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My Ideal 2008-2009 Lineup

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Old
05-30-2008, 05:39 PM
  #476
Lion Hound
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
If we don't re-sign Avery it will go down as one of the biggest blunders we have made post lockout. Halfway through next season we will all be on here yelling about this team needing someone who is tough, agitates and can play at a reasonably high level. We now have that player, we should not let him get away. Dane Byers isn't gonna replace Avery, neither is Matt Cooke. Most players of his ilk play that way because they lack skill and are trying to compensate, Avery actually has skill. Avery is one of the few guys who have played on this team in recent memory that brings the fight to the other team. He doesn't wait and react. He needs to be brought back and Sather's casual approach to the negotiations with him is starting to worry me.
I totally agree. Very, VERY bad mistake if they don't get him re-signed. His impact to this club is greater than just about any player I can remember over the past 10 seasons. Cept for maybe Jagr. But what you said about him... "brings the fight to the other team" I couldn't agree more. He is that guy, and when he wasn't here, this club totally lacked charachter. Would be a terrible mistake not bringing him back, and I could only imagine how the garden would react if he wasn't.

Onto Sundin...Personally I scoffed at the idea of him coming to NY. Why in gods name would they bring in another center...especially one who is what 35 years old? But in thinking it through, maybe the idea is not to move Sundin to the wing, or Drury to the wing...But Dubinsky to the wing? I don't think that would be the worst idea in the world. He is great along the wall. He is a big body, he plays physical. He and Jagr already cycle well. Maybe the idea of having the three big bodies on the top line is what the organization is thinking. If these rumors are indeed true. Could be trouble for defences to handle these three. But, of course...as someone earlier mentioned there is no guarantee Sundin will have chemistry with them, and of course there is also no guarantee that Dubinsky could move to the LW position.

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05-30-2008, 05:54 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
most likely the cap will be going up....although we dont know, it could go down like ou said, however, a forward corps of what you mentioned isnt going to fill up the cap....there is no way...look at those players...you think they will make it to the 56 million?.......i understand many of them will get raises, however they will get those no matter what, havig jagr and sundin on the team doesnt make that happen any sooner or later than it wouldve happened anyways.....the rangers are going to have all the depth coming from within and some top-end players...the only thing they need to grap is ONE top-end winger and maybe a defenseman with some snarl who can shut-people down, and they will have the cap space to do so.....there are always trades and there is always the option, if it doesnt work to trade jagr and sundin away at the deadline as both would be hot commodities....

i totally understand what you are saying by players needing raises and how with that 12 million, or so coming off the books while about half of that would probably be going to raises, however that leaves 6 million or so to put towards a player and there will be other cheap contracts coming up from the ahl as depth players....that is one great thing about the rangers organization right now.....they have a lot of depth that they can bring up every year to be cheap young talent to offset going out and signing a high-priced free agent or trading for high-end talent....i just feel this is the best way to go especially reading now that rolston is most likely staying in minnesota, there is NO forward out there i want to see on this team who is an UFA...and there are very few defenseman out there who i would like to see on this team:
liles(3 or under)
orpik(3 or under)
smith(2-2.5)
Like I said to Rags in this post here: #465. Those RFA's are players we would almost certainly want to keep. They are by far our best prospects and as you can see from the numbers I posted, it's well over half of the space being freed by Jagr and Sundin, in fact it's almost all of the space being freed.

Also as I said before, I think any changes of the offense will come via trade, and the FA signings will be for the defense.

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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
That's the thing who knows? What about 1 signing for 1 year and the other for 2. That would be interesting. Could it happen... stay tuned.
I'm not saying its impossible. But Jagr and Sundin have both said they have 4 more years of hockey in them. I highly doubt they'd want to play one year and then go through the hassle of UFA-dom again. And in Sundins case, possibly pick up and move again.


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true. But i'm not enamored w/ anybody on defense either besides liles. I really like the idea of him and Staal. Orpik I also like but I'm afraid of overpaying for a 3rd pairing guy.

I think that this is going to happen no matter what w/in the next two years. At least it will keep pressure off of them until the are more able to handle it.
I like Liles as well, but he's not really a shutdown type of defensemen. More often than not your #1 pairing is out against the top lines of opposing squads. Two-way d-men are hard to come by, but they're a necessity on most cup-contenders. The glaring option out there is Redden. He won't be cheap, but locking him up for 5 years at 25-30 mil is a good decision. He's a puck mover and is at least capable of battling top lines. He can also provide some leadership for the other blue liners. I could definitely see Staal becoming a mirror image of Redden as he develops.

