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Defense wins championship

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05-29-2008, 11:27 AM
  #1
#57
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Defense wins championship

Look at Detroit, Anaheim.

Would you be willing to sacrifize some of our forwards to upgrade on defense? We already have 4 quality guys (O'Byrne, Komisarek, Markov, Hammer), and a bunch of #7s (Gorges, Bouillon, Streit, Brisebois).

In my mind, if you look at a team like Detroit (Lidstrom, Konwall, Chelios, Stuart, Rafalski, Lebda, Lilja), they can put a great pairing out at any time on the ice. What I mean is, we've seen what a pairing that features Brisebois, Streit or even Bouillon at times last year can do to a playoff team. One small mistake, and boom, you lose two valuable points or a playoff game. When, at any time, you can have at least one of Lidstrom, Kronwall, Chelios or Rafalski on the ice, you know your team won't make many mistake. Also, those guys can effectively play smart all-around hockey (both-ways), which is a must in todays NHL.

Detroit's offense isnt that good when you look at it on paper. What makes it good, is the fact that they have two of the best players in the NHL (Z, Datsyuk), along with an amazing system that's based on puck retrievement (intense forechecking), and getting the puck out of their own zone quickly with an accurate outlet pass.

Markov, Komisarek, Hamrlik are obviously our top three, and could be just as well part of the current Red Wings team. Markov for Kronvall, Komisarek for Chelios, Hamrlik for Stuart. Now, we need to improve our depth. O'Byrne is a good starting point, and Gorges can play as #6 or #7. We need to find at least two more quality guys and get Streit, Bouillon and Brisebois, who all have MAJOR SHORT COMINGS, out of here.

Here's what I propose: Use Higgins, Halak, Bouillon, Lapierre, Grabovski, picks & prospects as trade baits.

Make deals for two of the following: Pitkanen, Seabrook, Zidlicky, Martin, Jackman, Kuba, Bieksa, Salo, Schultz, Ehrhoff, T.Kaberle, Meszaros, etc..

Let's say we deal:

-Halak, Bouillon and a 1st to St.Louis for Jackman.
(Toivonen is gone so they need a backup)

- Higgins & McDonagh to Chicago for Seabrook.
(Logic might be an issue for them, but value wise I think its okay)

THOSE ARE JUST EXEMPLES.

Sign a veteran goalie (say Lalime) and a veteran center (Peca), ice the following lineup:


Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Kostitsyn - Koivu - D'Agostini
Grabovski - Peca - Latendresse
Begin - Chipchura - Kostopoulos
*Lapierre, Dandenault

Markov - Komisarek
Hamrlik - Seabrook
Jackman - O'Byrne
*Gorges, Brisebois

Price
Lalime

MAKE A MARIAN-HOSSA TYPE OF DEAL AT THE DEADLINE FOR SOME HELP UP FRONT.

Now, say Price has a good season (no sophomore slump), where do you see this team finishing in the regular season? Does it advance in the playoffs?

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05-29-2008, 11:30 AM
  #2
YMCMBeaulieu
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Sorry, I stopped reading after you said Gorges was a #7 defence.

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05-29-2008, 11:30 AM
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First off you lose a lot of credibility with me for calling Gorges, Boullion and Streit #7s. Also how do you plan on paying these 6 dmen in the not to distant future?

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05-29-2008, 11:32 AM
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Detroit defends as a team. They don't just rely on their 2 defensemen.

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05-29-2008, 11:33 AM
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Yes they have a great defence and it's known that defence wins championchips but they also have Zetterberg and Datsyuk witch right now we are not even close of having one real Star player

Streit for a #7 D will make around 3 or 3.5 million,not so bad

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05-29-2008, 11:40 AM
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EA sports is in the game

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05-29-2008, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
Sorry, I stopped reading after you said Gorges was a #7 defence.
Me too...

Too bad, because maybe he said something intelligent later on...

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05-29-2008, 11:52 AM
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Why not try instead to bring elite forwards who will score more goals to cover up for the few errors the defensemen could make ?


I prefer winning 4-3 than 1-0.

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05-29-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Yes they have a great defence and it's known that defence wins championchips but they also have Zetterberg and Datsyuk witch right now we are not even close of having one real Star player

Streit for a #7 D will make around 3 or 3.5 million,not so bad
Their Defense are the key to their offense. Yes they have Dats and Zetterberg but their defense is so good at finding the open man that it makes them better on offense. Their defense always make the right play, rarely turns the puck over and their transition game is incredible.

Pittsburgh has more fire power than Detroit on offense but on defense there is no comparaison. When you always have the puck you can beat anyone. This is why i agree with the OP, defense does win championships.

