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Speculation - Martin Havlat on the trade block??

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Old
05-19-2008, 03:15 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
A Star player playing 40 games a season? No thanks, I'd rather keep the 6M in cap space for Rolston or Hossa.
I agree with you, I've been pushing for Rolston for awhile now. I was just pointing out that since Havlat, injuries or not is still considered a star player. So it would take a lot more than a 2nd rd pick.

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05-19-2008, 03:16 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Between the Bolts being unlikely to want Richards in the East and Richards having a NTC and likely not wanting to go to Montreal, I doubt Bob was even in the same galaxy as a shot at Richards.
You are 100 percent right.

It has nothing to do with Gainey and everything to do with Richards.

He didn't want to come here, period.

Frankly, with the media, fans and tax situations being what they are, not many people do, and I don't blame them.

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05-19-2008, 03:17 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by peperebougon View Post
Havlat for a 6th or 7th rounder if they really want him out...they'll do it. If we cannot find a better option this summer. He is signed for just one more year. Not that big of a gamble imo.
Sorry man, but you're dreaming.

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05-19-2008, 03:18 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
Who cares if we have 2 2nd rounders? The 09 draft is going to be one of the deepest entry draft in the NHL history. The more pick you have the better. Furthermore, 2nd round pick with the scouting staff we have are very precious. Let's not do the same mistakes teams did (e.g Atlanta & Nashville) and hypothecate our future for a Injury prone Star player *cough* forsberg.

I'd rather have one more Subban, Latendresse, Carle, etc, in our system than Havlat for less than one season tbh.

Not to mention that the draft takes place in Montreal. Don't get me wrong, I'd sacrifice a good pick for a star player... just not Havlat.
It's ONE 2nd round pick for a potential PPG player and a guy who has been dominant in the playoffs, injuries aside he is a star player in the league. Sure i'd love another Subban, Lats or Carle but sooner rather than later we need to look at the present rather than the future. We've built up enough good prospects and will continue to get many more prospects in the future therefore getting rid of one draft pick will not hurt our future.

Nashville traded away Parent, Upshall and a first rounder for Forsberg who was past his good years, trading away a 2nd round pick and a couple of marginal players for an injury prone star player in his prime is not the same thing.

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05-19-2008, 03:19 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I agree with you, I've been pushing for Rolston for awhile now. I was just pointing out that since Havlat, injuries or not is still considered a star player. So it would take a lot more than a 2nd rd pick.
Oh I'm aware of the cost. I'm just not willing to pay it.

Perhaps if it's just a salary dump like Ferrisfox seems to be suggesting, the price will be more reasonable.

2nd round pick in 09>D'agostini or Grabovski.

I'd be willing to trade those two mid-level prospects.

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05-19-2008, 03:21 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
Oh I'm aware of the cost. I'm just not willing to pay it.

Perhaps if it's just a salary dump like Ferrisfox seems to be suggesting, the price will be more reasonable.

2nd round pick in 09>D'agostini or Grabovski.

I'd be willing to trade those two mid-level prospects.
Oh I see what you're saying, carry on.

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05-19-2008, 03:22 PM
  #57
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I wouldn't be willing to place my bets on somebody I'm sure we wouldn't be able to count on.

Sure for a 7th round but since it won't be the asking price, I don't agree.

The guy will be hurt again and we will all say that we're lucky we didn't sign him. Just remember that when it comes.

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05-19-2008, 03:27 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
It's ONE 2nd round pick for a potential PPG player and a guy who has been dominant in the playoffs, injuries aside he is a star player in the league. Sure i'd love another Subban, Lats or Carle but sooner rather than later we need to look at the present rather than the future. We've built up enough good prospects and will continue to get many more prospects in the future therefore getting rid of one draft pick will not hurt our future.

Nashville traded away Parent, Upshall and a first rounder for Forsberg who was past his good years, trading away a 2nd round pick and a couple of marginal players for an injury prone star player in his prime is not the same thing.
Sure it's for a potential PPG player, but who cares if he has a PPG but played like 40 games during the whole season? Don't forget that he might as well get injured and be out for the season right before the playoffs. He's just THAT injury prone.

