HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

A deal for Joni Pitkanen

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-23-2008, 11:16 AM
  #26
nyr7andcounting
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,919
vCash: 500
I wouldn't do it if we have to give up Tyutin. I don't love him but he's not a ton worse than Pitkanen and is about the same age. Pitkanen is better, but considering he wants more money and has had a lot of injuries over the last few years, I don't think he's that much more valuable than Tyutin.

If the Oilers take Backman instead then I'd do it. Backman, Dawes/Prucha, and a pick.

nyr7andcounting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 11:26 AM
  #27
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,011
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Hi Rangers Fans! I am proposing this topic in regards to Joni Pitkanen who has been a hot topic of coming to the big apple.


Would you consider this deal, if you were Glen Sather?


To Edmonton: Nigel Dawes, Fedor Tyutin, Peter Prucha, 2nd Pick
To New York: Joni Pitkanen, Ryan Omarra, 4th pick


I am ready to take on any snide remarks on this topic, I feel most fans here will feel this is a major overpayment, correct?

I am just inquiring your thoughts to know your guys's perspective on acquiring Pitkanen?

Again Im saying, flame me if you please!
Take out the picks. Change O'Marra to a roster player like Torres or Pisani and it's a lot closer

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 12:38 PM
  #28
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
no dawes or o'marra......i think pitkanen is a very unique defenceman and i feel tyutin can be replaced easier(orpik) than finding a pitkanen type player as he is so good onthe rush and in transition and yet is barely ever cought up ice...he is 25 and has GREAT skill....tyutin, prucha, 3rd 08 for pitkanen, schremp
LA has our 3rd this year as far as I know. Edm would want the 2nd rounder I'd imagine.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 12:47 PM
  #29
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
it's amazing that everybody complains we don't hit enough, but we want to trade our leading hitter and best hitter on defense in Tyutin. I don't get it.

I hope we don't trade tyutin.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 12:47 PM
  #30
jumptheshark
the burn out
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 54,811
vCash: 132
From an oiler perspective--I think the route of the trade offer is Pitkanen for Prucha. From an oiler perspective that is not enough. I know we are not going to get Stall, but I think the oiler would add a player like torres or someone for the Rangers to add a high pick or top prospect

jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 12:48 PM
  #31
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,011
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
it's amazing that everybody complains we don't hit enough, but we want to trade our leading hitter and best hitter on defense in Tyutin. I don't get it.

I hope we don't trade tyutin.
That's certainly more of statement regarding our blueline than it is of Tyutin's play.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 12:52 PM
  #32
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
That's certainly more of statement regarding our blueline than it is of Tyutin's play.
Tyutin lead the team in hits.... I think it is more of a statement of our entire team. But yeah you are correct.

I personally think that Girardi and Tyutin should be split up next year. Since December they just looked like they didn't belong together. First Girardis game went south and than when he started playing well Tyutins game went south. They just didn't seem to be on the same page.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 12:53 PM
  #33
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,011
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I personally think that Girardi and Tyutin should be split up next year. Since December they just looked like they didn't belong together. First Girardis game went south and than when he started playing well Tyutins game went south. They just didn't seem to be on the same page.
Yeah I think it's time for that to happen as well.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:01 PM
  #34
FutureGM97
Registered User
 
FutureGM97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,833
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FutureGM97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Yeah I think it's time for that to happen as well.
Which is good because now we can trade either of them for something without feeling that we lost some chemistry. I think I would rather trade Tyutin but if either of them goes i won't miss them.

FutureGM97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:05 PM
  #35
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Which is good because now we can trade either of them for something without feeling that we lost some chemistry. I think I would rather trade Tyutin but if either of them goes i won't miss them.
y trade them, if you think that they could be better if they didn't play together. Would really want to trade either.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:20 PM
  #36
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,031
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
The only reason why the Rangers were able to sign Rozsival after the lockout was because he had missed most of the last two seasons due to a serious knee injury and most people in hockey thought he was too injury prone and/or unable to recover from the surgery.
Eh, it wasn't really like Rozsival was a hot commodity who just had the injury problem keeping teams away. He was just viewed as a so-so defenseman and no one cared enough to take a chance on him except the Rangers.

