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Lecavalier to Montreal. Trade or free agency?

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Old
05-30-2008, 02:12 PM
  #76
Fido22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
To respond:

That only is attractive if you are a 4th line player, where there is little expectations besides skating hard and doing post game interviews. A star player, even a so-so star with a bad game gets poo'd on. Ask Roy, Theo, Brisebois....

As for being happy to do so... think of all the so-so players like Theo, Ribs, Brisebois, and others who were happy to leave after unrealistic expectations were heaped on them.

As for hiddens agendas and politics, I hope you are not talking about me. I do not think I am THAT guy. If you think so, just say it.
Theo, Ribs and Brisebois wanted to leave?

That's news to me.

The first two, at least, seemed to enjoy beeing Habs a little too much even.

No what I'm saying doesn't apply to 4tyh liners. I'm saying players get attached to their teams and cities they have lived in for years. Vinny seems to like Tampa. It's legit. Markov seems to like Montreal. Good for us. Ovy seems loyal to the Caps. etc. I don't think french players run away or stay away from Montreal more than anyone else. Sure they'll get booed here, but the upside is also there (fame, fortune.....imagine the endorsement deals Vinny would have here).

I don't see a strong correlation here, hence my politics comment. I think people are "reading in" their political preferences to their analysis of the situation.

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05-30-2008, 02:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
Theo, Ribs and Brisebois wanted to leave? That's news to me.

The first two, at least, seemed to enjoy beeing Habs a little too much even.

No what I'm saying doesn't apply to 4tyh liners. I'm saying players get attached to their teams and cities they have lived in for years. Vinny seems to like Tampa. It's legit. Markov seems to like Montreal. Good for us. Ovy seems loyal to the Caps. etc. I don't think french players run away or stay away from Montreal more than anyone else. Sure they'll get booed here, but the upside is also there (fame, fortune.....imagine the endorsement deals Vinny would have here).

I don't see a strong correlation here, hence my politics comment. I think people are "reading in" their political preferences to their analysis of the situation.
Joe can answer for himself but I won't let that stop me. It isn't wanting to leave, but you often sense a 'relief' when they do. If you're working on a project at work and it's more intense than what you're used to, and it's the kind that's on your mind day and night, you kind of enjoy it, but when it's over, you don't miss it.


When I hear ufa names, I roll my eyes when I see the ideas here because I try and gauge what a player would want. When I see a francophone's name, I think, hmm, maybe there's a chance. So, yeah, if VL was unrestricted, my confidence would be greater than a Rolston who I'd be surprised if he considered Mtl.

Still, I've heard enough comments from players, local players who say the right things but relish the anonymity of playing elsewhere.

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05-30-2008, 02:26 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Joe can answer for himself but I won't let that stop me. It isn't wanting to leave, but you often sense a 'relief' when they do. If you're working on a project at work and it's more intense than what you're used to, and it's the kind that's on your mind day and night, you kind of enjoy it, but when it's over, you don't miss it.


When I hear ufa names, I roll my eyes when I see the ideas here because I try and gauge what a player would want. When I see a francophone's name, I think, hmm, maybe there's a chance. So, yeah, if VL was unrestricted, my confidence would be greater than a Rolston who I'd be surprised if he considered Mtl.

Still, I've heard enough comments from players, local players who say the right things but relish the anonymity of playing elsewhere.
I agree that Mtl is more intense than most other NHL cities, I don't think that has the practical effect of keeping french players away more than other players (maybe on individual cases, but not overall).

Rivet is not french canadian, he seemed as relieved as anyone I can remember from being traded.

Out of the UFAs we have signed, some are french canadians, some are not. Brière turned us down, Ryan Smith turned us down.

I don't see strong correlation that french players are either drawn here or drawn away from here more than non french players.

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05-30-2008, 02:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
I agree that Mtl is more intense than most other NHL cities, I don't think that has the practical effect of keeping french players away more than other players (maybe on individual cases, but not overall).

Rivet is not french canadian, he seemed as relieved as anyone I can remember from being traded.

Out of the UFAs we have signed, some are french canadians, some are not. Brière turned us down, Ryan Smith turned us down.

I don't see strong correlation that french players are either drawn here or drawn away from here more than non french players.
Myabe it isn't on a bell curve, and it isn't language related, it seems so possibly due to our thinking that they 'should' consider MTl their mecca. True though, we get turned down by all races and creeds. Kind of like my single days.