The present is now, yes, but Havlat certainly isn't the solution to any of our issues. I'd rather being disappointed by not getting Hossa or Rolston than being disappointed by given away a 2nd round pick in 09 for 40 games of Havlat.

Really? I beg to differ. Btw, Forsberg might have being out of his prime, but he was still pretty good for the Preds in 2007. He was certainly not the reason why Nashville lost against the Sharks, that's for sure.

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05-19-2008, 03:38 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
It's ONE 2nd round pick for a potential PPG player and a guy who has been dominant in the playoffs, injuries aside he is a star player in the league. Sure i'd love another Subban, Lats or Carle but sooner rather than later we need to look at the present rather than the future. We've built up enough good prospects and will continue to get many more prospects in the future therefore getting rid of one draft pick will not hurt our future.

Nashville traded away Parent, Upshall and a first rounder for Forsberg who was past his good years, trading away a 2nd round pick and a couple of marginal players for an injury prone star player in his prime is not the same thing.
Because a team made a glaring mistake (looking back of course), we should do the same type of move to a lesser degree?
Come on, Havlat may break a game open, but he'll miss the next 3. I'd rather give some time on the 2 first lines to the Kostitsyn brothers and Higgins than him.

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05-19-2008, 03:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Because a team made a glaring mistake (looking back of course), we should do the same type of move to a lesser degree?
Come on, Havlat may break a game open, but he'll miss the next 3. I'd rather give some time on the 2 first lines to the Kostitsyn brothers and Higgins than him.
I suggested we should trade a 2nd round pick and Bouillon + D'Ago for him. That's not even close to as much as Parent, Upshall and a 1st rounder.

Higgins also should be on the third line giving us three potential scoring lines, it's just my opinion that it would be worth the gamble to try to go after Havlat. Obviously there is a huge chance he could get hurt again but if healthy we get a star player for a small price.

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05-19-2008, 03:59 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
I suggested we should trade a 2nd round pick and Bouillon + D'Ago for him. That's not even close to as much as Parent, Upshall and a 1st rounder.

Higgins also should be on the third line giving us three potential scoring lines, it's just my opinion that it would be worth the gamble to try to go after Havlat. Obviously there is a huge chance he could get hurt again but if healthy we get a star player for a small price.
Mtl. have not been successful with free agency in the past, I hope it changes this year, but a trade like this is very much worth the risk of losing a 2nd rounder. The Habs have a very strong chance at taking the east next season, but they do need a top forward addition. The future is bright, but next season is most likely Mtl's best shot at the cup for a few seasons. Pittsburgh believed in their ability to make it this year and they paid a heavy price to get Hossa, but it got them to the finals and may get them a cup. Without the additions of Hossa and Gill it would be harder to picture them in the finals.

Chomsky there comes a time when you have to give up a pick or a prospect if it helps the team reach that next level. I wouldn't say Havlat is plan A or B, but at a discounted price he is worth the risk of giving up a 2nd round pick. I doubt Gainey is stock pilling picks just so the Habs draft 15 kids in the Bell Center. Anyways they Chicago might want a second rounder in 2008 and not 2009.

I would try and not involve Bouillion in a trade like this as we have no one to replace him and defense is clearly a key to winning a cup.

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05-19-2008, 04:01 PM
  #62
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Is Corey Crawford still a strong prospect for them? Maybe they'd be interested in Halak. Havlat is an interesting player. He is one of the best in the league when healthy, but he is never healthy. I'd be interested if I knew he'd be healthy for the playoffs, but that is never a certainty. But a team based on skill and speed adding Havlat would be lethal.

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05-19-2008, 04:03 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by LV Hab View Post
Mtl. have not been successful with free agency in the past, I hope it changes this year, but a trade like this is very much worth the risk of losing a 2nd rounder. The Habs have a very strong chance at taking the east next season, but they do need a top forward addition. The future is bright, but next season is most likely Mtl's best shot at the cup for a few seasons. Pittsburgh believed in their ability to make it this year and they paid a heavy price to get Hossa, but it got them to the finals and may get them a cup. Without the additions of Hossa and Gill it would be harder to picture them in the finals.