As for Tyutin for Pitkanen, Joni has a rep for being soft and I feel reluctant to downgrade in the toughness department on defense right now.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:27 PM
  #37
MisterUnspoken
Vintage
 
MisterUnspoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 10,080
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to MisterUnspoken
How is Pitkanen a significant upgrade on Tyutin let alone Oiler posters asking for Staal... this thread is comical at best.

Tyutin is one of our better defenders imo. It's funny he has a less than stellar season and all of a sudden he's trade bait. If Tyutin is traded this organization imo heads right back into the quick fix direction of trading home grown youth for an "established" (if you can call Joni that) product that may or may not even fit into what the Rangers are trying to do. Further what trade in the last few seasons has Sather made that would indicate the Rangers may even consider moving Tyutin? I don't see any indicators.

I don't see it as worth the risk but again everyone who is in love with what Pitkanen's "potential" is.... will continue to insist we "upgrade" with him.

MisterUnspoken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:33 PM
  #38
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,031
vCash: 500
I don't think Tyutin's season was even less than stellar as a whole. He had his down times, but so did the rest of the defensemen. Including Girardi, whom everyone seems to love

Pitkanen would really only be an upgrade if he got himself straightened out and reached his potential, I think.

His offensive game is way way beyond Tyutin's, but he's soft and inconsistent on defense it seems.

Pitkanen has better upside, but I find it hard to be certain that adding him and subtracting Tyutin makes the blueline better for sure at this point. It could be a big improvement, or it could weaken the defense

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:37 PM
  #39
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,267
vCash: 500
Pitkanen and a 4th for Tyutin, Prucha, and a 2nd would be a good deal I'd say.

I would do it. However; that is; only if Pitkanen decides to enter reality and realize he's not worth more than $4M atm.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:38 PM
  #40
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,666
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Eh, it wasn't really like Rozsival was a hot commodity who just had the injury problem keeping teams away. He was just viewed as a so-so defenseman and no one cared enough to take a chance on him except the Rangers.

As for Tyutin for Pitkanen, Joni has a rep for being soft and I feel reluctant to downgrade in the toughness department on defense right now.
the two biggest needs on the blueline are puckmovers and physicality IMO. moving Tyutin for Pitkanen helps one of them, and the other can be addressed with UFA signings.

Quote:
It's funny he has a less than stellar season and all of a sudden he's trade bait.
sounds like Pitkanen, only his stellarness was even more stellar.

__________________


Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Thirty One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:44 PM
  #41
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
the two biggest needs on the blueline are puckmovers and physicality IMO. moving Tyutin for Pitkanen helps one of them, and the other can be addressed with UFA signings.
but moving Tyutin for Pitkanen will lower the physicality alot. I personally would rather trade Girardi for Pitkanen over Tyutin. Tytuin is our most physical dman (sad but true). There is no guarantee that we will sign any physical dmen such as Orpik. So why risk losing our best hitting dman for on offensive dman. There is no reason to do it. Girardi isn't as physical as Tyutin and both are about the same defensively so he is a better choice to be traded. Plus its not like Girardi is the greatest point man, and Pits will improve that.

This way we still have our most physical dman in tyutin, and a better point man in pitkanen. That being said, I don't want to trade either for Pitkanen. I don't want pitkanen near this team.

Go and sign liles to run the point.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:46 PM
  #42
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
but moving Tyutin for Pitkanen will lower the physicality alot. I personally would rather trade Girardi for Pitkanen over Tyutin. Tytuin is our most physical dman (sad but true). There is no guarantee that we will sign any physical dmen such as Orpik. So why risk losing our best hitting dman for on offensive dman. There is no reason to do it. Girardi isn't as physical as Tyutin and both are about the same defensively so he is a better choice to be traded. Plus its not like Girardi is the greatest point man, and Pits will improve that.

This way we still have our most physical dman in tyutin, and a better point man in pitkanen. That being said, I don't want to trade either for Pitkanen. I don't want pitkanen near this team.

Go and sign liles to run the point.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Pitkanen the all-around package himself? Getting him for Tyutin and dead weight in Prucha would serve as anything but a bad deal for us. Yes, we'll lose Tyutin's physicality but Staal will buff up this off-season and be quite more physical, that I can almost guarantee happening, and Girardi will be a lot more defensively-focused next year I believe.