I don't think Rivet was necessarily more relieved, more a matter of what got into print.

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05-30-2008, 02:51 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
it isn't language related, it seems so possibly due to our thinking that they 'should' consider MTl their mecca.
That's what I think. We simply just notice them more and our brains therefore thinks it sees a pattern.

Personnally, I think the attraction for Quebec players to play for the Habs is greatest prior to being drafted....after that they get "into" their team and just become NHL players. Professionals.

Their agents sure like using us though.

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05-30-2008, 02:51 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Geezus, we know it'd be good to have this guy on the team for a myriad of reasons. [I have no idea what myriad means].
Good God, Mcphee, I'm nearly as old as you and I know they had books when we were in kindergarden.

Myriad a little lamb by Goose, Mother.

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05-30-2008, 03:00 PM
  #82
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By a lot imo, Lecavalier is a top 10 player in the league something we didnt get a sniff at since Patrick Roy. Plus both Kovalev and Koivu, while pretty good, are replaceable.(Particularly Koivu at this point.)
Particularly Koivu? You missed the playoffs?
Quote:
And I'm kinda bored by the "conclusion" about Tampa's spending habits. They didnt spent anything close to the cap(and with some bottom quality scouting), that's why it didnt work out for them, not because the top 3 was paid too much.
A $10M contract factors into the team constitution, inevitably. But the bottom line is there is still a lot of time left to see what transpires. If the Habs brass is serious about adding a big name guy this summer, then that could well play into any future big ticket additions as well. We can probably have a hunch that we have 3 pretty big tickets on D, and our younger RFA types certainly aren't going to get any cheaper either. Nor Price once his entry level is done. The Koivu/Kovalev vs. Lecavalier scenario... well, let's see how they play next year for starters, anyway. I'd take the 2007/08 duo of Koivu/Kovalev over Lecavalier, no hesitation.

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05-30-2008, 03:02 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Fido22 View Post
I agree that Mtl is more intense than most other NHL cities, I don't think that has the practical effect of keeping french players away more than other players (maybe on individual cases, but not overall).

Rivet is not french canadian, he seemed as relieved as anyone I can remember from being traded.

Out of the UFAs we have signed, some are french canadians, some are not. Brière turned us down, Ryan Smith turned us down.

I don't see strong correlation that french players are either drawn here or drawn away from here more than non french players.
P.S. Yes, mcphee echo'd my thought in that "It isn't wanting to leave, but you often sense a 'relief' when they do"

Rivet was relieved, but he (like Brisebois) was mis-cast in a role because of lack of depth. He was relieved to be in a situation within his means. I guess.

As for the UFA's.... since we have not really signed any real big time free as the wind UFA's, they are neither French or other.

As for the correlation... Briere is the key. We can speculate why he did not come here. The team, his role, English school for his kids, taxes, Gagne/Biron, media/fan pressure.... All we know is the result, he was hung in the press, and boo'd on the ice. Read into that what you will. Other players will read into it too.

As well, how many French players are considered stars nowadays? Less then in yesteryear. Tanguay, Brodour, Gagne, Briere, Lacavlier, St. Louis.... which of those have been available on the open market and not just after their team won a cup?

So, if there are not many, it is hard to say if there is a strong correlation of them coming or staying away.

I just know that it is less attractive then some people say it is.

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Old
05-31-2008, 01:22 AM
  #84
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Very generally speaking

The best thing that could happen to a hockey player is to be a hero in mtl
The worst thing that could happen to a hockey player is to be a zero in mtl

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Old
05-31-2008, 01:24 AM
  #85
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Please why do mods let threads like this stay open..

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05-31-2008, 02:52 AM
  #86
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I find this thread offensive and a little racist. Jean Beliveau would be ashamed.

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05-31-2008, 08:16 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Particularly Koivu? You missed the playoffs?
I didn't, he showed heart.(Like always) He's a good veteran, but we are talking about the 2009-2010 season arent we? (That's where I think he will be easily replaced by any of the young lings, if he doesnt retire...)