Chomsky there comes a time when you have to give up a pick or a prospect if it helps the team reach that next level. I wouldn't say Havlat is plan A or B, but at a discounted price he is worth the risk of giving up a 2nd round pick. I doubt Gainey is stock pilling picks just so the Habs draft 15 kids in the Bell Center. Anyways they Chicago might want a second rounder in 2008 and not 2009.

I would try and not involve Bouillion in a trade like this as we have no one to replace him and defense is clearly a key to winning a cup.

Tank? Emelin? We have other prospects like Carle and Korneev (though I doubt he'll come over) and we can put back Streit on D. I don't think it's THAT much of a problem.

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05-19-2008, 04:04 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Is Corey Crawford still a strong prospect for them? Maybe they'd be interested in Halak. Havlat is an interesting player. He is one of the best in the league when healthy, but he is never healthy. I'd be interested if I knew he'd be healthy for the playoffs, but that is never a certainty. But a team based on skill and speed adding Havlat would be lethal.
They were reportedly interested in Halak at the deadline, rumours are they offered Tuomo Ruutu for Halak but BG rejected.

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05-19-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Tank? Emelin? We have other prospects like Carle and Korneev (though I doubt he'll come over) and we can put back Streit on D. I don't think it's THAT much of a problem.
I agree. Bouillon is a 6th d-man making nearly $2 million. I just don't like that whatsoever.

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05-19-2008, 04:48 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
2nd round pick in 09>D'agostini or Grabovski.
/agree

Also a 2nd round pick in 09 no matter how late is it, ranges in the late first round to early second round range on any other given draft year.

I wouldn't be surprised if another Pacioretty came from an 09 2nd rounder.

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05-19-2008, 04:48 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Tank? Emelin? We have other prospects like Carle and Korneev (though I doubt he'll come over) and we can put back Streit on D. I don't think it's THAT much of a problem.
Emelin is still under contract in Russia. Won't come over. Korneev might still be under contract, Thief isn't even sure yet. Carle is a RD and will not be able to replace Bouillon's presence on the third pairing. Tank might be able to replace Bouillon, but again, it's not sure yet, plus he's a rookie who just came over to NA. He probably needs more time. Streit is beyond awful on defence, I'd rather keep Bouillon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LV Hab View Post

Chomsky there comes a time when you have to give up a pick or a prospect if it helps the team reach that next level. I wouldn't say Havlat is plan A or B, but at a discounted price he is worth the risk of giving up a 2nd round pick. I doubt Gainey is stock pilling picks just so the Habs draft 15 kids in the Bell Center. Anyways they Chicago might want a second rounder in 2008 and not 2009.
If you'd bother reading my posts entirely, I clearly stated that I was willing to give to receive. But not for Havlat. He's not even a plan D for me. I'd be willing to give a mid-level prospect and perhaps a 5th round pick, and obviously some scraps like Dandy, but nothing more. I'd also sacrifice Grabovski before D'agostini.

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05-19-2008, 05:02 PM
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If we could magicaly make him unbreakable.
Concrete concrete concrete Concrete concrete concrete!!!

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05-19-2008, 05:04 PM
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Concrete concrete concrete Concrete concrete concrete!!!
Easy. Ironman!

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05-19-2008, 05:08 PM
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Trade Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
Emelin is still under contract in Russia. Won't come over. Korneev might still be under contract, Thief isn't even sure yet. Carle is a RD and will not be able to replace Bouillon's presence on the third pairing. Tank might be able to replace Bouillon, but again, it's not sure yet, plus he's a rookie who just came over to NA. He probably needs more time. Streit is beyond awful on defence, I'd rather keep Bouillon.



