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06-01-2008, 04:06 PM
  #51
AJ1982
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Wow, I'm a little surprised about all the enthusiasm for Vermette.

If he plays center for us he is probably a third line center (like Cullen anyone?). His production probably drops.

If he plays wing I guess we could try him at second line. However, playing behind Spezza, Heatley and Alfie is a little different than playing behind Gomez and whoever we have on the first. What I mean is, some nights teams will put out their best defensive line against our second line (assuming we don't get Hossa or some other world class to give us a clearly superior number one line, which by the way, is what we really need along with a top notch defenseman). Or okay, you try him at the first line, but again, now he plays against the best defensive players most nights.

And finally, Ottawa probably wants us to overpay for Vermette in a trade and if we throw an offer sheet at him it will probably need to be big money to get him. All for a guy who has had one 50 point season. Nice player, and if he fell into our lap, great, but that's not going to happen and we should focus on getting the pieces we really need.
Not to be negative or anything.

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06-01-2008, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AJ1982 View Post
Wow, I'm a little surprised about all the enthusiasm for Vermette.

If he plays center for us he is probably a third line center (like Cullen anyone?). His production probably drops.

If he plays wing I guess we could try him at second line. However, playing behind Spezza, Heatley and Alfie is a little different than playing behind Gomez and whoever we have on the first. What I mean is, some nights teams will put out their best defensive line against our second line (assuming we don't get Hossa or some other world class to give us a clearly superior number one line, which by the way, is what we really need along with a top notch defenseman). Or okay, you try him at the first line, but again, now he plays against the best defensive players most nights.

And finally, Ottawa probably wants us to overpay for Vermette in a trade and if we throw an offer sheet at him it will probably need to be big money to get him. All for a guy who has had one 50 point season. Nice player, and if he fell into our lap, great, but that's not going to happen and we should focus on getting the pieces we really need.

have you seen him play?....and this is not an attack on you, i just like to ask is all.....he is more than a 50 point player...he was their best player in the playoffs this year...he switched linemates practically every game due to their injuries at the end of the year and towards the end was playing with 2 ahl call-ups....50 points?....on a line with gomez he could put up 60-65 or more and he is only what?....24-25?.....he has great speed and has a good amount of skill....he is a top two line player on this team and many others and he plays center and wing....sounds like a fit to me.....also, it would fill the hole on the second line, and im sure he wouldnt break the bank therefore they could go after redden and orpik if they wanted which would make the defense a lot better

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06-01-2008, 05:13 PM
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I'd LOVE Vermette on this team. The kid is going to be a future star. An EXCELLENT face off man, very fast on the skates, a smooth skater, can score goals, pass the puck off decent, stick handle well, etc; He'll be a 65pt player in the NHL soon.

That's it, lets dump Captain Clutch Chris Drury, free up several million on the cap, and get Vermette. And I'm not really kidding that much, its the sad part. Still so disappointed with our signings last year. Vermette could inject some life into this team.

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06-01-2008, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
I'd LOVE Vermette on this team. The kid is going to be a future star. An EXCELLENT face off man, very fast on the skates, a smooth skater, can score goals, pass the puck off decent, stick handle well, etc; He'll be a 65pt player in the NHL soon.

That's it, lets dump Captain Clutch Chris Drury, free up several million on the cap, and get Vermette. And I'm not really kidding that much, its the sad part. Still so disappointed with our signings last year. Vermette could inject some life into this team.
you can have both.....why dump anyone?....especially once drury actually looked like he found some linemates he could play with(shanny and avery werent working out)......i would trade tyutin and our 1st for him as he is already established in the league....although they may take a second as tyutin is his equal but on defense....

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06-01-2008, 05:19 PM
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I'm always reall impressed with Vermette when the Sens come to MSG. So fast. But what about his hands? If we get him, which I wouldn't be opposed to, I would want management/scouts to be confident that he can step up to the role of a first or second line scoring winger. Can he do this? Maybe, but maybe if he hasnt done it in Ottawa he won't be able to do it here.

I wouild be interested though. What would it take? Dawes & Sauer for Vermette?

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06-01-2008, 05:25 PM
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I'm always reall impressed with Vermette when the Sens come to MSG. So fast. But what about his hands? If we get him, which I wouldn't be opposed to, I would want management/scouts to be confident that he can step up to the role of a first or second line scoring winger. Can he do this? Maybe, but maybe if he hasnt done it in Ottawa he won't be able to do it here.

