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Jagr/Rangers to Begin Contract Negotiations Next Week -- Sather after Joni Pitkanen

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Old
05-18-2008, 10:07 PM
  #101
tiger_80
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Well Staal is off the table. At least that is the general and wise assumption.

Rangers have need of offensive PPQB type D man but dont really have any Bona Fide sure things to trade away. They have players with excellent "potential".

Prucha
Dawes
Callahan

In Hartford and beyond:

Cherepenov
Anisimov
Bourret
Sanguinetti
Korpikoski


The D corp right now

Roszival
Malik
Mara
Struds are all UFA TO BE


That leaves Tyutin, Staal, Girardi signed and unlikely to be traded.



How sour is Edmonton on Schremp? I think Sather would have an interest if he could really get a GREAT deal. Buy low on Schremp and see if Renny can teach him to skate and play defense.

But what would the Oil expect back for Joni?

Pruchas value is pretty low and the other guys are all unproven.

Prucha + 1st round pick ?
I don't think Oilers and Rangers make good trading partners. What we need is a shut down d-man and a top 6 scorer.

If Staal and Tyutin are off the table, as many of you guys seem to suggest, then there is nothing you can offer that would be enticing enough.
Oilers have a bunch of of small skilled forwards, so enigmatic Petr Prucha is not very interesting to the Oilers' organization, I presume.

A deal that could be interesting from the Oilers' perspective is
Pitkanen for Tyutin and Montoya, but yes, I know it's not happening...

As far as Schremp is concerned, I don't think Lowe is in any hurry to trade the guy. Having said that, if the right deal came along, Schremp would be moved.

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05-18-2008, 10:15 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post

Did you read the entire column by Brooks?Robert Lang?please
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The Rangers do not need Lang at all. I'm not sure any team does. Dubinsky is doing just fine.
Why all the hate for Lang?

76 GP
21 G
33 A
54 PTS
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7 PPG
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The guy is a quality 2nd line center. He is responsible defensively and still has good offensive tools. He would easily have been a 30+ Goal - 40+ Assists guy if Havlat was made of another material besides glass.

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05-18-2008, 10:22 PM
  #103
Anthony Mauro
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Why? For a better player. Signing a new deal doesn't make a player untouchable... plans change... if the Pens got drunk and offered Malkin for Tyutin, would you not do it just because he recently extended?
Absolutely not, what part of untouchable don't you understand? At his new contract, we better not give him up just to pay Malkin an insane amount of money

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05-18-2008, 10:28 PM
  #104
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You haven't seen Pitkanen's play the last two seasons.The Flyers couldn't wait to dump him and his performance in Edmonton hasn't caused Edmonton to open up the coffers.Two teams giving up on him in less than 1 year in a league where skating defenseman are a premimum.That doesn't raise more than a couple of red flags?

Pitkanen hasn't been the same player since the abdominal muscle tear which required surgery two years ago.

Tyutin's play deteriorated?Huh
Great, so Pitkanen is **** and Tyutin has played at a high level without fail. Can't have one without the other. I don't care that Philly traded him. This is the team who goes through more players than jockstraps in a year. A team that can't go a month without a trade.

A freakin' abdominal muscle tear is going to linger with a professional athlete for two years? It's not a low back injury. I wonder what Tyutin's excuse is for his terrible play the second half of the season...he doesn't have one. He just plain sucked.

Take off the homer glasses bud, Pitkanen may not be the most complete defenseman out there but he's a definite upgrade from Tyutin and provides us with a little more fire for an attack from the backline. We need that.

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Old
05-18-2008, 10:50 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Tyutin, Prucha + 3rd 08

I might bump that to a 2nd if we could get Torres coming back.

Prucha could easily net 30 again, he obviously has the skill, but he hasn't been used this season the way he was the previous two. He was logging top minutes on the power play with Jagr and Nylander for a lot of his rookie and sophomore seasons. Now he's limited to 3rd or 4th line minutes and no PP time.

