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Old
05-26-2008, 10:16 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Penguins are a bunch of sore loser cheap shot artists. Instead of spending so much time trying to get into Detriot's heads, why don't they just play some damn hockey.

they are too busy crying.

Eat poo Therrien.

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Old
05-26-2008, 10:23 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Penguins are a bunch of sore loser cheap shot artists. Instead of spending so much time trying to get into Detriot's heads, why don't they just play some damn hockey.
totally agree.. hate to see cheap shots and players gets injured.
gary roberts on franzen was just
even if its playoffs hockey its not cool to go after some ones head.

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Old
05-26-2008, 10:27 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If Montreal had been shutout in two games of the opener for the Stanley cup there'd be total anarchy in here. Half of you would be saying to fire Carbonneau, the other half would be saying to dismantle the team.

Even though Pittsburgh is in the hole they're in, they're not freaking out like, well I'd say we, but I'm not in that group of bipolar, over eccentric habs fans who "think" they know hockey, and how to solve things, when they really just post idiotic solutions to things, so you would be.
Actually pop over to the Pen's board if you have a chance. The last few pages of their GDT look pretty close to ours after a loss.

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Old
05-26-2008, 10:37 PM
  #79
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If you ask me, the Penguins are taking on the persona of their coach at the moment. Undisciplined, arrogant,showing and using too much emotion. Malone's goaltender interference penalty was incredibly stupid and Roberts was running around with some dirty plays.

The series is over in my opinion, the only question is whether Pittsburgh will score more than a goal a game in the series, if they score at all.

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05-26-2008, 10:45 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
If you ask me, the Penguins are taking on the persona of their coach at the moment. Undisciplined, arrogant,showing and using too much emotion. Malone's goaltender interference penalty was incredibly stupid and Roberts was running around with some dirty plays.

The series is over in my opinion, the only question is whether Pittsburgh will score more than a goal a game in the series, if they score at all.
I have a feeling the games in Pittsburgh will be a lot closer, regardless, Detriot will win this series pretty handily in all likelyhood.

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05-26-2008, 10:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I have a feeling the games in Pittsburgh will be a lot closer, regardless, Detriot will win this series pretty handily in all likelyhood.
I'll take it one step further and say the Pen's win game 3 in Pittsburgh. But I think that will be their only win of the series.

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Old
05-26-2008, 10:59 PM
  #82
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Roberts was acting like a sore loser tonight.

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Old
05-26-2008, 11:01 PM
  #83
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Just got home from hockey my self,another shut out!!! Wow Pens better wake up

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Old
05-26-2008, 11:07 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Roberts was acting like a sore loser tonight.
The whole team was. Malone, Malkin, Crosby, Sykora, Roberts, Talbot, Gill and Fleury all had their little childish spazes at one point in the game. They are still too young. When something doesn't go their way they get off their game and act like little girls.

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05-27-2008, 08:25 AM
  #85
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The best team in the East (please don't argue seeds with me, the Pens really are the best team in the East) didn't get dominated by the Wings for two games. They got completely flattened. It's kind of scary to think about how Dallas and the Preds managed to force a game six with this team. How good are the good-to-great teams in the West compared to Pittsburgh, NYR, NJ and Montreal?

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Old
05-27-2008, 08:33 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by anarmandaleb View Post
The best team in the East (please don't argue seeds with me, the Pens really are the best team in the East) didn't get dominated by the Wings for two games. They got completely flattened. It's kind of scary to think about how Dallas and the Preds managed to force a game six with this team. How good are the good-to-great teams in the West compared to Pittsburgh, NYR, NJ and Montreal?
I think the Preds and Stars play against the Wings alot, probably helps equalize things a bit. I was thinking last night that the CH weren't in the group at the top of the west, couldn't compete in a 7 game series with 2 or 3 of those teams, while in the east, I really felt that only Pittsburgh was better.

