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Effect of smaller equipment on Henriks game?

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Old
05-27-2008, 11:32 AM
  #26
Le Golie
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Every goalie has pads that are 11" wide. Brodeur, Luongo, Lundqvist - everyone.

The difference is in the height of the pad. Brodeur's pads are way shorter than Lundqvist's. I'm sure the NHL will make cutting down the thigh-rise a high priority, and the thigh-rise is what Lundqvist uses to cover his five-hole and still have a super wide butterfly.

If they take three inches off the top of each pad, he'll have six inches less coverage between his legs, so he'll have to learn a more compact butterfly.

*If* that happens, he won't be able to play as deep in his net and cover so much area, so he'll have to make adjustments like everyone else. His adjustments will probably be more harsh than anyone else, as I can't think of anyone (maybe Legace) who uses thigh-rises as big as Lundqvist. But he'll adapt.

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05-27-2008, 12:01 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Your observations are wrong.






And you are biased.

If anything Brodeur uses a hell of a lot thicker padding up top then Lundqvist... that or he really is a fat ****.
That's an interesting comment because while it probably seemed like a smart thing to say, suggesting Brodeur's upper body protection is thicker (which you are entirely correct) actually supports the argument against you.

Brodeur's equipment is thicker, because it's old and not not technologically advanced in protection, performance or design.

On the other hand, Lundqvist's upper body armour is new and advanced. It's less dense and much lighter. It is also designed for maximum net coverage. He has parts of his upper body gear designed to cover as much space as possible, in the shoulder and elbow areas. I'm not sure what exact model he has but I believe it's Vaughn and probably looks like this.

The closest image I can find is of this late 90's Bauer Reactor chest protector (you can't see the arms, but the difference in material and shoulder coverage is obvious).Here.

Having a pot-belly appearance does not give a goalie any advantage when he is facing the puck. Being wider certainly does.

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05-27-2008, 12:21 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Every goalie has pads that are 11" wide. Brodeur, Luongo, Lundqvist - everyone.

The difference is in the height of the pad. Brodeur's pads are way shorter than Lundqvist's. I'm sure the NHL will make cutting down the thigh-rise a high priority, and the thigh-rise is what Lundqvist uses to cover his five-hole and still have a super wide butterfly.

If they take three inches off the top of each pad, he'll have six inches less coverage between his legs, so he'll have to learn a more compact butterfly.

*If* that happens, he won't be able to play as deep in his net and cover so much area, so he'll have to make adjustments like everyone else. His adjustments will probably be more harsh than anyone else, as I can't think of anyone (maybe Legace) who uses thigh-rises as big as Lundqvist. But he'll adapt.
That's not necessarily true. Brodeurs pad's are just as long as Lundqvists. In fact, they're probably slightly longer as Brodeur has longer legs than Henrik does and is an inch taller. The real difference is the way the pads are designed. The way the knee channel is positioned has a lot to do with how the pads flex when the goalie drops to his knees. In the pictures you quoted, you can clearly see that while Brodeur's pads flex at the knee due to the deeper channel and higher strap location, Hank's do not. This is merely a result of the different styles of play between them. Hank is a butterfly goalie, while Marty is traditional/athletic keeper.

Brodeur could just as easily use newer equipment, but he chooses not to. I don't see why the fact he refuses to embrace new technology should have any bearing on what other goalies should be allowed to use.

Goalie equipment is like the step child of the NHL. They have no problem bringing in lighter gear for faster skating. New composite sticks that allow forwards and d-men to shoot the puck harder, but Goalies should be forced to use smaller equipment that gives them less protection? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'm a goalie myself, and I still use Heaton Helite series body armor (the same type I'd imagine Marty is using if he's using old equipment, he was always a Heaton guy in the 90's). The equipment isn't any smaller than the latest equipment out there.



The armor I use is almost identical to the one in that picture and it has just as many cheater areas as any of the newer gear.


Last edited by Trxjw: 05-27-2008 at 12:28 PM.
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Old
05-27-2008, 12:35 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
anyone else laughing their @ss off at the fact garth snow is on this committee? Mr. Chest protector himself...

and its kinda odd that the Islanders have both a player and executive on this committee... youd think the idea of variety is not just based on players but also teams, i mean do you think Snow is going to vote in a direction DP wouldnt want... especially w 12 (?) more years left on his contract and a commitment to that team and its success...
The little "wings" on top of the shoulder pads made Garth look silly. Guess the league needs the opinions of perhaps the biggest goalie rule bender to help achieve uniformity.

Whatever works I guess.


Last edited by HAPPY HOUR: 05-28-2008 at 05:22 PM.
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Old
05-27-2008, 01:44 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
That's not necessarily true. Brodeurs pad's are just as long as Lundqvists. In fact, they're probably slightly longer as Brodeur has longer legs than Henrik does and is an inch taller.
Impossible. They are all very secretive about this, but through leaks it has been widely reported that Brodeur's pads had always been 34", but going into this season it is believed he had another .5" added, so he sits somewhere between 34-35" right now. That much is stated in this Toronto Star article.