Plus, get Pitkanen and Orpik and problem solved. Physicality will always be a problem but not to the extent that we shouldn't trade Tyutin away and get Pitkanen in return.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:56 PM
  #43
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,710
vCash: 500
I'm surprised by how many here feel Tyutin is a physical defenseman. I regard him as a defenseman who is OK in almost every area but not excellent in any area. Then there is the fact that his shot is abominably inaccurate.

Pitknaen at least is a very good offensive dman. His only question mark is rumored personality issues but if we can take Avery's "quirks" we can probably take Pitkanen's quirks.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:56 PM
  #44
NYReign
Registered User
 
NYReign's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York, New York
Country: United States
Posts: 896
vCash: 500
Think of it this way, folks. It seems like a close to sure bet that Orpik will sign with us on July 1st (I can't remember where but I read that he is just waiting for the playoffs to end basically). If we're upgrading the offense at all, Rozsival is gonna have to walk. Orpik > Tyutin for physicality and Pitkanen is a close approximate of Rozsival with better potential who will be cheaper next season. What happens after that we will have to see. I'll admit I've seen Pitkanen one time since he left the Flyers so I don't know an overwhelming amount but it seems to me like people expect him to be a top 2 guy and when he doesn't live up to that they call him inconsistent. Now, if being inconsistent means he is better served as a top 4 guy with a potential to be top 2, then I am all for it since Tyutin doesn't have that potential IMO. If inconsistent means he is like Backman, as a Philly fan said on another thread, then we have to think more about it. But in the end I would do it in either case because I think Orpik can seamlessly step into Tyutin's role and at this point I'd rather take a one year flyer on someone like Pitkanen than drop 5 mil on the frustrating Rozsy. I'll admit that this is a heavy price to pay for what could amount to be an experiment but I expect Orpik to replace Tyuts and Prucha was a healthy scratch anyway so if it works out like we have seen Pitkanen can then I think it will be a great move. And if not I won't kill Sather for trying (unless he is a clone of Backman, there's only so many spineless defensemen I can stand...)

NYReign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:57 PM
  #45
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Pitkanen the all-around package himself? Getting him for Tyutin and dead weight in Prucha would serve as anything but a bad deal for us. Yes, we'll lose Tyutin's physicality but Staal will buff up this off-season and be quite more physical, that I can almost guarantee happening, and Girardi will be a lot more defensively-focused next year I believe.

Plus, get Pitkanen and Orpik and problem solved. Physicality will always be a problem but not to the extent that we shouldn't trade Tyutin away and get Pitkanen in return.
thats the way i think too....orpik is more physical than tyutin and pitkanen fits a HUGE need since leetch left

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 01:57 PM
  #46
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Pitkanen the all-around package himself? Getting him for Tyutin and dead weight in Prucha would serve as anything but a bad deal for us. Yes, we'll lose Tyutin's physicality but Staal will buff up this off-season and be quite more physical, that I can almost guarantee happening, and Girardi will be a lot more defensively-focused next year I believe.

Plus, get Pitkanen and Orpik and problem solved. Physicality will always be a problem but not to the extent that we shouldn't trade Tyutin away and get Pitkanen in return.
ok. you're entire argument is highlighted by assumptions.

1st assumption - that Staal will buff up and be much more physical. Most likely will happen but than again we can't guarantee he will, or by how much. he might buff up by maybe not as much as you expect/want him to.

2nd- Girardi will be more defensively focused- Did he say this to you? How can we guarantee this? I hope he is, but we cannot guarantee this. Especially after seeing this season in which after he scored a couple goals his defense drastically decreased. He thinks he can do more than he actually can offensively which leads to defensive breakdowns. This assumption i would not put my money on, but it could very well happen.

3rd- Since when did we sign Orpik? How do you know that another team won't throw him a 5 yr $4mil a year contract. Don't assume we will definately sign players that you want to sign.

Lastly - Pitkanen is EXTRMELEY injury prone. He has missed 59 games the last 4 yrs. and has never played a full season. Do you really want that? Tyutin has only missed 21 games out of 3 full yrs and has played 1 full season.


Not only that but Pitkanens cap will be much higher than Tyutins, and than we still have to sign a physical dman for who knows what.

