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Old
05-19-2008, 07:40 PM
  #1
GNick42
 
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Gainey visits Picton Castle

Not the most pleasant thread to read but Gainey was down here so I thought I would let the readers know.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9006824.html

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05-19-2008, 08:03 PM
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Not the most uplifting thing I could think of concerning new Habs news. Could have done without the waving starfish when the page loaded.

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05-19-2008, 09:38 PM
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The second comment below the article is amazing. A must read.

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05-19-2008, 09:45 PM
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The second comment below the article is amazing. A must read.
Yes it is, good observation there. I guess this was a kind of 'closure' issue for Bob; not wanting anyone to suffer the same fate as his daughter did.

No parent should ever outlive his child...

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05-19-2008, 10:46 PM
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Born and raised in Nova Scotia I've lived a good portion of my life on the sea. When I was 9 years old a shipwreck took 7 men from my small community, all with families. Which would be only one of several seafaring disasters I can recall in my lifetime. Although I can understand Gainey's anger I do not think he understands what it means to go to sea. The long hours is necessary at times, safety conditions cannot be that of in a factory or any land job. Mother Nature does not chose it to be. Situations arise, storms pop up unpredicted, vessels can have many malifunctions. The ocean is very powerful and merciless. When she claims a victim she never gives it back. When Laura went to go to sea it was one of the risks she chose to take on. By Gainey visiting today and his change in demeanor I got the opinion he reached some small degree of acceptance.

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05-19-2008, 10:51 PM
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The content of this second message is beside the point. Yes, accidents will always happen. However, it doesn't mean that we cannot try to prevent them. Not very smart that second comment.

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05-19-2008, 10:54 PM
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.... By Gainey visiting today and his change in demeanor I got the opinion he reached some small degree of acceptance.
My point exactly, Bob needed that closure i's say...

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05-19-2008, 11:28 PM
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Gainey plus Castle equals = , i dont know do you ,i dont know do you ? yes you do !

Hossa!

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05-20-2008, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Not the most pleasant thread to read but Gainey was down here so I thought I would let the readers know.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9006824.html
Sounds like he achieved the butt-kicking he needed to achieve to get the Picton Castle in line and protect future crew. Good work, Bob!

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05-20-2008, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Born and raised in Nova Scotia I've lived a good portion of my life on the sea. When I was 9 years old a shipwreck took 7 men from my small community, all with families. Which would be only one of several seafaring disasters I can recall in my lifetime. Although I can understand Gainey's anger I do not think he understands what it means to go to sea. The long hours is necessary at times, safety conditions cannot be that of in a factory or any land job. Mother Nature does not chose it to be. Situations arise, storms pop up unpredicted, vessels can have many malifunctions. The ocean is very powerful and merciless. When she claims a victim she never gives it back. When Laura went to go to sea it was one of the risks she chose to take on. By Gainey visiting today and his change in demeanor I got the opinion he reached some small degree of acceptance.
I won'tr argue trhe veracity of what you're saying, you're obviously much better versed in this than I am. I think Gainey's point, and I think it was well illustrated on that Fifth Estate episode a while back was the question as to whether this was 'just one of those things' that happens at sea.

If so, as tough as it is, accept what you can't change. If there was evidence that the norm was not followed, then it becomes a different matter. During the episode that I referred to, experienced maritime people seemed to feel that something did indeed 'smell'.

So, at this point if Gainey feels that all has been done that could be done, and it's time to move on, great. I don't agree that it was a case of naivete though. Moreeso, he wanted to know if this was a case of individual negligence or a tragic but understandable accident. I don't blame him.