If you'd bother reading my posts entirely, I clearly stated that I was willing to give to receive. But not for Havlat. He's not even a plan D for me. I'd be willing to give a mid-level prospect and perhaps a 5th round pick, and obviously some scraps like Dandy, but nothing more. I'd also sacrifice Grabovski before D'agostini.
If you are interested in Havlat you have to mitigate risks and look at other benefits.

If salary is going to Chicago in the form of a $2M plus contract that has to be considered.

A conditional proposal based on Havlat performance with the Canadiens and his signability could work.

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05-19-2008, 05:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
If you are interested in Havlat you have to mitigate risks and look at other benefits.

If salary is going to Chicago in the form of a $2M plus contract that has to be considered.

A conditional proposal based on Havlat performance with the Canadiens and his signability could work.
Ya right, like if Gainey would bother work a trade base on that.

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05-19-2008, 05:22 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Havlat would be the best player on this team, without a doubt. His last playoffs with Ottawa were amazing, he was dominant.

Yes, he's injury prone...but if it's for a mid-level prospect, we'd be stupid not to do it...We've got an abbundance of them. Trade Chipchura and we still have White...
Chipchura is a not a mid-level prospect, he's a top-level checking centre prospect who's been nursed along and is now ready to step and have an impact this year.

White still has some question marks, but is looking good. He's probably 2-3 years away.

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05-19-2008, 05:28 PM
  #73
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Chipchura is a not a mid-level prospect, he's a top-level checking centre prospect who's been nursed along and is now ready to step and have an impact this year.

White still has some question marks, but is looking good. He's probably 2-3 years away.
Thank god, I'm not alone to believe this...

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05-19-2008, 05:30 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
Emelin is still under contract in Russia. Won't come over. Korneev might still be under contract, Thief isn't even sure yet. Carle is a RD and will not be able to replace Bouillon's presence on the third pairing. Tank might be able to replace Bouillon, but again, it's not sure yet, plus he's a rookie who just came over to NA. He probably needs more time. Streit is beyond awful on defence, I'd rather keep Bouillon.
I don't understand why we would trade Bouillon. First, this is the last year on his contract and we don't have cap problems, so there is no need to dump his contract. Second, he's the best option we have at his position (i.e. #6D). Counting on tank, Carle, or any other rookie to start the season is a mistake. What happens if someone like hammer gets injured? Our second pairing becomes two of Tank/O'byrne/Gorges? That is not acceptable for a contending team. Finally, if we trade Bouillon, he's exactly the type of player we will likely try to acquire at the trade deadline. So why trade him now for something like a 5th rounder when we will just have to acquire a player like him for a premium price at the deadline (i.e. 2nd rounder like Hal Gill)?

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05-19-2008, 06:12 PM
  #75
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I don't understand why we would trade Bouillon. First, this is the last year on his contract and we don't have cap problems, so there is no need to dump his contract. Second, he's the best option we have at his position (i.e. #6D). Counting on tank, Carle, or any other rookie to start the season is a mistake. What happens if someone like hammer gets injured? Our second pairing becomes two of Tank/O'byrne/Gorges? That is not acceptable for a contending team. Finally, if we trade Bouillon, he's exactly the type of player we will likely try to acquire at the trade deadline. So why trade him now for something like a 5th rounder when we will just have to acquire a player like him for a premium price at the deadline (i.e. 2nd rounder like Hal Gill)?
We're talking about getting Havlat...not dumping him...

For starters, I thought O'Byrne was great when Komisarek got injured and I don't think we'll need to worry about a Markov/Komisarek/O'Byrne trio playing 25-30 minutes a game with Gorges putting in about 15-20... with Tank getting the rest of the minutes while Hammer is gone.
Either way, if Hammer is gone, and we stil lhave Bouillon, do you really feel much safer with him and O'Byrne on the second pairing with Gorges on the 3rd? I mean, it's fairly much the same to me.
Besides, we'll put in Streit to play some PP minutes and a little even strength minutes against the 3rd line or something like that.

AND if we have Havlat too (and he's not injured), I don't think it's our D that'll be winning us the games.

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