Schremp is a great young player, but he's also a center, which we're overloaded at to begin with. If he could play wing, he might be of interest, but he does come with some people saying he has a bad attitude. Not to mention he's a 'dangler' and doesn't appear to be much of a two way forward. However, like I've said before, I think Renney could do a lot with Schremp.
Schremp played exclusively wing on the farm this season, and excelled at it. He played mostly LW, but he has said that he is comfortable playing RW as well (which is usually where he is put on the PP). He can play any forward position and do well. His bad attitude was fixed almost immediately after the draft too, when he got a wakeup call from the Oilers and from a power skating coach that nothing was going to come easy for him. Since then, he has been all dedication, and is going to California to train with the team veterans to better prepare himself for next season. He has also worked on his 2-way game to where he is no longer a defensive liability (though not good defensively), and has worked himself into being an average-decent skater. Not fast, but definitely not slow anymore. And his hands, passing, and shot are all still top-notch, especially his one-timer. Pair him with someone offensively talented like Gomez, and he would do very well IMO.

Can anyone tell me more about Tyutin's game? I hear that he is a tough, stay-at-home guy. How accurate is that? I can't really judge the deals until I hear a little more about the guy.

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05-18-2008, 11:27 PM
  #106
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I just don't know about Pitkanen. He was terrible with the Flyers at times in 07, had the home fans booing him..he really couldn't handle Philly, so I have my doubts about him in New York. And I would not trade Tyutin for him.

I do think that he might be a nice fit on a defensive pairing with Tyutin, but that's depending on the price Edmonton would want..honestly, after trading Lupul for him, I don't know if they would even want Tyutin.

I think Campbell is really the ideal d-man for this team, but unfortunately his potential monster payday puts a damper on those thoughts.

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05-18-2008, 11:45 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by danno2530 View Post
I just don't know about Pitkanen. He was terrible with the Flyers at times in 07, had the home fans booing him..he really couldn't handle Philly, so I have my doubts about him in New York. And I would not trade Tyutin for him.

I do think that he might be a nice fit on a defensive pairing with Tyutin, but that's depending on the price Edmonton would want..honestly, after trading Lupul for him, I don't know if they would even want Tyutin.

I think Campbell is really the ideal d-man for this team, but unfortunately his potential monster payday puts a damper on those thoughts.
Never know...Drury can lure Campbell into a Rangers jersey for a fair price

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05-19-2008, 12:55 AM
  #108
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=513750

I've been hoping for this to happen for awhile so I was happy to see this article (also very happy to see we're trying to bring back Jagr). I got some good feedback there for Prucha + Tyutin for Pitkanen so we'll see if Sather can hammer something similar out. I personally have never found Tyutin to be all that consistent and, while I'll admit my judgment is clouded by my most recent memories of him, I can't imagine not trading him up for Pitkanen. By all accounts Pitkanen's better moments are far superior to Tyutin's and I would trade a little bit of consistency (and as I mentioned, I really see it as a LITTLE bit though that may not be the case) for a better player any day (though I could easily come to regret that). I wonder if it might be possible to get Schremp if we threw in Backman and a pick/low prospect to that offer?

edit: if anyone is interested, this was my original plan for the offseason, though I switched Prucha and Dawes in the deal after thinking about it a little more and probably switch Dawes in the lineup with Avery... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...4#post13993974

I'm not sure if that would ever work out under the cap but if everything went right this offseason in my eyes, that'd be the team...


Last edited by NYReign: 05-19-2008 at 01:00 AM.
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Old
05-19-2008, 01:02 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by NYReign View Post
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=513750

I've been hoping for this to happen for awhile so I was happy to see this article (also very happy to see we're trying to bring back Jagr). I got some good feedback there for Prucha + Tyutin for Pitkanen so we'll see if Sather can hammer something similar out. I personally have never found Tyutin to be all that consistent and, while I'll admit my judgment is clouded by my most recent memories of him, I can't imagine not trading him up for Pitkanen. By all accounts Pitkanen's better moments are far superior to Tyutin's and I would trade a little bit of consistency (and as I mentioned, I really see it as a LITTLE bit though that may not be the case) for a better player any day (though I could easily come to regret that). I wonder if it might be possible to get Schremp if we threw in Backman and a pick/low prospect to that offer?

edit: if anyone is interested, this was my original plan for the offseason, though I switched Prucha and Dawes in the deal after thinking about it a little more... http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...4#post13993974

I'm not sure if that would ever work out under the cap but if everything went right this offseason in my eyes, that'd be the team...
To me, it seems like most Oilers fans rejected the deal.