I wouild be interested though. What would it take? Dawes & Sauer for Vermette?
he occasionally plays on the top line...and he could definatley play on the 2nd line if fischer wasnt making 4.2 million.....he would very easily be better than dawes on the seond line and he has better offensive talent than avery...making him immediatley the second best winger on the team.......which is good and sad at the same time

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06-01-2008, 05:46 PM
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have you seen him play?....and this is not an attack on you, i just like to ask is all.....he is more than a 50 point player...he was their best player in the playoffs this year...he switched linemates practically every game due to their injuries at the end of the year and towards the end was playing with 2 ahl call-ups....50 points?....on a line with gomez he could put up 60-65 or more and he is only what?....24-25?.....he has great speed and has a good amount of skill....he is a top two line player on this team and many others and he plays center and wing....sounds like a fit to me.....also, it would fill the hole on the second line, and im sure he wouldnt break the bank therefore they could go after redden and orpik if they wanted which would make the defense a lot better
Yeah, I've seen him play. To be fair I don't see a ton of Ottawa games, so I'm no expert on his game. Just going from what I've seen when I watched Ottawa play against us and Buffalo on tv. But I think I'm in the same boat as most in terms of how much I've seen him play.

I'm not sure he could handle a first line work load, if he plays with Gomez that's likely the first line. I really think he benefits playing behind probably the most talented line in the world. I don't think he solves the bigger problems we have and I think he would be pretty expensive for his value as a decent second line player.

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06-01-2008, 06:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by AJ1982 View Post
Yeah, I've seen him play. To be fair I don't see a ton of Ottawa games, so I'm no expert on his game. Just going from what I've seen when I watched Ottawa play against us and Buffalo on tv. But I think I'm in the same boat as most in terms of how much I've seen him play.

I'm not sure he could handle a first line work load, if he plays with Gomez that's likely the first line. I really think he benefits playing behind probably the most talented line in the world. I don't think he solves the bigger problems we have and I think he would be pretty expensive for his value as a decent second line player.
i think he coud play with gomez, and this team isnt like the sens where one line carries the load....all the lines chip in and there wouldnt be a ton of pressure on him....i think his potential is a borderline firat liner which is always nice to have...especially one with his flexibility(center or wing), experience(think of how many time the sens have been in the playoffs since he has been on the team) and his speed.....i think his speed is the selling point for me...as gomez needs someone to keep up with him and vermette can and he is defensively responsible...

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06-02-2008, 11:16 AM
  #59
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i agree with the fact the rangers have to be creative this offseason, however i dont want sather throwing offer sheets around...i would rather trade for him, or someone else like perry if they cant fit him under the cap
I'm at the point now where I think a proven RFA is worth a 1st and 3rd round pick over keeping and drafting your own 1st round pick. (the 3 year entry level contract is how i've come to this conclussion) By the time an 09 pick is contributing to the team winning (considering where the Rangers should be drafting the next few years) the guy you could've signed is already in the midst of his prime.

Vermette is 24 years old if you sign him to a 5 year offer sheet his prime years are spent at the NHL level. He is already developed (unlike the draft pick) and you already know you are getting a guy that will help you win right now. Not a 32 year old who has years of NHL mileage on him but a 24 year old who is ready to take the next step.

Vermette is worth a 1st and 3rd round pick and is one of the few RFA that can probably be "stolen" this offseason. The days of Restricted Free Agents being totally ignored are over.

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06-02-2008, 11:23 AM
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I'm at the point now where I think a proven RFA is worth a 1st and 3rd round pick over keeping and drafting your own 1st round pick. (the 3 year entry level contract is how i've come to this conclussion) By the time an 09 pick is contributing to the team winning (considering where the Rangers should be drafting the next few years) the guy you could've signed is already in the midst of his prime.

Vermette is 24 years old if you sign him to a 5 year offer sheet his prime years are spent at the NHL level. He is already developed (unlike the draft pick) and you already know you are getting a guy that will help you win right now. Not a 32 year old who has years of NHL mileage on him but a 24 year old who is ready to take the next step.

Vermette is worth a 1st and 3rd round pick and is one of the few RFA that can probably be "stolen" this offseason. The days of Restricted Free Agents being totally ignored are over.
if all it would cost is a 1st and 3rd i would do it, however i think it woul dbe more like a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 2 1sts for that 5 million dollar contract......it depends on what the price would be

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06-02-2008, 11:31 AM
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if all it would cost is a 1st and 3rd i would do it, however i think it woul dbe more like a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 2 1sts for that 5 million dollar contract......it depends on what the price would be
This is what the compensation was for last years Restricted Free Agents..