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I am a Mets fan, and I see what trading away 3 players for 1 can do. In fact that was the old way of Ranger thinking as well. Trade young players and picks for 1 player. it doesn't work well. in fact if you look at teams that are winning now in all sports, its the teams who build from w/in and just add that one or two veterans to put them over the top. Unless we are getting an uberstar like Crosby, Ovy, Lecalvalier, Phaneuf than I would avoid these lopsided trades of 2 bluechip prospects and a high pick. Plus again we need to keep some of these youngins to have cheap good talent.
I hear ya man, but we don't have the guys to develop that other teams have. The Pens are made up of top-10 picks. The Wings draft way better than we ever could. I'm not saying trade away the farm for veterans, but I don't think signing guys on their way out is the right solution either.

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05-30-2008, 06:09 PM
  #478
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Seems like the people who want Sundin are signing him just to sign someone. It's as if you're saying "well, we can't get the defensemen we really need on the UFA market, so lets spend our leftover cap money on Sundin cause maybe he'll help us score." So what happens when midway through the summer, or over the next two seasons (assuming we sign Sundin for 2 years) the defenseman we need becomes available via trade... maybe because a team needs to dump salary? Since we've backed ourselves up against the cap getting what would be nice to have (Sundin) because we couldn't get what we need to have (defense), we'll once again be left without wiggle room to make a move like this if it becomes available.

This team's problems begin and end on defense. Get a corps of competent defenseman who can move the puck out of their zone and up ice without all three forwards collapsing deep into their zone to help, and the offense will improve. That's not to say we couldn't use more help on wing, but Sundin doesn't provide that, and he'll cost more than we should be paying ANY new forward right now.

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05-30-2008, 06:12 PM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Seems like the people who want Sundin are signing him just to sign someone. It's as if you're saying "well, we can't get the defensemen we really need on the UFA market, so lets spend our leftover cap money on Sundin cause maybe he'll help us score." So what happens when midway through the summer, or over the next two seasons (assuming we sign Sundin for 2 years) the defenseman we need becomes available via trade... maybe because a team needs to dump salary? Since we've backed ourselves up against the cap getting what would be nice to have (Sundin) because we couldn't get what we need to have (defense), we'll once again be left without wiggle room to make a move like this if it becomes available.

This team's problems begin and end on defense. Get a corps of competent defenseman who can move the puck out of their zone and up ice without all three forwards collapsing deep into their zone to help, and the offense will improve. That's not to say we couldn't use more help on wing, but Sundin doesn't provide that, and he'll cost more than we should be paying ANY new forward right now.
Terrific post. I feel the same way. You said it better than I have been trying to.

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05-30-2008, 06:23 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Seems like the people who want Sundin are signing him just to sign someone. It's as if you're saying "well, we can't get the defensemen we really need on the UFA market, so lets spend our leftover cap money on Sundin cause maybe he'll help us score." So what happens when midway through the summer, or over the next two seasons (assuming we sign Sundin for 2 years) the defenseman we need becomes available via trade... maybe because a team needs to dump salary? Since we've backed ourselves up against the cap getting what would be nice to have (Sundin) because we couldn't get what we need to have (defense), we'll once again be left without wiggle room to make a move like this if it becomes available.

This team's problems begin and end on defense. Get a corps of competent defenseman who can move the puck out of their zone and up ice without all three forwards collapsing deep into their zone to help, and the offense will improve. That's not to say we couldn't use more help on wing, but Sundin doesn't provide that, and he'll cost more than we should be paying ANY new forward right now.
its not as easy to say go get those guys. how much money do we have? how many holes do we have in out forward lines as of right now? its a pretty tight perdicament. right now weve got the center position taken care of on the top 2 lines, and nothing else. we need to replace/resign jagr, straka, shanny, and dawes. not to mention all the holes on the D with Malik, Mara, and Rozsival all possibly leaving.

those are huge holes all around. the trick is to replace as many of them with competent and inexpensive people. do you trust sather to do that?

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05-30-2008, 06:23 PM
  #481
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Sundin is exactly the kind of player we need to be staying away from.

Expensive.

Old.

On his way out.

I could care less that he scored 30 goals this year.

He is at the end of his career and will cost way too much.

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05-30-2008, 06:57 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Sundin is exactly the kind of player we need to be staying away from.

Expensive.

Old.

On his way out.

I could care less that he scored 30 goals this year.

He is at the end of his career and will cost way too much.
thats pretty amazing considering the hack linemates he played with.

30 goals is 30 goals, thats a lot of production. Nobody on our team did that and we have a much better D than Toronto.

With Shanny and Strakas probable exits we're going to need to some O, and considering our offense was pretty putrid this season, we need help.

Im not saying he's the missing piece at all, but I'm very confident he'd help the team.