And no to the Backman thing for sure. We already have too many players of Backman's skill level.

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05-19-2008, 01:10 AM
  #110
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lol yeah trading Backman is a bit of a pipe dream...that's what the offseason's all about though, imagining what could happen

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05-19-2008, 03:18 AM
  #111
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Stay away from Pitkanen.

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05-19-2008, 07:24 AM
  #112
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The thing with giving up Tyutin is he's still very young and he's established himself as a solid top 4. Some may think he's too inconsistent. There are things that people miss here. Despite the lack of points he has good skills--he can carry the puck out of his zone--he's a very good passer. He's a guy who plays a physical game (led the team in hits) without contstantly making trips to the penalty box. Though I expect Stall to surpass him soon as a more physical player--Fedor was our most physical defenseman last year. That being said getting Pitkanen here without moving Staal, Tyutin or Girardi would give us a very young--but also a very solid top 4. I would really like that group. Two other players I would not like to move--Cherepanov and Sanguinetti. Dubinsky is also out. I'd consider draft picks including high ones, Anisimov (that one would hurt) , Prucha, Dawes (who IMO still has a lot of upside), Callahan, Korpikoski and of course Backman as pieces I'd be willing to package.

On the subject of Robert Lang again--his name pops up every year. We are talking about a 38 year old center. The Rangers do not need to get older. We have enough centerman--and three of them are superior to Lang IMO (Gomez, Drury, Dubinsky). I've of the opinion that Robert hasn't always played with a lot of heart. I've never particularly cared for him--that's just one opinion though--there are others who see him differently. At his age though and considering we don't look to have a lot of cap space he's definitely out.


Last edited by eco's bones: 05-19-2008 at 07:33 AM.
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Old
05-19-2008, 08:12 AM
  #113
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If Lowe starts dropping names like Dubinksy, Staal or Cherepanov, I'll pass. I like Tyutin, but he seems like he's hit his ceiling. Sure he's still young, but he hasn't made any significant steps towards improvement over the last year and a half. If anything, he's gone backwards in most people's eyes, including my own.

The Tyutin and Prucha for Pits deal is basically giving 3 under achieving players a needed change of scenery. If Schremp can play the wing, I'd throw in a pick or prospect to get him as well.

I still think the better option is an offer sheet J-Bo and signing Orpik or Stuart.

Or hell, do both!

Staal - Bouwmeester
Girardi - Pitkanen
Backman - Orpik

Then slot Sangs in there when Backman is gone. Oh lordy I wet myself.


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05-19-2008, 08:12 AM
  #114
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lol yeah trading Backman is a bit of a pipe dream...that's what the offseason's all about though, imagining what could happen
if he got traded i would parade down my block

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05-19-2008, 11:06 AM
  #115
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I feel like there are a lot of people who are ready to give up on Tyutin at far too young an age.

He is a good nhl defenseman. Give him a couple more years he could be great.

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05-19-2008, 11:30 AM
  #116
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I know Toots dissapointing play in the last series is still fresh in everyones mind but I don't think we should be quick to move him. Sometimes when a player doesn't reach his perceived potential we view him as a failure. A few years back we all hoped Toots would develop into a top pairing D-man with more offensive upside then he has shown. He hasn't reached that potential but he has turned into a very solid #3-#4 Dman. He plays physical and is one of the few guys on our backline who forces the other team to keep their head up when they are crossing our blue line. He is signed to a cap friendly contract for a top 4 dman for the next 4 years and has good chemistry with Girardi. He may have reached his ceiling but he is currently a pretty solid NHL Dman, so his ceiling isn't that bad.

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05-19-2008, 11:33 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Lowe starts dropping names like Dubinksy, Staal or Cherepanov, I'll pass. I like Tyutin, but he seems like he's hit his ceiling. Sure he's still young, but he hasn't made any significant steps towards improvement over the last year and a half. If anything, he's gone backwards in most people's eyes, including my own.

The Tyutin and Prucha for Pits deal is basically giving 3 under achieving players a needed change of scenery. If Schremp can play the wing, I'd throw in a pick or prospect to get him as well.

I still think the better option is an offer sheet J-Bo and signing Orpik or Stuart.

Or hell, do both!