I think the Wings really benefit from an org. philosophy and structured coiaching. You can see the Bowman influence where certain players have a clear role and understand it. Guys like Drake are useless if you don't have adequate top line offense. When you do, the Drake's and Draper's can concentrate on winning shifts,battles, they have no pressure to make the nice play, just reduce every shift to a puck battle.

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Old
05-27-2008, 08:41 AM
  #87
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If I'm Carbonneau, I'm getting tapes of the Red Wings' games. That team is a blueprint of how the Canadiens, specifically, should try to play. And the Habs have the players to do it, perhaps not as well, but their personnel is very suited to that style of game. The Habs have the skilled forwards, the team speed, the passing ability, the mobile and skilled defensemen... and just enough snarl, not too much, no hitting "for intimidation", just to stop players and recover the puck. This year was a step in the right direction for the Habs, but they need to move more towards a better puck possession game. Though I don't mind the more aggressive, faster version they're playing, not at all, but they need to improve the execution.

They're young; they'll learn it together.

Still, I think we're seeing that the Pens may not be as good as advertised... best team in the East or not, Pittsburgh plowed through a badly disorganized, shell-shocked Ottawa team that had not played like a playoff team for most of the season, a surprisingly ineffectual Rangers team that might have been a better match-up for the Wings but never did mesh completely, and a Cinderella Flyers team that somehow escaped, looking like roses, a match-up in which they were thoroughly dominated in play and another where they were outplayed.

They looked really good doing it, and they are a very good team, but the Rangers were the best team they faced in the playoffs and the Blueshirts never seemed to get their stride. I would've liked to see the Pens face a challenge like Boston -- that might have prepared them better for adversity.

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Old
05-27-2008, 08:47 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I think the Preds and Stars play against the Wings alot, probably helps equalize things a bit. I was thinking last night that the CH weren't in the group at the top of the west, couldn't compete in a 7 game series with 2 or 3 of those teams, while in the east, I really felt that only Pittsburgh was better.

I think the Wings really benefit from an org. philosophy and structured coiaching. You can see the Bowman influence where certain players have a clear role and understand it. Guys like Drake are useless if you don't have adequate top line offense. When you do, the Drake's and Draper's can concentrate on winning shifts,battles, they have no pressure to make the nice play, just reduce every shift to a puck battle.
You know, I can't remember who the CBC was interviewing after the game (might have been Draper or Stuart maybe?) who said "it's just a matter of always knowing where your teammates are" and I would also add, "what they do best" because they look extremely prepared no matter who's got the puck and where on the ice they are. It's not just a matter of taking possession of the puck you have to know which teamate to pass it to given where the Pens are at.
The Penguins? I'll let Bob Cole answer this: "and another blind pass from [insert Penguin of your choice here]."

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05-27-2008, 08:49 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
If I'm Carbonneau, I'm getting tapes of the Red Wings' games. That team is a blueprint of how the Canadiens, specifically, should try to play. And the Habs have the players to do it, perhaps not as well, but their personnel is very suited to that style of game. The Habs have the skilled forwards, the team speed, the passing ability, the mobile and skilled defensemen... and just enough snarl, not too much, no hitting "for intimidation", just to stop players and recover the puck. This year was a step in the right direction for the Habs, but they need to move more towards a better puck possession game. Though I don't mind the more aggressive, faster version they're playing, not at all, but they need to improve the execution.

They're young; they'll learn it together.

Still, I think we're seeing that the Pens may not be as good as advertised... best team in the East or not, Pittsburgh plowed through a badly disorganized, shell-shocked Ottawa team that had not played like a playoff team for most of the season, a surprisingly ineffectual Rangers team that might have been a better match-up for the Wings but never did mesh completely, and a Cinderella Flyers team that somehow escaped, looking like roses, a match-up in which they were thoroughly dominated in play and another where they were outplayed.

They looked really good doing it, and they are a very good team, but the Rangers were the best team they faced in the playoffs and the Blueshirts never seemed to get their stride. I would've liked to see the Pens face a challenge like Boston -- that might have prepared them better for adversity.