Sorry but no way I trade Tyutin for Pitkanen. The only dmen I trade (that could be realistic as of now) Tyutin for is Bouwmeester, Suter or Weber.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 02:05 PM
  #47
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
ok. you're entire argument is highlighted by assumptions.

1st assumption - that Staal will buff up and be much more physical. Most likely will happen but than again we can't guarantee he will, or by how much. he might buff up by maybe not as much as you expect/want him to.

2nd- Girardi will be more defensively focused- Did he say this to you? How can we guarantee this? I hope he is, but we cannot guarantee this. Especially after seeing this season in which after he scored a couple goals his defense drastically decreased. He thinks he can do more than he actually can offensively which leads to defensive breakdowns. This assumption i would not put my money on, but it could very well happen.

3rd- Since when did we sign Orpik? How do you know that another team won't throw him a 5 yr $4mil a year contract. Don't assume we will definately sign players that you want to sign.

Lastly - Pitkanen is EXTRMELEY injury prone. He has missed 59 games the last 4 yrs. and has never played a full season. Do you really want that? Tyutin has only missed 21 games out of 3 full yrs and has played 1 full season.


Not only that but Pitkanens cap will be much higher than Tyutins, and than we still have to sign a physical dman for who knows what.

Sorry but no way I trade Tyutin for Pitkanen. The only dmen I trade (that could be realistic as of now) Tyutin for is Bouwmeester, Suter or Weber.
All of this is assumptions, man.

All off-season talk is ************ about possible changes that may happen to your team for the upcoming season.

I think that Girardi and Staal (especially Staal), will get stronger this off-season. I think that if you get Pitkanen and Orpik your problems are solved on the blue line. There's no other way I can put it.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 02:14 PM
  #48
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
All of this is assumptions, man.

All off-season talk is ************ about possible changes that may happen to your team for the upcoming season.

I think that Girardi and Staal (especially Staal), will get stronger this off-season. I think that if you get Pitkanen and Orpik your problems are solved on the blue line. There's no other way I can put it.
yeah but at what cap cost? their costs could create more problems especially since we need alot of help w/ our top 6 forwards.

Still I don't want an injury waiting to happen type player in Pitkanen who will probably almost be double of what tyutin costs. Just not worth it.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 02:20 PM
  #49
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,603
vCash: 500
I find it amusing that this "Home-Grown" mentality often seems to overshadow the players actual abilities and performance.

I'm wondering if people are so hell-bent on keeping some of our home-grown players, that they fail to realize that the majority of them are simply mediocre NHLers at best.

Do you want to hold out and wait for players to develop? Or do you want to win asap? You can't expect to have both.

Pitkanen, excuses aside, is good replacement for Rozsival. Tyutin's physical game can be replaced by a small trade or by signing a UFA. Tyutin is/was projected to be a great defensemen. He isn't there yet.

If you can get Pitkanen on the 2nd pairing, and add Orpik to the 3rd pairing, you're in better shape than you were last season already even before you find someone to pair with Staal.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-23-2008, 06:10 PM
  #50
MisterUnspoken
Vintage
 
MisterUnspoken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 10,080
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to MisterUnspoken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I find it amusing that this "Home-Grown" mentality often seems to overshadow the players actual abilities and performance.

I'm wondering if people are so hell-bent on keeping some of our home-grown players, that they fail to realize that the majority of them are simply mediocre NHLers at best.

Do you want to hold out and wait for players to develop? Or do you want to win asap? You can't expect to have both.

Pitkanen, excuses aside, is good replacement for Rozsival. Tyutin's physical game can be replaced by a small trade or by signing a UFA. Tyutin is/was projected to be a great defensemen. He isn't there yet.

If you can get Pitkanen on the 2nd pairing, and add Orpik to the 3rd pairing, you're in better shape than you were last season already even before you find someone to pair with Staal.
Tyutin is mediocre NHL talent? Okay. And where was Tyutin expected to be a great defenseman? I'm pretty sure he was supposed to be a steady NHL defenseman and he is.

Your philosophy does not fall in line with that of the Rangers the past few seasons. I don't see how we improve the team by removing one of our better defenseman and replacing him with someone who is a better offensive player. Pitkanen could work well for the Rangers as Roszivals replacement, but we don't let Tyutin go to do it imo.

MisterUnspoken is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.