Lundqvists pads are widely believed to be at the league maximum of 38" inches. The best information on this comes from an equipment dealer at The Hockey Shop who got his hands on a pair of Lundqvist spec TPS's in the summer of 2006. From his measurements he said his pad is 34 + 4" with a 1" boot lifter on the bottom to give him a pad that fits like a 35 + 4.

So basically, he's got somewhere between a 3-5" advantage in each pad. Even looking at the absolute minimum of that scale, Lundqvist's butterfly is a full 6" wider than Brodeur's, just because of the pad size.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Brodeur could just as easily use newer equipment, but he chooses not to. I don't see why the fact he refuses to embrace new technology should have any bearing on what other goalies should be allowed to use.
I totally agree with that, but it's clear the NHL does not, and further changes are coming.

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05-27-2008, 02:03 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
According to the NJ Devils, Brodeur doesn't even wear pads.
too....easy....to.....make.....tampon.....joke.... .



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05-27-2008, 02:22 PM
  #32
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Lundqvist's pad is pretty long going into the five hole haha...

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05-27-2008, 02:24 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Impossible. They are all very secretive about this, but through leaks it has been widely reported that Brodeur's pads had always been 34", but going into this season it is believed he had another .5" added, so he sits somewhere between 34-35" right now. That much is stated in this Toronto Star article.

Lundqvists pads are widely believed to be at the league maximum of 38" inches. The best information on this comes from an equipment dealer at The Hockey Shop who got his hands on a pair of Lundqvist spec TPS's in the summer of 2006. From his measurements he said his pad is 34 + 4" with a 1" boot lifter on the bottom to give him a pad that fits like a 35 + 4.

So basically, he's got somewhere between a 3-5" advantage in each pad. Even looking at the absolute minimum of that scale, Lundqvist's butterfly is a full 6" wider than Brodeur's, just because of the pad size.
Assuming that your facts are straight, which they may very well be after I've looked at a few images, there is another aspect that isn't being discussed. There is nothing a goalie can do to 'increase' his advantage in coverage that doesn't bring along some drawbacks as well.

The fact is that by having longer pads, Lundqvist forces himself to take a lower stance (as is the case with all butterfly goalies). By doing so, he reveals more of the top of the net. I think the argument can be made that any increased coverage he acquires in the lower half of the net, comes by sacrificing coverage in the top of the net. This is supported by the fact that people are always claiming he is easily beaten up high.

Many goalies around the league have similar pad lengths to Lundqvists. Miller, Fleury, Vokoun, Giguere, and even Brodeur.

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05-27-2008, 02:38 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Assuming that your facts are straight, which they may very well be after I've looked at a few images, there is another aspect that isn't being discussed. There is nothing a goalie can do to 'increase' his advantage in coverage that doesn't bring along some drawbacks as well.

The fact is that by having longer pads, Lundqvist forces himself to take a lower stance (as is the case with all butterfly goalies). By doing so, he reveals more of the top of the net. I think the argument can be made that any increased coverage he acquires in the lower half of the net, comes by sacrificing coverage in the top of the net. This is supported by the fact that people are always claiming he is easily beaten up high.

Many goalies around the league have similar pad lengths to Lundqvists. Miller, Fleury, Vokoun, Giguere, and even Brodeur.
I don't get this...why would adding length to a goalie's pads cause him to give up more space higher in the net? Assuming his style doesn't change with longer or shorter pads, he's not giving up anything up top by using longer pads. There's no sacrifice being made elsewhere by using longer pads - if anything maybe you can say the extra weight might affect his reaction time a bit, but given how light the pads are nowadays, I doubt there's really much downside to the extra weight.

The claim that Lundqvist is easily beaten up high does nothing to support your claim either - that has much more to do with his style of play & tendency to drop into the butterfly quickly vs. anything to do with the length of his pads. By your theory though, I guess his ability to cover the top part of the net should improve with a reduction in pad size?

And for the record, I don't think anyone is singling out Lundqvist as the lone offender out there - there are plenty of goalies that use the longest pads allowed.

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05-27-2008, 08:06 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBK27 View Post
I don't get this...why would adding length to a goalie's pads cause him to give up more space higher in the net? Assuming his style doesn't change with longer or shorter pads, he's not giving up anything up top by using longer pads. There's no sacrifice being made elsewhere by using longer pads - if anything maybe you can say the extra weight might affect his reaction time a bit, but given how light the pads are nowadays, I doubt there's really much downside to the extra weight.

The claim that Lundqvist is easily beaten up high does nothing to support your claim either - that has much more to do with his style of play & tendency to drop into the butterfly quickly vs. anything to do with the length of his pads. By your theory though, I guess his ability to cover the top part of the net should improve with a reduction in pad size?

And for the record, I don't think anyone is singling out Lundqvist as the lone offender out there - there are plenty of goalies that use the longest pads allowed.
Your point is valid and completely understandable but I think he is trying to point out that Lundqvist plays that way because of the pads being the length they are. He makes the conscious decision to allow the space up high because the pads afford him to have a greater advantage down low. Therefore the length of the pads leads Lundy to decide to go low in the butterfly early. In short the pad size does change the playing style to a degree.

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Old
05-27-2008, 08:51 PM
  #36
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completely diff styles, so there is no point to argue who pads are smaller.



People also need to rememeber that marty is a fatso that's why he has a gut.

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