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The Sedins

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Old
05-28-2008, 05:09 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Yup, your are right... I double checked the 05-06 year and they played under 2mins of PK/game but that was their only year they played any significant time short handed.

Players like Datysuk + Zetterberg play on the PK and a ton at ES so why can't the Sedins?
Don't know. You'll have to ask Alain Vigneault. I imagine it has something to do with the plethora of excellent PKers the Canucks have -- Kesler, Burrows, Linden, Pettinger, Morrison, etc.

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05-28-2008, 05:44 PM
  #27
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[QUOTE=voxel;14236408]Yup, your are right... I double checked the 05-06 year and they played under 2mins of PK/game but that was their only year they played any significant time short handed.

Players like Datysuk + Zetterberg play on the PK and a ton at ES so why can't the Sedins?[/QUOTE]

Because the coach is trying to give them 20 offensive minutes a game. If you start playing them 3-4 minutes on the PK it would cut down their TOI in offensive situations.

If the Canucks add some competent secondary scoring and Vigneault is struggling to get the Sedin's out for 20 minutes of even strength and PP time I think you'll see them back killing penalties. From what I recall they were excellent PK'ers in 05-06.

The Sedin's are well above average defensive players.

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05-28-2008, 05:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Because the coach is trying to give them 20 offensive minutes a game. If you start playing them 3-4 minutes on the PK it would cut down their TOI in offensive situations.

If the Canucks add some competent secondary scoring and Vigneault is struggling to get the Sedin's out for 20 minutes of even strength and PP time I think you'll see them back killing penalties. From what I recall they were excellent PK'ers in 05-06.

The Sedin's are well above average defensive players.
Yep.

I'm pretty sure that the Swedish Olympic team coach said something along the lines of "the Sedins were born to play on the PK", back in 2006 as well.

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05-28-2008, 06:13 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Yup, your are right... I double checked the 05-06 year and they played under 2mins of PK/game but that was their only year they played any significant time short handed.

Players like Datysuk + Zetterberg play on the PK and a ton at ES so why can't the Sedins?
The thing is the Canucks have two excellent Pker's in Kesler and Burrows. After them the Sedins are the best defensive players on the team, but one of the biggest knocks against them is their speed. That doesn't really make them a threat on the PK (unlike D and Z). So instead of putting them out against other teams secondary units, AV would, rightly so, put out two of the Canucks other good defensive players (Morrison, Linden, Pyatt, Pettinger etc) and then have the Sedins play against weaker opposition since most of the other team's best players were just on the ice. It is that the Canucks have other good defensive forwards/a great group of defensemen/a great goalie it's just smart to have them fresh for the shift after since the Canucks need to be worried about scoring goals alot more than keeping them out. If the Sedins did have the speed of a Zetterberg you could be sure they would be eating up the PK time because they are two of the better conditioned players on the team as well.

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Old
05-28-2008, 06:14 PM
  #30
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I appreciate the repost. It is all very interesting and well researched. I guess what I "feel" (admittedly non-scientific) is that they're not guys who can make the team better by either dragging it over the finish line or making the players they play with better (with the exception of each other). Basically, I'm going on a hunch that may be outdated, but until the Canucks do something positive I'm not buying the hype (Luongo for iinstance is no longer the best young goalie in my mind any more).
the sedins did wonders for anson carter, taylor pyatt and trent klatt. carter scored over 30 goals with the twins, than went on to play himself out of the league 1 season later after leaving the twins. pyatt was a 4th liner traded for a 4th round pick, and went on to set career high in goals and points with the sedins. klatt was key contributor with the sedins, and is a borderline 3rd liner without them.
to me, that is making the players they play with better.

as to whether the sedins can drag their team over the finish line, its too early to tell. there are lots of people writing off datsyuk as a playoff performer 2 seasons ago, look at him now.

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05-28-2008, 06:25 PM
  #31
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Also, Vancouver's limited scorers, they can't afford to have one of the Sedins block a shot and be out for a month.

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05-28-2008, 07:17 PM
  #32
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Hoping the Canucks keep them and resign them. I don't see the point in trading these guys right now. They are the only 2 guys on the team who've proven they can score consistently. We need to add guys to help them and take the pressure off of them, not get rid of them.

