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Old
05-26-2008, 10:54 PM
  #1
echlfreak
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Best Possible Line Up

Dumont Arnott Radulov
Erat Legwand Hornqvist
Fiddler Nichol Tootoo
Philstrom Smithson Ortmeyer
Hortichuk Peverly Bochenski


Weber Suter
Zidlicky Zanon
Hamhuis DeVries
Koistinen Niskala
Klien


Mason
Rinne
Ellis- if he signs...not looking good


Where if anywhere can they add any improving players if these players tap out the cap??? Are we any better after spend 14+ Million on the same players??? What other solutions are there or are we re-building/battling for games???

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05-26-2008, 11:32 PM
  #2
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If ortmeyer ever is a regular in our linup again I think I'll puke. If at all possible I would much rather re sign gelinas to play on the 3rd or 4th line. But who knows how much money he wants? Obviosuly this lineup is based alot on how well Hornqvist and Philstrom can play. Personally I think with this lineup this team is battling for the 8th spot again

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05-26-2008, 11:41 PM
  #3
Roger Explosion
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If you are looking for our best possible lineup I think you have to include Steve Sullivan assuming he is healthy (fingers crossed).

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05-27-2008, 12:12 AM
  #4
worstfaceoffmanever
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Originally Posted by Aussie Predator View Post
If you are looking for our best possible lineup I think you have to include Steve Sullivan assuming he is healthy (fingers crossed).
Yeah don't bet on that. I doubt he plays a competitive game again.

Here's what I would like to see us come out of camp with:

Dumont-Arnott-Radulov
Afinogenov-Legwand-Erat
Pihlstrom-Nichol-Tootoo
Fiddler-Bonk-Ortmeyer/Peverley
Hordichuk-Smithson

Weber-Suter
Hamhuis-De Vries
Zidlicky-Koistinen
Zanon

Rinne
Mason/Kolzig


And in Milwaukee:

Vigilante-O'Reilly-Hornqvist
Ma. Santorelli-Mi. Santorelli-Vet. Forward (Bayda? Ellison? Ortmeyer?)
Thuresson-Shafigullin-McKenzie
Wilson-ECHL Forward-Maki

Franson-Henry/Vet. Defenseman (Baumgartner? Jillson?)
Laakso-Sulzer
Yonkman-Swtizer
Matheson

Vet. Goalie (Sabourin? Flaherty?)
Dekanich


Obviously a couple of spots are still up for grabs. I would like to land Afinogenov because the Sabres have said they will be actively shopping Max and if a team is looking to get rid of a guy like that he probably won't be too hard to pry away. Start with Klein head-up and work from there. That give Hornqvist time to adjust in Milwaukee should he need it, but he'll probably go Radulov's route and be up by Thanksgiving. But this is, more than anything, insurance on Hornqvist in case he's not quite ready for the NHL. Besides, if Afinogenov doesn't work out, he's only under contract for one year. If he does work out, we bring in Hornqvist and he can go get a big payday on the open market.

I know Shafigullin is pending an NHL contract but I wouldn't mind seeing him give it a shot for at least a year or two. Glazachev as well. I would prefer to see Snellman and Sjodin that far down the roster but they're both under contract thru next year with their respective clubs. Not sure about Greg and Glaz, but like I said, I would love to see them give NA a shot.

Other than that I think the list is pretty straightforward.

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05-27-2008, 10:28 AM
  #5
echlfreak
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Once Nashville gets Suter and Weber signed up, they will not have enough money to go out and buy and star forward....so you are basically looking at the same line-up as last year and pinning the hopes on Hornqvist or Philstrom to be studs

There only option to get a top six forward is to trade Suter or Zidlicky...and yes Zidlicky's trade clause is up this July 1

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05-27-2008, 10:52 AM
  #6
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I have to agree... With this lineup, we will be fighting for the 8th spot. If we don't resign Ellis, it could be worse.

Poile is "making our bed" with 2nd-tier guys.

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05-27-2008, 10:58 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Once Nashville gets Suter and Weber signed up, they will not have enough money to go out and buy and star forward....so you are basically looking at the same line-up as last year and pinning the hopes on Hornqvist or Philstrom to be studs
If we sign Suter at $3.5M and Weber at $4M or vice versa, then we'll still have $8.5M in cap space on a $54M cap. That gives us the chance to go out and get a guy like Afinogenov via trade who will play here for one year and then leave (he may go back to Russia).