I was trying to put my finger on it watching last night but I didn't quite get it. Detroit plays a very patient style moiving the puck, helped obviously by guys that have the vision and skill to make little 'leaves' or 'chips' . They don't seem to play with an urgency though. I see it esp. on the pp. Mtl and Pittsburgh play a similar style in that when they're offensive players have the puck, they agressively try and make something happen. Detroit seems to read openings and settle down, re-group and try it again, almost soccer like.

I don't know if I'm explaining it right but there's a patience to their game that doesn't always make them that fun to watch.

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Old
05-27-2008, 08:59 AM
  #90
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It's a simple equation. Detroit has the puck, they never give it up. Malkin, Crosby, Hossa etc. etc. all useless if the puck is not on their sticks and they don't have time, space and respect.

Detroit is letting Pittsburgh carry and move the puck with their D because aside from Gonchar and Whitney, there's no one on their blueline who can really move the puck or be creative. Choking off the Penguins forwards, getting the turn over and useless Pittsburgh is getting caught with three men up-ice.

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Old
05-27-2008, 09:58 AM
  #91
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I was pretty disgusted by Therrien's press conference last night.. he was basically crying and whining that the Wings are obstructing all the time and that's what they're "really good at".

FFS, be a bit more respectful and stop trying to find excuses.. How do his players feel when he cries like that? If I was a player I wouldn't want that kind of "general".

He reminded me of John Stevens.

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Old
05-27-2008, 10:08 AM
  #92
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Therrien is the biggest idiot in the world after saying what he did at the press conference. I am so happy that this guy got fired from Montreal. He's just not NHL worthy and lucky to have all those youngsters.

Go Detroit! I hope Bob is really modeling his team after the Red Wings.

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Old
05-27-2008, 10:37 AM
  #93
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Detroit is a system team. Their system is a puck-possession, rather than trapping, but the key to their game is excellent execution of a strong tactical model.

Outhustling and outhitting them is simply not going to work, much to the chagrin of a certain class of pundits. And it's not a matter of overmatching their talent level, because in all seriousness, talent-wise the Penguins probably have the Wings beat. It's not just about Lidststrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg, because the Pens can't score, and get scored on, when these guys aren't on the ice. It's not their physical game and while they have a great work ethic, it's not the key. Basically, the Wings win because they are smarter, have a better plan, and execute better.

The first necessary, but not sufficient, condition to beating the Wings is matching or beating their system. That requires tactical acumen and I'm not sure Therrien has the Xs and Os to do that. Plus it's difficult to do for a team that lacks experience.

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05-27-2008, 11:33 AM
  #94
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What the duces are you all talking about?

Pens are getting closer with each passing game and it's not even funny.

This will be a one goal game by the time it's over! You watch!

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05-27-2008, 12:46 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I was trying to put my finger on it watching last night but I didn't quite get it. Detroit plays a very patient style moiving the puck, helped obviously by guys that have the vision and skill to make little 'leaves' or 'chips' . They don't seem to play with an urgency though. I see it esp. on the pp. Mtl and Pittsburgh play a similar style in that when they're offensive players have the puck, they agressively try and make something happen. Detroit seems to read openings and settle down, re-group and try it again, almost soccer like.

I don't know if I'm explaining it right but there's a patience to their game that doesn't always make them that fun to watch.
I agree, it is something to watch. Your point is magnified on the Samuelsson goal. So patient, Stuart makes a couple of moves and a couple d to d passes andthen draws two forwards and flips it to Franzen. Samuelsson is already streaking down the middle and Franzen calmly dishes him a pass and Sameulsson is gone. I mean it looked like nothing, but effectively they were being patient and slowly drawing the pens team up the ice andthen they striked with perfect timing and accuracy. Haha, it is totally playing with the Pens' heads too, because they are so impatient and fustrated that they are getting off their game.