Its time to upgrade our defense. Hammer was a good start, but now its time to get rid of Bouillon and Brisebois and give the spot to better players. Instead of giving 6 mil to Hossa, id give it to a guy like Campbell instead.

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05-29-2008, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
Their Defense are the key to their offense. Yes they have Dats and Zetterberg but their defense is so good at finding the open man that it makes them better on offense. Their defense always make the right play, rarely turns the puck over and their transition game is incredible.

Pittsburgh has more fire power than Detroit on offense but on defense there is no comparaison. When you always have the puck you can beat anyone. This is why i agree with the OP, defense does win championships.

Its time to upgrade our defense. Hammer was a good start, but now its time to get rid of Bouillon and Brisebois and give the spot to better players. Instead of giving 6 mil to Hossa, id give it to a guy like Campbell instead.
And thank God your not our GM.What the hell did Campbell do in the last couple of years that impressed you that much.Last I saw he cost his team the game and exit in the last 2 seasons on a bad play.Last year the Wings got Rafalski,this year it's not Campbell or Redden that will make a difference a la Rafalski .The year before the Ducks got Pronger to play with Niedermayer.Pronger and Rafalski are way better then Campbell

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05-29-2008, 12:18 PM
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And what about Carolina? They won the Cup and their top defender was who, Glen Wesley?

It's not about the 2 defencemen it's about the 5 players as a unit.

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05-29-2008, 12:32 PM
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It's not about the 2 defencemen it's about the 5 players as a unit.
-Sean



Amen !!

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05-29-2008, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
And thank God your not our GM.What the hell did Campbell do in the last couple of years that impressed you that much.Last I saw he cost his team the game and exit in the last 2 seasons on a bad play.Last year the Wings got Rafalski,this year it's not Campbell or Redden that will make a difference a la Rafalski .The year before the Ducks got Pronger to play with Niedermayer.Pronger and Rafalski are way better then Campbell
It was an example to say that money should be spent on Defense rather than offense. By the way, have you noticed how Campbell completely improved San Jose's transition game? They went on a big winning streak right after they acquired him and he had a lot to do with it. He whould fit perfectly in our system. If you want to blame him for one mistake thats your call but he would be on my team in a second if i had the choice.

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05-29-2008, 12:41 PM
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Just give me the BPA. That forward lineup is too weak to do any damage in the playoffs or regular season. What this team needs is a top-6 player, a number three centre, and a top-4 d.

Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Latandresse-Koivu-Hossa
Kostitsyn-Kelly-Higgins (Great third line that can shut down another teams top line, and can score as well)
Begin-Chipchura-Lapierre
Kostopolous

Markov-Komisarek
Liles-Hamrlik
O'Byrne-Georges
Bouillon

This lineup would be a serious contender for the Cup.

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05-29-2008, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
Just give me the BPA. That forward lineup is too weak to do any damage in the playoffs or regular season. What this team needs is a top-6 player, a number three centre, and a top-4 d.

Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Latandresse-Koivu-Hossa
Kostitsyn-Kelly-Higgins (Great third line that can shut down another teams top line, and can score as well)
Begin-Chipchura-Lapierre
Kostopolous

Markov-Komisarek
Liles-Hamrlik
O'Byrne-Georges
Bouillon

This lineup would be a serious contender for the Cup.
Isn't Vermette a free agent?I prefer him over Kelly

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05-29-2008, 02:20 PM
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Good lord no!

Those trades are awful. Jackman's value is nowhere near that.

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05-29-2008, 02:22 PM
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We badly need more two-way puck movers on D. Been saying it for over a decade now. Can't have a transition game without it, you have to sit back. And we aren't good at that either.

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05-29-2008, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
It was an example to say that money should be spent on Defense rather than offense. By the way, have you noticed how Campbell completely improved San Jose's transition game? They went on a big winning streak right after they acquired him and he had a lot to do with it. He whould fit perfectly in our system. If you want to blame him for one mistake thats your call but he would be on my team in a second if i had the choice.

We don't need Campbell with Markov on our team.They are both very similar players.Like I said if we are going to invest and I totally agree that the D is more important then the offence,we need an elite defenceman.

With that said we still need an elite forward and a goal scorer and this year Hossa would be perfect on our team

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05-29-2008, 02:27 PM
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I think that Mtl has a very good top 3. One of the 3 should still get better and Markov can probably become a bit more consistent. Gorges came a long way, O'b showed signs but is still a work in progress and Bouillon is Bouillon, he's a coaching challenge in that when he's going well, take advantage and when he's not, recognize it.