If we trade, say, Klein and Mason for Afinogenov, then the deal is pretty much dollar-for-dollar. And Buffalo might actually take that deal if they really want to get Max off the roster. Remeber the Samsonov trade? Both the players Montreal acquired were bought out the following day.

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05-27-2008, 11:05 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I have to agree... With this lineup, we will be fighting for the 8th spot. If we don't resign Ellis, it could be worse.

Poile is "making our bed" with 2nd-tier guys.
How would not signing Ellis necessarily make thing worse? While I think we should sign him, he's still unproven. For all we know last year could've been a total fluke.

I think you seriously underestimate Hornqvist and Pihlstrom. Hornqvist has a laser shot and Pihlstrom is not afraid to stick his nose in the other team's business, much like Tootoo does (though he fights less and scores more). Our defense is VERY talented and with the addition of Pihlstrom and Hornqvist or a veteran forward, we'll have three really solid lines and a decent fourth line. The only question mark will be goaltending, primarily if Ellis or Rinne can handle the physical demands of a full season as the #1 goaltender.

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05-27-2008, 11:41 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
How would not signing Ellis necessarily make thing worse? While I think we should sign him, he's still unproven. For all we know last year could've been a total fluke.
Were would be had been wihtout Ellis last year? Hard to say exactly, but pretty safe to say we'd be OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS.

Yes, if we start this year without Ellis, I think we are worse off than last year. Sure, Ellis could've had a fluke season.

Maybe Mason rebounds. Maybe Rinne turns into a high caliber goalie in his rookie year. But those are pretty distant maybes in my book. I would rather bank on Ellis not having a fluke season.


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05-27-2008, 12:01 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Were would be had been wihtout Ellis last year? Hard to say exactly, but pretty safe to say we'd be OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS.

Yes, if we start this year without Ellis, I think we are worse off than last year. Sure, Ellis could've had a fluke season.

Maybe Mason rebounds. Maybe Rinne turns into a high caliber goalie in his rookie year. But those are pretty distant maybes in my book.
Ellis being consistently as dominant in the playoffs as he was last year going forward is a pretty distant maybe in my book, as well. Remember that stretch in March where he got pulled 3 or 4 times? Hardly something you'd expect from your starting goaltender.

Rinne is and will be a very talented young goaltender, but the question is whether he's fully recovered from the mugging in Finland and is physically capable of handling a full NHL workload. After last season when he played more than 80% of his team's games, I'd say the answer is yes.

The risk with Ellis is that he may go into a Mason-like funk early in the year and we'll be behind right out of the gate, just like last year. We were in the same scenario last summer with Vokoun and Mason (though for different reasons, admittedly) and look what happened. There is a precedent with this situation, and I don't think Poile will do something like that twice.

Personally, while I think we should sign Ellis, I don't think we will, and Poile will look to sign Kolzig and then flip Mason to Colorado or Dallas once that deal goes down.

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05-27-2008, 01:04 PM
  #11
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Mason's contract makes him virtually immovable... Buffalo, Colorado, Dallas etc... non of these teams are going to want a 3M back-up... the only teams they could trade Mason to are LA and ???

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05-27-2008, 01:32 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Ellis being consistently as dominant in the playoffs as he was last year going forward is a pretty distant maybe in my book, as well. Remember that stretch in March where he got pulled 3 or 4 times? Hardly something you'd expect from your starting goaltender.

Rinne is and will be a very talented young goaltender, but the question is whether he's fully recovered from the mugging in Finland and is physically capable of handling a full NHL workload. After last season when he played more than 80% of his team's games, I'd say the answer is yes.

The risk with Ellis is that he may go into a Mason-like funk early in the year and we'll be behind right out of the gate, just like last year. We were in the same scenario last summer with Vokoun and Mason (though for different reasons, admittedly) and look what happened. There is a precedent with this situation, and I don't think Poile will do something like that twice.

Personally, while I think we should sign Ellis, I don't think we will, and Poile will look to sign Kolzig and then flip Mason to Colorado or Dallas once that deal goes down.
What's this fixation on Kolzig? He's not going to sign cheaply...definitely not for less than Ellis will likely want, so why bother? For all the contributions he's made over the years to the Capitals, they STILL pulled him out in favor of a brand new goalie during their first playoff run in several years. My ideal scenario is re-sign Ellis and take whatever we can get for Mason...but I'd rather go with Mason\Rinne than sign Kolzig.