Staal - Bouwmeester
Girardi - Pitkanen
Backman - Orpik

Then slot Sangs in there when Backman is gone. Oh lordy I wet myself.

if tyutin was to be traded for pitkanen, i would turn around and try to trade sanguinetti, dawes, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08 for boumeester instead of an offer sheet

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05-19-2008, 11:45 AM
  #118
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Stay away from Pitkanen.
Agreed

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05-19-2008, 12:23 PM
  #119
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if tyutin was to be traded for pitkanen, i would turn around and try to trade sanguinetti, dawes, bourret, 1st 08, 2nd 08 for boumeester instead of an offer sheet
Boumeester isnt worth that much, im sorry.

But i see where your logic is, getting a young, top pair out of it.

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05-19-2008, 12:28 PM
  #120
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Boumeester isnt worth that much, im sorry.

But i see where your logic is, getting a young, top pair out of it.
No he's not, in fact, he's worth more. The only proven thing in that package is Dawes and he's a borderline 2nd line winger. Bourret is garbage. Sanguinetti is a top prospect who has not yet stepped on ice. 20th and 50 picks don't really pull this trade up to JB's value.

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05-19-2008, 01:20 PM
  #121
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I like Tyutin, but he seems like he's hit his ceiling. Sure he's still young, but he hasn't made any significant steps towards improvement over the last year and a half. If anything, he's gone backwards in most people's eyes, including my own.
I dispute your second statement -- he's struggled through some tough times towards the end of the year but I don't know if I would call it a step backwards. And I think the first part of your assessment is way off base. He's a defenseman and most don't reach their ceiling until their mid-late 20s. Give things some time. This is a very young defensive core and their anticipated improvement over the next 3-5 years is probably the brighest hope for the future that the Rangers have.

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05-19-2008, 02:10 PM
  #122
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Pitkanen was unbelievable when he was playing with Forsberg and he could connect nicely with Jagr. In Edmonton he didn't connect with guys like Hemsky or Gagner until the end of the season and it took a while for the coaching staff to understand/get through to him.

He was also playing with a strained groin for most of the season and his speed was therefore limited at times, but he will easliy be a No.1 defenceman that plays 27+min per night and score 40-50 points a season.

It would take more than Tyutin to land Pitkanen and the Oilers have a glut of talented forwards (15 guys vying for 12 spots) so it would have to be someone like Girardi if a trade were to occur.

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05-19-2008, 02:31 PM
  #123
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I know Toots dissapointing play in the last series is still fresh in everyones mind but I don't think we should be quick to move him.
People wouldn't be disappointed if it was just the last series. But his play took a downward turn after January and on.

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Sometimes when a player doesn't reach his perceived potential we view him as a failure.
I think alot of people have gotten over the fact that he will not be putting up monster numbers like his junior totals would indicate. Those who saw him in Guelph should have been aware of this anyways and not surprised.

It's a stretch, but those who are saying he's been a failure are most likely pointing to his regression. I wouldn't say it so dramatically, but Toots got a whole lot less reliable, steady, physical, and able with the puck as the season wore on. That's what's really disappointing.

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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
A few years back we all hoped Toots would develop into a top pairing D-man with more offensive upside then he has shown. He hasn't reached that potential but he has turned into a very solid #3-#4 Dman. He plays physical and is one of the few guys on our backline who forces the other team to keep their head up when they are crossing our blue line. He is signed to a cap friendly contract for a top 4 dman for the next 4 years and has good chemistry with Girardi. He may have reached his ceiling but he is currently a pretty solid NHL Dman, so his ceiling isn't that bad.
There's nothing wrong with a guy like Tyutin, and we most certainly should be icing a team next year with him on it. But to think that he can't go in a trade for a defenseman who is as tenured and has just as much talent or more is silly.

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05-19-2008, 02:44 PM
  #124
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Boumeester isnt worth that much, im sorry.

But i see where your logic is, getting a young, top pair out of it.
i was just thinking that with pitkanen here being the same typew of defenceman as sanguinetti is supposed to be at a young age, he might be redundant when he makes it and boumeester would then be the last piece for the defence

staal-boumeester
girardi-pitkanen
orpik-backman/potter

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05-19-2008, 03:17 PM
  #125
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staal-boumeester
girardi-pitkanen
orpik-sanguinetti

nice

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