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05-20-2008, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
The second comment below the article is amazing. A must read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Born and raised in Nova Scotia I've lived a good portion of my life on the sea. When I was 9 years old a shipwreck took 7 men from my small community, all with families. Which would be only one of several seafaring disasters I can recall in my lifetime. Although I can understand Gainey's anger I do not think he understands what it means to go to sea. The long hours is necessary at times, safety conditions cannot be that of in a factory or any land job. Mother Nature does not chose it to be. Situations arise, storms pop up unpredicted, vessels can have many malifunctions. The ocean is very powerful and merciless. When she claims a victim she never gives it back. When Laura went to go to sea it was one of the risks she chose to take on. By Gainey visiting today and his change in demeanor I got the opinion he reached some small degree of acceptance.
Maybe it is naivete speaking, as I do not have the same experiences as tank and GNick42, but safety standards should be of paramount importance in any workplace.
We can all understand the immenseness of the sea and the unbridalled power the ocean and Mother Nature possess, however as the operators of a business it would seem to me that the owner of the Picton Castle had a responsibility to those he employed, to at the very least take every precaution available and offer as much training as possible, in order to provide a safer working environment. At least when accidents happen and there has been thought and attempt taken towards ensuring the safety of those involved, then you can more easily put closure to the incident.

Looking back at the incident and livung with the "what if's" is not easy, regardless of where the incident took place.

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05-20-2008, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
Maybe it is naivete speaking, as I do not have the same experiences as tank and GNick42, but safety standards should be of paramount importance in any workplace.
We can all understand the immenseness of the sea and the unbridalled power the ocean and Mother Nature possess, however as the operators of a business it would seem to me that the owner of the Picton Castle had a responsibility to those he employed, to at the very least take every precaution available and offer as much training as possible, in order to provide a safer working environment. At least when accidents happen and there has been thought and attempt taken towards ensuring the safety of those involved, then you can more easily put closure to the incident.

Looking back at the incident and livung with the "what if's" is not easy, regardless of where the incident took place.
When I read Gainey's comments about the initial report, and saw the 5th Estate, I think that Moreland was fearful that Gainey was after $, as it seems that the usual reaction is that you wronged me, so you have to pay me. Hence the silence. Gainey's reaction and actions solidified my opinion that he's just wired differently than most of us.

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05-20-2008, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Born and raised in Nova Scotia I've lived a good portion of my life on the sea. When I was 9 years old a shipwreck took 7 men from my small community, all with families. Which would be only one of several seafaring disasters I can recall in my lifetime. Although I can understand Gainey's anger I do not think he understands what it means to go to sea. The long hours is necessary at times, safety conditions cannot be that of in a factory or any land job. Mother Nature does not chose it to be. Situations arise, storms pop up unpredicted, vessels can have many malifunctions. The ocean is very powerful and merciless. When she claims a victim she never gives it back. When Laura went to go to sea it was one of the risks she chose to take on. By Gainey visiting today and his change in demeanor I got the opinion he reached some small degree of acceptance.
You speak a common language that is false. I do not say this to insult you, but it's true. You say sea can't have comparable security measures to those in a factory. But before someone asked himself questions and ways to improve things in the factories, men who worked in that factory said "It's part of the job. We all know there is a risk. There's nothing that can be done about it". Well whenever you take some time to think about what can be done, you find solutions. They might not be 100%, but they can help a lot. I know that you know much more in sailing than I do, but I guess I know more in safety, which, IMO, is the point at hand here.

Wherever you are, if there is an accident happening, appropriate safety measures would have had a good chance of preventing it.

As in sailing, the only point I agree with you is a shipwreck. If the ship is broken, I don't think more can be done. It is the end. But with Laura Gainey, it wasn't the case. Some measures could have been in place. And today, Laura Gainey would still be alive.

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05-20-2008, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by samuehl habs View Post
...You say sea can't have comparable security measures to those in a factory....
Bungee, Parachute, summit-climbing, motorsports... Security has been improved in all of them, up to a point. The inherent danger is part of the reason why people have a go at those. No one parachute from the 2nd floor balcony and you won't see a millionaire team up with other millionaires to climb the mount Royal.