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Old
05-30-2008, 08:35 PM
  #483
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all i was pointing out is that out of every one of the UFA forwards, he is the best option....im excited over ANY UFA this year and the thing tat scares me is that sather NEEDS to sign some to fill some pretty big holes(#1/2 defenseman, 1st line wing, 2nd line wing, and 4/5/6 defenseman and that is if potter is ready) and that in this market, the best options would most likely be one of the following:
malone at 4-5 million(way overpayment)
ryder at 3.5-4.5 million(way overpayment)
huselius at 4-5 million(way overpayment)
liles at 3+(overpayment for a 4-6 defenseman)
orpik at 3-5 million(overpayment for a 3-5 defenseman)
redden at 6-7 million(overpayment for a 2-3)
campbell at 7-8(overpayment for a pp specialist)


basically the problem with everyone on that list is that they are all one dimensional and overpaid....there are no good overall players this year like gomez and drury....and they need to fill HUGE holes that they cant fill now, but they might be able to in a couple years....which scares me even more because all of those players will want 4 or more years

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05-30-2008, 08:51 PM
  #484
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Huselius and Ryder stink.

Malone is overrated.

Give me Rolston anyday. No question.

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05-30-2008, 09:00 PM
  #485
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We dont really need to sign any UFA fowards like malone, ryder, huselius. Lets focus on what we lacked last season which was a powerplay specialist and a physical hitter on defense. Like said, the ufa crop for this offseason is not that appealing to us. The next years on we can still have some cap room and spend it on a top winger (ex: Gaborik ufa next offseason or Kovalchuk the year after that and adress what we lack each year).

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05-30-2008, 09:15 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Huselius and Ryder stink.

Malone is overrated.

Give me Rolston anyday. No question.
there was an article that said he was most likely going to resign in minnesota....he would be the one UFA winger i would want

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05-30-2008, 09:21 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by rangernick23 View Post
We dont really need to sign any UFA fowards like malone, ryder, huselius. Lets focus on what we lacked last season which was a powerplay specialist and a physical hitter on defense. Like said, the ufa crop for this offseason is not that appealing to us. The next years on we can still have some cap room and spend it on a top winger (ex: Gaborik ufa next offseason or Kovalchuk the year after that and adress what we lack each year).
the problem is that the reason the defense looked bad at some times during the season was because the forwards couldnt score...so the issues are linked...but i agree that the rangers need a pp qb and a heavy hitter...and i would love to get orpik if he would come over for 3-3.5 but no more than that....i think a pairing of him and girardi would be dynamite

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Old
05-30-2008, 11:11 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Seems like the people who want Sundin are signing him just to sign someone. It's as if you're saying "well, we can't get the defensemen we really need on the UFA market, so lets spend our leftover cap money on Sundin cause maybe he'll help us score." So what happens when midway through the summer, or over the next two seasons (assuming we sign Sundin for 2 years) the defenseman we need becomes available via trade... maybe because a team needs to dump salary? Since we've backed ourselves up against the cap getting what would be nice to have (Sundin) because we couldn't get what we need to have (defense), we'll once again be left without wiggle room to make a move like this if it becomes available.

This team's problems begin and end on defense. Get a corps of competent defenseman who can move the puck out of their zone and up ice without all three forwards collapsing deep into their zone to help, and the offense will improve. That's not to say we couldn't use more help on wing, but Sundin doesn't provide that, and he'll cost more than we should be paying ANY new forward right now.
I agree. I think our defense definitely needs the most work. Apart from that, securing a winger for Gomez is the only other pressing need in my opinion.

I still like Redden as a partner for Staal. I think the two are cut from the same mold and Staal could actually turn out to be better defensively while putting up slightly less impressive offensive numbers. I think a great option for the 2nd pairing is Stuart. However he'll be very hard to pry away from Detroit, especially after the playoffs he's been having.

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05-30-2008, 11:31 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I agree. I think our defense definitely needs the most work. Apart from that, securing a winger for Gomez is the only other pressing need in my opinion.

I still like Redden as a partner for Staal. I think the two are cut from the same mold and Staal could actually turn out to be better defensively while putting up slightly less impressive offensive numbers. I think a great option for the 2nd pairing is Stuart. However he'll be very hard to pry away from Detroit, especially after the playoffs he's been having.
the more i think about it the more i think a player like mccabe or redden might be a nice option as a calming presence on the backend....although redden i think is the better player, he will want a longer term on his contract, most likely 4-5 years.....if the rangers could swing a trade for a top two line winger who isnt going to break the bank, i would try and sign redden and one of orpik, stuart or smith to add grit....... to either the 2nd pairing or the third...as they need a player who will clear the crease and make people keep their heads up

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05-30-2008, 11:58 PM
  #490
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I believe foremost that the defence need some change, and the right changes will be a real boost to the offence. It might add .5 goals scored per game over the year, at least I don't think the goals for should slip from last years total. But more power on the forward lines is still needed.
I cannot believe that the Rangers do not need some more power up front. All I hear about is the need to re-sign Jagr. Okay (not my okay, by the way), but his style is not going to change. Who will be the talented and physically commanding player? Dubinsky is great and is improving, and Callahan may blossom today, but he is no there yet when it comes to playmaking or finishing.

Any team could do a whole lost worse than Sundin. I'm just defending him because the arguments against him seem all wrong to me. He is not too old at all. So by all means let's not even try to get Sundin. Let him do his usual competent job effectively elsewhere with little fanfare and with great results.

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