Vermette to me is worth $3.5 million a year. I would not give up more then a 1st and a 3rd but if the dollars go up this year to $4M then you'd have to think about it..

$773,442 or less None
$773,442 - $1,171,882 3rd round pick
$1,171,882 - $2,343,764 2nd round pick
$2,343,764 - $3,515,645 1st and 3rd round pick
$3,515,645 - $4,687,527 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$4,687,527 - $5,859,412 Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick
$5,859,412 or more Four 1st round picks

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06-02-2008, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
This is what the compensation was for last years Restricted Free Agents..

Vermette to me is worth $3.5 million a year. I would not give up more then a 1st and a 3rd but if the dollars go up this year to $4M then you'd have to think about it..

$773,442 or less None
$773,442 - $1,171,882 3rd round pick
$1,171,882 - $2,343,764 2nd round pick
$2,343,764 - $3,515,645 1st and 3rd round pick
$3,515,645 - $4,687,527 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick
$4,687,527 - $5,859,412 Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick
$5,859,412 or more Four 1st round picks
If it came to that, I'd much rather throw the money at Corey Perry than Vermette. I think Vermette is a great player, but he isn't really that impact player we should be looking for IMO.

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06-02-2008, 11:45 AM
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If it came to that, I'd much rather throw the money at Corey Perry than Vermette. I think Vermette is a great player, but he isn't really that impact player we should be looking for IMO.
I think the Ducks would match a $3.5M contract for Perry. However I'd probably think about giving up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Perry.

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06-02-2008, 11:47 AM
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If it came to that, I'd much rather throw the money at Corey Perry than Vermette. I think Vermette is a great player, but he isn't really that impact player we should be looking for IMO.
i would do a 1st and a 3rd....although i would inquire about perry first

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06-02-2008, 11:54 AM
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I think the Ducks would match a $3.5M contract for Perry. However I'd probably think about giving up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Perry.
Sorry, thats what I was getting at as well. It was meant as a response to if Vermette was going for 4+.

I think 4.2+ to Perry would make it difficult for the Ducks to match. He's definitely the type of player we could use on this team. If we had Perry, I'd gladly say goodbye to Avery to help ease the cap hit as well.

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06-02-2008, 11:55 AM
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I'm at the point now where I think a proven RFA is worth a 1st and 3rd round pick over keeping and drafting your own 1st round pick
Especially with our draft record in the first two rounds (which has improved)... and what's that saying - one bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. The draft is by far a gamble where you've got nothing certain save the top 2 or 3, and a 50/50 shot in the top 10. Rounds 5-7 are our best.

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06-02-2008, 11:56 AM
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Sorry, thats what I was getting at as well. It was meant as a response to if Vermette was going for 4+.

I think 4.2+ to Perry would make it difficult for the Ducks to match. He's definitely the type of player we could use on this team. If we had Perry, I'd gladly say goodbye to Avery to help ease the cap hit as well.
ramgers probably could sign avery for 3.5 and perry for 4.2.....wouldnt be impossible

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06-02-2008, 11:58 AM
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If you want Vermette the Sens would want a defenseman back like Girardi and a prospect such as Bourret.

Girardi can play on our second pair with Meszaros and I want Bourret to play on a line with Fisher.

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06-02-2008, 12:11 PM
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ramgers probably could sign avery for 3.5 and perry for 4.2.....wouldnt be impossible
Possible, but I don't think Avery is as important to this team as many people feel he is. Despite the statistics that they keep showing regarding the teams record with and without Avery, he doesn't bring that much to the table on a regular enough basis to be worth more than 3 mil per year.

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06-02-2008, 12:45 PM
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Possible, but I don't think Avery is as important to this team as many people feel he is. Despite the statistics that they keep showing regarding the teams record with and without Avery, he doesn't bring that much to the table on a regular enough basis to be worth more than 3 mil per year.
i agree...he is worth 3 million, however they could fit him at 3.5 if they needed to is all im saying

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06-02-2008, 04:39 PM
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If he'd take 3.5 or under, I'd sign him to an offer sheet. Why not?

As far as trade, I'd give up Bourret is a sec, but would hesitate with Girardi. Would rather flip Sauer.

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