When we make these proposals that radically change the team for a perceived need, you don't consider growth. Gorges and O'B are guys that haven't hit their ceiling.

Really the only move I see on defense is whether you sign Streit, and if you don't, do you look for a Streit style d man, or a stay at home more physical type. Picture a choice between Streit or Commodore in terms of style. That's 1 job.

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05-29-2008, 02:28 PM
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NHL 08 sure looks like an awesome game!!

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05-29-2008, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Me too...

Too bad, because maybe he said something intelligent later on...
Any body remember the last 7 games of the season, Gorges playing 20+ minutes on 1st pairing with Markov against best enemy lines...

Anyway, you only can play 2 d-man at the time...
Markov-Komisarek: 25 minutes
Hamrlik-Gorges: 20 minutes
Bouillon-O'Byrne: 15 minutes

Wow, what a defence we have...

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Old
05-29-2008, 02:48 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by #57 View Post
Look at Detroit, Anaheim.

Would you be willing to sacrifize some of our forwards to upgrade on defense? We already have 4 quality guys (O'Byrne, Komisarek, Markov, Hammer), and a bunch of #7s (Gorges, Bouillon, Streit, Brisebois).

In my mind, if you look at a team like Detroit (Lidstrom, Konwall, Chelios, Stuart, Rafalski, Lebda, Lilja), they can put a great pairing out at any time on the ice. What I mean is, we've seen what a pairing that features Brisebois, Streit or even Bouillon at times last year can do to a playoff team. One small mistake, and boom, you lose two valuable points or a playoff game. When, at any time, you can have at least one of Lidstrom, Kronwall, Chelios or Rafalski on the ice, you know your team won't make many mistake. Also, those guys can effectively play smart all-around hockey (both-ways), which is a must in todays NHL.

Detroit's offense isnt that good when you look at it on paper. What makes it good, is the fact that they have two of the best players in the NHL (Z, Datsyuk), along with an amazing system that's based on puck retrievement (intense forechecking), and getting the puck out of their own zone quickly with an accurate outlet pass.

Markov, Komisarek, Hamrlik are obviously our top three, and could be just as well part of the current Red Wings team. Markov for Kronvall, Komisarek for Chelios, Hamrlik for Stuart. Now, we need to improve our depth. O'Byrne is a good starting point, and Gorges can play as #6 or #7. We need to find at least two more quality guys and get Streit, Bouillon and Brisebois, who all have MAJOR SHORT COMINGS, out of here.

Here's what I propose: Use Higgins, Halak, Bouillon, Lapierre, Grabovski, picks & prospects as trade baits.

Make deals for two of the following: Pitkanen, Seabrook, Zidlicky, Martin, Jackman, Kuba, Bieksa, Salo, Schultz, Ehrhoff, T.Kaberle, Meszaros, etc..

Let's say we deal:

-Halak, Bouillon and a 1st to St.Louis for Jackman.
(Toivonen is gone so they need a backup)

- Higgins & McDonagh to Chicago for Seabrook.
(Logic might be an issue for them, but value wise I think its okay)

THOSE ARE JUST EXEMPLES.

Sign a veteran goalie (say Lalime) and a veteran center (Peca), ice the following lineup:


Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Kostitsyn - Koivu - D'Agostini
Grabovski - Peca - Latendresse
Begin - Chipchura - Kostopoulos
*Lapierre, Dandenault

Markov - Komisarek
Hamrlik - Seabrook
Jackman - O'Byrne
*Gorges, Brisebois

Price
Lalime

MAKE A MARIAN-HOSSA TYPE OF DEAL AT THE DEADLINE FOR SOME HELP UP FRONT.

Now, say Price has a good season (no sophomore slump), where do you see this team finishing in the regular season? Does it advance in the playoffs?
I give you a F--

Stuart is a FA this year and if I'm not mistaken, Vermette is a RFA

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05-29-2008, 03:17 PM
  #23
YMCMBeaulieu
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And what about Carolina? They won the Cup and their top defender was who, Glen Wesley?

It's not about the 2 defencemen it's about the 5 players as a unit.
Exactly, also i'd take our day over Pittsburgh's any day of the week and they are in the finals and only one game behind Detroit.

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05-29-2008, 03:59 PM
  #24
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D'Agostini on the 2nd line? Yeah, that just screams contender.

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05-29-2008, 04:45 PM
  #25
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by HallyHabsFan21 View Post
Exactly, also i'd take our day over Pittsburgh's any day of the week and they are in the finals and only one game behind Detroit.
Carolina won under the old clutch-and-grab rules and Pittsburgh's talent up front and grit is slightly better than ours, no?

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