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05-29-2008, 01:53 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by eldiablo17 View Post
If the Sedins did have the speed of a Zetterberg you could be sure they would be eating up the PK time because they are two of the better conditioned players on the team as well.
This is the best answer I've heard. I fully agree PKers with speed are a true threat (I'm a fan of Torrey Mitchell from the Sharks).

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Old
05-29-2008, 02:29 AM
  #34
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no he didn't
dude, he did say it.

He also said that their points are not easy to be replaced, and its unfair that the team have to rely on them for offensive production.

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05-29-2008, 03:05 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by eldiablo17 View Post
The thing is the Canucks have two excellent Pker's in Kesler and Burrows. After them the Sedins are the best defensive players on the team, but one of the biggest knocks against them is their speed. That doesn't really make them a threat on the PK (unlike D and Z). So instead of putting them out against other teams secondary units, AV would, rightly so, put out two of the Canucks other good defensive players (Morrison, Linden, Pyatt, Pettinger etc) and then have the Sedins play against weaker opposition since most of the other team's best players were just on the ice. It is that the Canucks have other good defensive forwards/a great group of defensemen/a great goalie it's just smart to have them fresh for the shift after since the Canucks need to be worried about scoring goals alot more than keeping them out. If the Sedins did have the speed of a Zetterberg you could be sure they would be eating up the PK time because they are two of the better conditioned players on the team as well.

The sedins might not be fast players. But i watched almost every single game in 05-06.. And the sedins were not just good pkers.. On many of the shifts they were outchancing the opposing team shorthanded.

Sometimes i think sedins 4-on-4 is as strong as having a linemate..

The reason that they are not pking anymore is because AV wants them to play 20 mins and like everyone knows the canucks have no offensive threat after the twins.

The sedins:

-consistently create grade A chances that even most 'star' players fail to do
-however they don't have the gamebreaking finish yet

-sedins are adequate defensive players because they are smart
-however they are only good at containing

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05-29-2008, 09:48 AM
  #36
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The sedins might not be fast players. But i watched almost every single game in 05-06.. And the sedins were not just good pkers.. On many of the shifts they were outchancing the opposing team shorthanded.

Sometimes i think sedins 4-on-4 is as strong as having a linemate..

The reason that they are not pking anymore is because AV wants them to play 20 mins and like everyone knows the canucks have no offensive threat after the twins.

The sedins:

-consistently create grade A chances that even most 'star' players fail to do
-however they don't have the gamebreaking finish yet

-sedins are adequate defensive players because they are smart
-however they are only good at containing
agree completely
they also don't shy away from the physical play (they like the corners), but aren't very tough....and their only real drawback is their only average speed

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Old
05-29-2008, 01:56 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Yup, your are right... I double checked the 05-06 year and they played under 2mins of PK/game but that was their only year they played any significant time short handed.

Players like Datysuk + Zetterberg play on the PK and a ton at ES so why can't the Sedins?
The Wings are one of the deepest offensive teams in the league, so they can afford to roll 4 lines. The Canucks are one of the weakest offensive teams IMO, so they can't afford to have their one consistent offensive threat out there killing penalies, especially when they have other guys that fill that role (Kesler, Burrows, etc).

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Old
05-30-2008, 03:53 PM
  #38
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My offer would be Komisarek, MTL's 2008 1st, Grabovski and the rights of Perezhogin for the Sedin brothers. Then, we'd have the Kostsitsyn and the Sedin brothers to max out the team chemistry and offence.

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Old
05-30-2008, 04:38 PM
  #39
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I would pay Daniel 4 and Henrik 4.25, if they went as a package i could see them getting a 100pt player with a pick or another core player. Both Sedins put up pretty good numbers but they will never be valued as players who can dominate. Often times niether of the Sedins produced well in interdivisional and other important games.

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Old
05-30-2008, 09:27 PM
  #40
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the sedins are not worth trading they are an excelent 2nd line as you do really need to worry about who the 3rd linemate is they will get you between 15 and 30 goals. The key now is getting an elite center somehow.

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