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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'd take the 2007/08 duo of Koivu/Kovalev over Lecavalier, no hesitation.
There is no duo of 60-70 pts players of 34 + years old, I would rather have than a gamebreaker 100 pts player in his prime, it's not even close for me. You can find 60 pts players, you can't find gamebreakers. (50 goals scorer)

How I see the lineup:

Paccioretty(850k+bonus) - Lecavalier(11m) - Sergei Kostitsyn(850k+bonus)
Higgins(3.5-4.5m) - Pleckanec(4.50-5.5m) - Andrei Kostitsyn(3.5-4.5m)
Latendresse(1m) - Chipchura(850k+bonus) - Lapierre(1m)
Stewart(500k) - White(750k) - Kostopoulos(About 1m)
Extra: Maxwell, Fortier, Wyman, D'Agostini + 2008 draft + 2009 draft
Total: 31.25m(around)

Markov(5.75m) - Komisarek(4.5m)
Hamrlik(5.5m) - Gorges (1.5m)
Valentenko(1m) - Obyrne(1.5m)
Extra: Carle Minor league: Mcdonagh, Subban, Fischer, Weber + 2008 draft + 2009 draft
Total: 20.75m(around)

Price(3m(with bonus))
Halak(1.5m)
Total : 4.5m

Big Total 56.5m/Cap 63m
Then Chipchura/Price/SK to sign on a 70m? cap?

I made this lineup ultra conservative, without spending for any UFAs pluggers(we will imo), just to show that the salary situation isnt even an issue with such a good young team. The cap for 09-10 might be close to 63m. Thing is we still have plenty of good young and cheap players(this bottom 6 shouldnt cost a lot) to go into RFA season with confidence. Gainey should sign Komo and Plekanec this summer imo, 7 years/32m each or something close to that.


Last edited by SOLR: 05-31-2008 at 08:55 AM.
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Old
05-31-2008, 08:42 AM
  #88
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I'm all for french-canadians on the Habs...if they're the BPA in either the draft or UFA.
If not, I'll take the BPA.

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05-31-2008, 09:29 AM
  #89
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I'd sign a Mongolian Transvestite who'll put up 100 points for the Habs.

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Old
05-31-2008, 11:10 AM
  #90
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e(12) reporting Lecavalier to sign huge extension contract in Tampa to keep him a Blot until he's done

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05-31-2008, 11:12 AM
  #91
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I'd sign a Mongolian Transvestite who'll put up 100 points for the Habs.
Hey, lets leave my family out of this.

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Old
05-31-2008, 11:18 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
I know most of you will immediately say, not another Vinny thread.

But this is diferrent. Something has got to give this time.

This is the guy that can lead us to the promised land once again.

We NEED a French Canadian superstar in Montreal again.

Does Gainey have any way of tapping-up his agent to see if the interest is there.

I say free agency is the only possible way at this point. Feaster would obviously ask for the moon in return and we would be no further ahead than we are today.

How about a 12 year 120 million dollar contract offer.

Gainey has to make it happen and must not take no for an answer. We need to show Vinny that we're building a championship calibre team and that he will be the focal point and team captain.

Since Guy Lafleur we have been waiting. How much longer are we expected to wait.
Another 5, 10, 20, 30 years for another local superstar.

Come on Bob make it happen this summer.

Vinny, the time has come for you to come back to your hometown and claim your rightful place with La Sainte-Flanelle.
Vinny will NEVER play for the Habs !

He is the marquee player in TB. he loves the place. He loves the sun. He loves the smaller taxes rates.

TB management gonna give him the max money for the next 10 years.

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Old
05-31-2008, 12:16 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
I know most of you will immediately say, not another Vinny thread.

But this is diferrent. Something has got to give this time.

This is the guy that can lead us to the promised land once again.

We NEED a French Canadian superstar in Montreal again.

Does Gainey have any way of tapping-up his agent to see if the interest is there.

I say free agency is the only possible way at this point. Feaster would obviously ask for the moon in return and we would be no further ahead than we are today.

How about a 12 year 120 million dollar contract offer.

Gainey has to make it happen and must not take no for an answer. We need to show Vinny that we're building a championship calibre team and that he will be the focal point and team captain.

Since Guy Lafleur we have been waiting. How much longer are we expected to wait.
Another 5, 10, 20, 30 years for another local superstar.

Come on Bob make it happen this summer.

Vinny, the time has come for you to come back to your hometown and claim your rightful place with La Sainte-Flanelle.
Yeah Montreal needs the French Superstar to win a Cup, just look at the difference local Detroit boys Zetterberg, Franzen and Datsyuk are doing in Detroit along with fellow hometown Pittsburgh kids Crosby, Hossa and Malkin are doing!



Vinnie as a Englishman, Swede, Russian or any nationality would help the Habs....but that being said doesn't mean he would be a savour and lead us to the promise land just because he is a Quebecer.