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08-30-2008, 06:47 AM
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http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Nov...a/1075962.html

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08-30-2008, 08:33 AM
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BG is a classy guy...he took a personal issue which no parent should have to face, and then he and his family founded the Gainey Foundation in memory of his daughter and his late wife. He was also able to dig a little deeper after the accident, with hopes of preventing this type of occurence on that ship ever again, with the hope that no other family would have to face what he has.

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08-30-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Born and raised in Nova Scotia I've lived a good portion of my life on the sea. When I was 9 years old a shipwreck took 7 men from my small community, all with families. Which would be only one of several seafaring disasters I can recall in my lifetime. Although I can understand Gainey's anger I do not think he understands what it means to go to sea. The long hours is necessary at times, safety conditions cannot be that of in a factory or any land job. Mother Nature does not chose it to be. Situations arise, storms pop up unpredicted, vessels can have many malifunctions. The ocean is very powerful and merciless. When she claims a victim she never gives it back. When Laura went to go to sea it was one of the risks she chose to take on. By Gainey visiting today and his change in demeanor I got the opinion he reached some small degree of acceptance.
There are many powerful and merciless forces on this planet. Taking reasonable precautions against them is all any employer should provide. The Picton Castle came up woefully short in that respect. Professionals recognize that. Inherent danger in a job or activity does not excuse that responsibility.

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08-30-2008, 03:26 PM
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If you have never spent time at sea, especially the north Atlantic during the winter months, you can never begin to understand what GNick42 is trying to say.

I have & know exactly what he means.

Flemish Cap mid-December is something you cannot comment on unless you have been there & done it!!


That said, I have had dealings with Captain Dan Moreland, years prior to the Gainey incident & he is nothing short of an arrogant, ass covering, short sighted slug as a human being.

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08-30-2008, 04:08 PM
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It's great to see the foundation doing well. BG is a very classy guy and making sure the Picton Castle has way better safety conditions will go along way to preventing another tragedy.

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08-30-2008, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by samuehl habs View Post
You speak a common language that is false. I do not say this to insult you, but it's true. You say sea can't have comparable security measures to those in a factory. But before someone asked himself questions and ways to improve things in the factories, men who worked in that factory said "It's part of the job. We all know there is a risk. There's nothing that can be done about it". Well whenever you take some time to think about what can be done, you find solutions. They might not be 100%, but they can help a lot. I know that you know much more in sailing than I do, but I guess I know more in safety, which, IMO, is the point at hand here.

Wherever you are, if there is an accident happening, appropriate safety measures would have had a good chance of preventing it.

As in sailing, the only point I agree with you is a shipwreck. If the ship is broken, I don't think more can be done. It is the end. But with Laura Gainey, it wasn't the case. Some measures could have been in place. And today, Laura Gainey would still be alive.
Talk about talking out of one's butt!

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Old
08-30-2008, 10:09 PM
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I don't think I explained it the way I wanted to...found it hard to do...working on sea is different ball game than working on land

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09-01-2008, 07:23 AM
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I don't think I explained it the way I wanted to...found it hard to do...working on sea is different ball game than working on land
I agree... it is a whole different ballgame. It is difficult and it is nowhere near as safe as working on land.

However that doesn't mean that employers on the sea shouldn't be challenged if they are not taking every possible safety precaution that they can. They will never make it as safe as working on land, but they should be doing everything the can to make it as safe as possible.

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09-01-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Uwey View Post
If you have never spent time at sea, especially the north Atlantic during the winter months, you can never begin to understand what GNick42 is trying to say.

I have & know exactly what he means.

Flemish Cap mid-December is something you cannot comment on unless you have been there & done it!!


That said, I have had dealings with Captain Dan Moreland, years prior to the Gainey incident & he is nothing short of an arrogant, ass covering, short sighted slug as a human being.

I have only have a small taste of the Atlantic having made two crossings by ship in March and November. Even with that I almost slid off the deck during a rain storm. Still scares the crap out of me.

I don't question for a minute the hazards that should be expected. I do question lack of respect for those hazards by the folks operating the Picton Castle. If everything was done properly I think that BG and family would have accepted this tragedy much earlier.

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