman. Green's defensive coverage still needs a lot of work. Of course, other young defensemen around the league should get their due, but there's a difference between getting their due and saying they're better than Bouw.
Green in his own end is an adventure, to say the least, but his offense is sick. Burns is nothing like that. Burns is very solid in his own end and brings a dimension that helps raise his team to another level at times it seems, as he has with Canada. I've yet to see Bouw step up and dominate and take over games even though he should be able to considering his skillset. As someone said on the main board in a thread, he seems like he's always rushed and in a hurry with decisions, which causes him to make boneheaded plays here and there. I've seen this and I don't understand why. He is great for us though but I don't think he's come anywhere near to fulfilling the (unjust to a great extent) hype before he was drafted.

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05-17-2008, 01:07 PM
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Green in his own end is an adventure, to say the least, but his offense is sick. Burns is nothing like that. Burns is very solid in his own end and brings a dimension that helps raise his team to another level at times it seems, as he has with Canada. I've yet to see Bouw step up and dominate and take over games even though he should be able to considering his skillset. As someone said on the main board in a thread, he seems like he's always rushed and in a hurry with decisions, which causes him to make boneheaded plays here and there. I've seen this and I don't understand why. He is great for us though but I don't think he's come anywhere near to fulfilling the (unjust to a great extent) hype before he was drafted.
Ah jeez man, Bouw has just had a rough year. I still think he had lingering effects from his hip surgery last summer, and he got off to a poor start, and never really got rolling the way he wanted to. He's just on a schneid. Have you forgotten how awesome he was in 06-07 already? I wouldn't think twice about taking that Bouw over Burns, anyday of the week. Bouw will bounce back. Before the lockout, everyone was saying how Jagr was never going to be a dominant player again, and he bounced back with two great seasons, and even though he only had 71 points this regular season, he led the playoffs in scoring with 15 points after two rounds.

Regarding Bouw's hype, I think some people expected too much of him simply because he is a terrific skater. That doesn't always translate into offense. Look at Chad Kilger, Jason Chimaera, they can skate like the wind but they are 3rd-4th liners. On the defensive end, he has lived up to the hype.

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05-18-2008, 05:21 PM
  #73
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So Bouwmeester finished the World Champs as one of only two rostered skaters to go pointless in all 9 games (Steve Staios the other). Unfortunately, Bouwmeester was the only player on the entire roster that was a minus in plus minus for the entire tournament.

Maybe this will keep him from asking for 7+ million per year or some outrageous price. I wouldn't go a cent about 5 mil, especially until he proves that he can get back to that level he was at a year ago.

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05-18-2008, 08:03 PM
  #74
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So Bouwmeester finished the World Champs as one of only two rostered skaters to go pointless in all 9 games (Steve Staios the other). Unfortunately, Bouwmeester was the only player on the entire roster that was a minus in plus minus for the entire tournament.

Maybe this will keep him from asking for 7+ million per year or some outrageous price. I wouldn't go a cent about 5 mil, especially until he proves that he can get back to that level he was at a year ago.
If we don't go a cent above 5 mil, he will not re-sign, so yes we will be going above 5 mil for sure. He's going to want Phaneuf money, you can bank on that. It might be a slight overpayment right now, but look at what Boyle got and what Campbell is rumored to be seeking per year, around 6.5 mil. I'd take Bouw over those two in less than a milisecond. It's well worth it, it'll pay off big time down the road.

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05-18-2008, 10:57 PM
  #75
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If we don't go a cent above 5 mil, he will not re-sign, so yes we will be going above 5 mil for sure. He's going to want Phaneuf money, you can bank on that. It might be a slight overpayment right now, but look at what Boyle got and what Campbell is rumored to be seeking per year, around 6.5 mil. I'd take Bouw over those two in less than a milisecond. It's well worth it, it'll pay off big time down the road.

In my eyes, Bouw is a good #1 defensman but is not a franchise defensman. I think very few players are franchise dmen. Pronger and Lidstrom are the two that come to mind, but in the future, guys like Phaneuf, Burns, and Erik Johnson could become those type of dominant physically, offensively, and capable of changing a game in several facets. Bouw IMO can't change a game on his own but he can be an incredible player and asset for us, eating up minutes and preventing the top forwards on the other teams from scoring. I don't see him as having the ability to change a game in several facets, be it with a big hit or big goal. That's the reason why I don't think he belongs in that top top price range. He's an excellent #1 dman with the ability to perhaps rise into that franchise dman status still, but because of his weakish slapshot and less than stellar hockey sense, I believe he'll be limited, which is why I think it's a pretty risky investment.

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