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05-27-2008, 01:47 PM
  #13
dulzhok
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Ellis being consistently as dominant in the playoffs as he was last year going forward is a pretty distant maybe in my book, as well. Remember that stretch in March where he got pulled 3 or 4 times? Hardly something you'd expect from your starting goaltender.

Rinne is and will be a very talented young goaltender, but the question is whether he's fully recovered from the mugging in Finland and is physically capable of handling a full NHL workload. After last season when he played more than 80% of his team's games, I'd say the answer is yes.

The risk with Ellis is that he may go into a Mason-like funk early in the year and we'll be behind right out of the gate, just like last year. We were in the same scenario last summer with Vokoun and Mason (though for different reasons, admittedly) and look what happened. There is a precedent with this situation, and I don't think Poile will do something like that twice.

Personally, while I think we should sign Ellis, I don't think we will, and Poile will look to sign Kolzig and then flip Mason to Colorado or Dallas once that deal goes down.
I don't expect Ellis to be consistently dominant like he was in the playoffs. But, I would expect him to be better than Mason or rookie Rinne.

Overall, Ellis had a good year with us. 23-10-3, .924sv, 2.34GAA. His play down the stretch got is in the playoffs. His play in playoffs gave us a chance. Yes, it could be a fluke, and he could pull a Mason, though I think Ellis showed more than Mason 2 years ago. But, at this point, it's the best option we have.

I agree, it maybe impossible to move Mason. The only hope is that we package him and a draft pick (3rd-4th rounder?) for "future considerations." Either that, or trade him for another severly overpiced player, like Michael Handzus or something.

If they can't find a suitor for him, Poile needs to consider biting the bullet and buying him out. He will still be counting 1m against our cap for the next 4 years (ouch), but atleast we'll likely have better goaltending (Ellis), and still have our potential "goaltender of the future."

Last option is to wavie him and hope someone claims him on re-entry. We'd be on the hook for half his salary (1.5m) over 2 years. This is slightly cheaper (1 million), and we'd only have to worry about the cap hit for 2 years, instead of 4. But, when is the earliest we can wavie and re-call a player? If not before July 1, it may hurt the Ellis negoiation.

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05-27-2008, 02:05 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I agree, it maybe impossible to move Mason. The only hope is that we package him and a draft pick (3rd-4th rounder?) for "future considerations." Either that, or trade him for another severly overpiced player, like Michael Handzus or something.
No thanks. We'd save money by keeping Mason over doing that.

Quote:
If they can't find a suitor for him, Poile needs to consider biting the bullet and buying him out. He will still be counting 1m against our cap for the next 4 years (ouch), but atleast we'll likely have better goaltending (Ellis), and still have our potential "goaltender of the future."
In 2 years a $1M cap hit won't be anything major. It really isn't now. I would take that.

Quote:
Last option is to wavie him and hope someone claims him on re-entry. We'd be on the hook for half his salary (1.5m) over 2 years. This is slightly cheaper (1 million), and we'd only have to worry about the cap hit for 2 years, instead of 4. But, when is the earliest we can wavie and re-call a player? If not before July 1, it may hurt the Ellis negoiation.
I recall Samsonov being placed on waivers and re-entry waivers in June before he was traded.

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05-27-2008, 02:50 PM
  #15
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If can put him on re-entry waviers after the cup is over, I'm all for it. Seems like the best option, assuming no one wants him for $3m per year. Then if no one bites, we have to consider a buy out.

But, all this should be contingent on us signing Ellis!

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05-27-2008, 03:35 PM
  #16
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Our organization is not in a position of buying out players or having $3 million minor-leaguers.

Mason will be a Predator for the next two years. Ellis will be allowed to have fun testing the market.

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05-27-2008, 04:00 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Our organization is not in a position of buying out players or having $3 million minor-leaguers.

Mason will be a Predator for the next two years. Ellis will be allowed to have fun testing the market.
Ownership wants to spend money to make this team competitive. Now is as good a time as any to start.

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05-27-2008, 04:13 PM
  #18
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What's this fixation on Kolzig? He's not going to sign cheaply...definitely not for less than Ellis will likely want, so why bother? For all the contributions he's made over the years to the Capitals, they STILL pulled him out in favor of a brand new goalie during their first playoff run in several years. My ideal scenario is re-sign Ellis and take whatever we can get for Mason...but I'd rather go with Mason\Rinne than sign Kolzig.
The idea behind Kolzig is that we're getting a mentor for Rinne. Kolzig is a highly experienced goalie and he can pass a lot of that knowledge on to Rinne, possibly accelerating his development by 2-3 years.