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05-27-2008, 01:00 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I was trying to put my finger on it watching last night but I didn't quite get it. Detroit plays a very patient style moiving the puck, helped obviously by guys that have the vision and skill to make little 'leaves' or 'chips' . They don't seem to play with an urgency though. I see it esp. on the pp. Mtl and Pittsburgh play a similar style in that when they're offensive players have the puck, they agressively try and make something happen. Detroit seems to read openings and settle down, re-group and try it again, almost soccer like.

I don't know if I'm explaining it right but there's a patience to their game that doesn't always make them that fun to watch.
watching the 2nd period last night I was thinking "it's like watching men against boys". Not physically, mind you, but mentally. Like Buddah said they're just that much smarter.

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Old
05-27-2008, 02:17 PM
  #97
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Detroit is a system team. Their system is a puck-possession, rather than trapping, but the key to their game is excellent execution of a strong tactical model.

Outhustling and outhitting them is simply not going to work, much to the chagrin of a certain class of pundits. And it's not a matter of overmatching their talent level, because in all seriousness, talent-wise the Penguins probably have the Wings beat. It's not just about Lidststrom, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg, because the Pens can't score, and get scored on, when these guys aren't on the ice. It's not their physical game and while they have a great work ethic, it's not the key. Basically, the Wings win because they are smarter, have a better plan, and execute better.

The first necessary, but not sufficient, condition to beating the Wings is matching or beating their system. That requires tactical acumen and I'm not sure Therrien has the Xs and Os to do that. Plus it's difficult to do for a team that lacks experience.
Denis Savard and My Hawks had no problem with the Red Wings. We were 5-3 and were the 1st team in almost 20 yrs to beat Det 5 times in a year.

Savard>>>Therrien
Toews-Kane>>>>Crosby-Malkin

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05-27-2008, 02:51 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Denis Savard and My Hawks had no problem with the Red Wings. We were 5-3 and were the 1st team in almost 20 yrs to beat Det 5 times in a year.

Savard>>>Therrien
Toews-Kane>>>>Crosby-Malkin
Why don't you share some light on what they did to break them down?

BTW, Toews and Kane are not better than Malkin and Crosby.

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05-27-2008, 04:20 PM
  #99
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Why don't you share some light on what they did to break them down?

BTW, Toews and Kane are not better than Malkin and Crosby.
Well a couple of things the Hawks did

1-Played the Wings tough (Clean hits mind you)
2-Used are bigger players to carry puck up neutral zone using there reach to keep puck safe from Red Wing defenders (Byfuglien, Lang, Barker)
3-Cut down on the passing. The Red Wings are great at breaking up the pass and by carrying the puck more and using simpler passing lanes we were able to break the Red Wings defense on several occasions.
4-Agressive PK. Hawks scored a bunch of SH goals vs Wings and even the games were we lost we kept the PP off balance by not being afraid to take chances SH.

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05-27-2008, 04:38 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by anarmandaleb View Post
The best team in the East (please don't argue seeds with me, the Pens really are the best team in the East) didn't get dominated by the Wings for two games. They got completely flattened. It's kind of scary to think about how Dallas and the Preds managed to force a game six with this team. How good are the good-to-great teams in the West compared to Pittsburgh, NYR, NJ and Montreal?
Even good teams have their bad moments. Even great teams think it's done before it really is. Reason why you saw that many games against the Preds and the Stars.

While Detroit was and is obviously the best team of the league, I really think it's the matchup. Do we really know if the Rags would not have matchup better against them? Wouldn't be the first time that a better team would lose against a weaker one. Just has to do with matchups.

But it's pretty obvious why Detroit is winning.

1- Their top guns are really TOP GUNS, not copies of. Their transition game is off the chart.
2- They have big guys up front that protects the puck well and even the smaller ones, like Datsyuk, just are master in that domain.
3- Their D is so underrated, even a guy like Lebda as our #4 would make us a total different team. A
4-When everything doesn't go right, Osgood make the saves. No need to be great for him, just good and he is.
5-And more importantly, the players bought the system.

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