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05-31-2008, 02:58 PM
  #94
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Hey, lets leave my family out of this.
My Dad has always kind of mixed Mongolian and Mongoloid. He's a smart man, just tends to go a little Archie Bunker at times. Lucky there isn't anyone in his family who would ever pick up on these errors.

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05-31-2008, 03:07 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Yeah Montreal needs the French Superstar to win a Cup, just look at the difference local Detroit boys Zetterberg, Franzen and Datsyuk are doing in Detroit along with fellow hometown Pittsburgh kids Crosby, Hossa and Malkin are doing!



Vinnie as a Englishman, Swede, Russian or any nationality would help the Habs....but that being said doesn't mean he would be a savour and lead us to the promise land just because he is a Quebecer.
Re-Hab back on p1, this is where I was saying that it gets too black n white. Of course it would be a wonderful thing for a local star to be in Mtl , a guy who could lead the franchise and speak to the fan base in the language of the majority, [note I say majority, not the language of the fan base itself].

It would be a good thing. I don't see that this is arguable. The attractiveness of a guy like VL is also pretty easy to jump on board with. The assumption, true or not is that he might give the city more consideration that Joe High Wheat from Saskatoon. Combine the 2 and the rumours and the excitmenet starts.

I have no problem with it, and I can't see how anyone does. It's a mistake to think that most who would support a signing like this would favour being exclsuionary to any player whose name ends in ov or inenen.

I was snotty with the op because it kind of annoyed me that it seemed like, 'hey I have a new idea', or that the team's management owed us a linguistically engineered lineup.

So, yeah, I'd love to see them go after VL .

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05-31-2008, 03:27 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
I know most of you will immediately say, not another Vinny thread.

But this is diferrent. Something has got to give this time.
This is not different. This is exactly the same.

My answer remains the same.

Not another Vinny thread.

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05-31-2008, 03:37 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
P.S. Yes, mcphee echo'd my thought in that "It isn't wanting to leave, but you often sense a 'relief' when they do"

Rivet was relieved, but he (like Brisebois) was mis-cast in a role because of lack of depth. He was relieved to be in a situation within his means. I guess.

As for the UFA's.... since we have not really signed any real big time free as the wind UFA's, they are neither French or other.

As for the correlation... Briere is the key. We can speculate why he did not come here. The team, his role, English school for his kids, taxes, Gagne/Biron, media/fan pressure.... All we know is the result, he was hung in the press, and boo'd on the ice. Read into that what you will. Other players will read into it too.

As well, how many French players are considered stars nowadays? Less then in yesteryear. Tanguay, Brodour, Gagne, Briere, Lacavlier, St. Louis.... which of those have been available on the open market and not just after their team won a cup?

So, if there are not many, it is hard to say if there is a strong correlation of them coming or staying away.

I just know that it is less attractive then some people say it is.
Rivet was relieved??...Rivet was pissed you mean. Just like Ribs was (hence his ''im happy habs didnt make POs'' comment last year)

Brisebois was also sad to have left, or else he would have never agreed to come back here especially with his history.

Montreal is just as appealing as any other city, it's all the same. Who in their right mind as an athlete doesn't want to be part of the most successful organization of its respective sport???? It makes zero sense.

Each players evaluate their situation and then decide for ''x'' reasons to choose a certain city.
But the main reason why we haven't signed that many good UFAs is simply because of how bad the team was for the last decade.

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Old
05-31-2008, 05:11 PM
  #98
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Hossa

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06-01-2008, 11:38 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
While I'm fully cogniant of the value of homegrown product in MTl, the fan base didn't seem to have any problems identifying with Michael Ryder while he was scoring nor either of the Kostitsyn brothers. Don't demean the fan base by suggesting what they need to identify with. They'd enjoy and be thrilled with Vinny L. in Mtl but they have no problem rioting in the streets with the current team. They want success ahead of all else. Cups are what they identify with.
HAY QUIT MAKIN SENSE.

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Old
06-01-2008, 05:14 PM
  #100
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Sorry guys, but it's not looking bright at all.

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/252858.html

Quote:
Et Hughes a finalement répété ce que tout le monde sait déjà : « Vincent veut demeurer à Tampa. »

And Hughes (Vinny's agent) ended the interview by repeating what everybody already knows "Vincent wants to stay in Tampa Bay."
Both owners want to sign Vinny on long-term, they even mentionned "until the end of his career" type of deal.

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