While I agree that Kolzig is on the way out, this is a rare opportunity to have an established veteran like Kolzig on the roster to help our young guys along. Of course, if he wants more than $3.5M (which is just over 60% of his 07/08 salary), I say we stick with Mason. Otherwise, we sign Kolzig and move Mason.

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05-27-2008, 04:21 PM
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Our organization is not in a position of buying out players or having $3 million minor-leaguers.

Mason will be a Predator for the next two years. Ellis will be allowed to have fun testing the market.
But our organization is a position to have among the worst goaltending in the league? And our organziation is in a position to potentially miss the playoffs year after year because of it?

Ask Phoenix how the last 4 years have gone with bad goaltending. Or LA. ETC. Don't **** with the goaltending position. We got LUCKY to have Ellis come in a save our butts last year. It's one thing to have a disappointing, overpaid forward buried on the fourth line. It's another to have an dissapoiting, overpaid goalie guarding your crease for the entire season.

I pray that Poile doesn't set us up for a potential disaster, just because he and ownership don't want to cut their loses on a mistake.


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05-27-2008, 04:36 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
The idea behind Kolzig is that we're getting a mentor for Rinne. Kolzig is a highly experienced goalie and he can pass a lot of that knowledge on to Rinne, possibly accelerating his development by 2-3 years.

While I agree that Kolzig is on the way out, this is a rare opportunity to have an established veteran like Kolzig on the roster to help our young guys along. Of course, if he wants more than $3.5M (which is just over 60% of his 07/08 salary), I say we stick with Mason. Otherwise, we sign Kolzig and move Mason.
If we are able to dipose of Mason, we not resign Ellis? He played better than Kolzig last year, and he'll probably cost less than Kolzig. Plus, Kolzig is on the downside of his career. Washington benched him last year in favor of Huet.

While Rinne seems like a nice prospect, and we should definitely give him a chance... it's not like he's a sure-fire NHL starter in the future. Goaltender prospects rarely pan out as planned.

Also, Kolzig will probably be heavily courted by several other teams.

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05-27-2008, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Ownership wants to spend money to make this team competitive. Now is as good a time as any to start.
Spending money on players is one thing.

Spending money on players who aren't going to be playing for your club isn't something our organization will do.

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05-27-2008, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
But our organization is a position to have among the worst goaltending in the league? And our organziation is in a position to potentially miss the playoffs year after year because of it?

Ask Phoenix how the last 4 years have gone with bad goaltending. Or LA. ETC. Don't **** with the goaltending position. We got LUCKY to have Ellis come in a save our butts last year. It's one thing to have a disappointing, overpaid forward buried on the fourth line. It's another to have an dissapoiting, overpaid goalie guarding your crease for the entire season.

I pray that Poile doesn't set us up for a potential disaster, just because he and ownership don't want to cut their loses on a mistake.
What our organization needs and how our organization works are two different things.

Our hands are tied with Mason's contract.

I've been wanting us to upgrade our third and fourth lines for years, but yet we keep resigning Smithsons, Fiddlers, etc.

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05-27-2008, 04:53 PM
  #23
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What our organization needs and how our organization works are two different things.

Our hands are tied with Mason's contract.

I've been wanting us to upgrade our third and fourth lines for years, but yet we keep resigning Smithsons, Fiddlers, etc.
I guess we'll see how they react. To be fair, we've never really been in a position like this- having a contract that we really need to dump.

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05-27-2008, 04:58 PM
  #24
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I'm with Enoch in that Zidlicky has more positive value on the trade market AND is redundant on this team with Hammer, Suter & Weber who're 1) 2 good puck movers & a point shot in Weber

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05-27-2008, 05:14 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Spending money on players is one thing.

Spending money on players who aren't going to be playing for your club isn't something our organization will do.
You and others keep saying things like this as if you are the actual GM of the team. (Aren't you also the one that won't let the "I bet we draft all d-men with our first 4 picks" thing go?) What is the difference if we are paying 3 million to a minor leaguer or buy out his contract as apposed to paying the same player to make the team worse? It's still a waist of money but at least you could be a better team if you bite the bullet and pay the money.

Which way will it go....I don't know....and neither do you so stop acting like it. This is a whole new ownership situation so sitting back and watching without telling everyone what will happen might be a good idea.

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