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Would you do Theo + for Gagné & Pitkanen?

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Old
05-25-2004, 08:44 PM
  #76
EaGLE1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
My arguement isn't wheather or not Theodore is better than Esche, because he is. My arguement is that the Flyers didn't lose because of Esche (much like they didn't lose the last 2 years because of Cechmanek, but don't tell Jeremy Roenick that). While Esche wasn't good in Game 6, the Flyers still won, and Montreal have had games with Theodore in net in the past where he let in some not so good goals (Bergeron in OT).

But the difference between winning and losing the series wasn't Robert Esche. It was penalty killing and Nikolai Khabibulin.
Yeah Khabibulin is sharp those days. We had the same problems in those series: the performance of Nikolai. He was stellar against us. And very good against Flyers.

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05-25-2004, 09:25 PM
  #77
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These trade "talks" baffle me. As if Montreal has another option in net.

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05-25-2004, 11:30 PM
  #78
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If you don't want us(me and the pple agreeing with me) to compare Theodore to Hasek,Roy,Brodeur then please you don't compare Esche to Theodore.

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05-25-2004, 11:59 PM
  #79
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Some Hab fans here have some delusional views about Mr.Theo. He's good but not the best. He has had one outstanding season and that's it. He lost the playoffs for us this season, no question about it. If you would have asked me going into the playoffs if I felt confident with him in net, my answer would have been yes. But now...I'm not so sure. I use to think he was a money goalie....I lost a lot of faith in him this year. Hopefully he can bounce back next year.

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05-26-2004, 08:19 AM
  #80
JCD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Pitkanen was benched against Tampa Bay i think?? I'm wrong? If so, why and how much games?
Pitkanen didn't play because he is a 20 year old rookie in his 1st year pro. He was closing on 90 games played for the year when he had barely topped 50 before that.

To use that as a reason to degrade him is, at best, laughable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
And yeah, Theodore have been poor in the playoffs this year. He gave at least 7 flukes goals on 11 games. Way to much. But, Guy Cloutier & all his family was arrested by the police. Some peoples also wanted to kill Jose Theodore. His team entered the playoffs on a bad streak, his confidence was low.
I see. Theodore gets excuses for his poor play, but if Esche has A (as in singular) bad game it is because he isn't up to snuff or when Pitkanen is benched in favor of a vet it is because he is over-rated.

I smell hypocrisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
On the positive side, he was at the all-star game this year, not because of reputation, but because of performance. He won Hart + Vezina, he's only 27, family problems will soon be history. And our team is the best in the last 10 years. Now Theodore will finally play with a good team in front of him, with a good defence.
On the positive side, Gagne is the best young player the Flyers have had since Lindros and Pitkanen is the best young defender the Flyers have had. Ever. Esche played surprisingly well for his first season as a starter and goaltender, once again, was not the reason the Flyers lost. Nor has it been for several seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
It's not time to trade him for a 2nd line winger & a talented but highly unproven young defenceman.

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05-26-2004, 08:25 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
These trade "talks" baffle me. As if Montreal has another option in net.
Oh but we do.............Garon

Yes im seroius, im a strong believer in him

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05-26-2004, 05:20 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooch
Oh but we do.............Garon

Yes im seroius, im a strong believer in him
Give him 20-30 games next season...We'll see who is the best...Garon will be trade

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05-26-2004, 06:25 PM
  #83
Mats NAslund
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
These trade "talks" baffle me. As if Montreal has another option in net.

Montreal has agreat option in nets his na,e is Garon...he's very capable of being a number one goalie and would be on a alot of NHL teams right now. Garon has more skill then Theodore and is bigger therefore less net to shoot at. Also Montreal has very good goaltending depth in the minors with Danis, Michaud and I beleive Tarasov in Russia.

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05-26-2004, 08:30 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
Pitkanen didn't play because he is a 20 year old rookie in his 1st year pro. He was closing on 90 games played for the year when he had barely topped 50 before that.

To use that as a reason to degrade him is, at best, laughable.



I see. Theodore gets excuses for his poor play, but if Esche has A (as in singular) bad game it is because he isn't up to snuff or when Pitkanen is benched in favor of a vet it is because he is over-rated.

I smell hypocrisy.



On the positive side, Gagne is the best young player the Flyers have had since Lindros and Pitkanen is the best young defender the Flyers have had. Ever. Esche played surprisingly well for his first season as a starter and goaltender, once again, was not the reason the Flyers lost. Nor has it been for several seasons.






IMO Pitkanen has a chance to be a real good defenseman in the NHL for a long time but from what I seen of him this year he is a real soft player. Pillsbury Doughboyish. Sooooooooffffffffttttttttt!


Esche...we'll see. He had a good playoff but face it, he really has to show it over an extended period.
Who knows? Maybe the Flyers finally have a Goaltender they can rely on for the next decade.

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Old
05-27-2004, 07:58 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidboot
IMO Pitkanen has a chance to be a real good defenseman in the NHL for a long time but from what I seen of him this year he is a real soft player. Pillsbury Doughboyish. Sooooooooffffffffttttttttt!


Esche...we'll see. He had a good playoff but face it, he really has to show it over an extended period.
Who knows? Maybe the Flyers finally have a Goaltender they can rely on for the next decade.
They called Lidstrom soft too. Pitkanen doesn't use his size to his advantage, granted, but he is not nearly as soft as you indicate. Considering his age (he has not filled out yet) and inexperience, he deserves at least couple seasons before being tagged as a soft player.

I am not sold on Esche. I think he is a mediocre goaltender who plays to the level of the team. Hackett-like upside at best. He isn't a guy that will steal games, win the Vezina or take the Smyth. However, the Flyers did not ask him to be that guy either. Contrary to Hab belief, goaltender is not the Flyers achilles heel. Esche was unable to rise up and mask the team's deficiencies elsewhere, but you cannot blame a goaltender for that. Truth be told, Theodore had more to do with the Habs loss than Esche did with the Flyers loss. Flyers were beaten by Tampa because of special teams. Our PowerPlay derailed (on a sidenote, the PP's effectiveness corrosponded with Pitkanen's play. When he struggled, so did the PP. Could be coincidence) Our PK was worse. TB was just too fast and too skilled to contain with the man advantage. Compound that with some jarhead penalties, you are going to lose.

Flyers need to rebuild. Gagne and Piktanen are the cornerstones of that. Trading them for Theodore is moving backwards. Especially when Esche is adequate.

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Old
05-27-2004, 08:05 AM
  #86
skidboot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD
They called Lidstrom soft too. Pitkanen doesn't use his size to his advantage, granted, but he is not nearly as soft as you indicate. Considering his age (he has not filled out yet) and inexperience, he deserves at least couple seasons before being tagged as a soft player.

I am not sold on Esche. I think he is a mediocre goaltender who plays to the level of the team. Hackett-like upside at best. He isn't a guy that will steal games, win the Vezina or take the Smyth. However, the Flyers did not ask him to be that guy either. Contrary to Hab belief, goaltender is not the Flyers achilles heel. Esche was unable to rise up and mask the team's deficiencies elsewhere, but you cannot blame a goaltender for that. Truth be told, Theodore had more to do with the Habs loss than Esche did with the Flyers loss. Flyers were beaten by Tampa because of special teams. Our PowerPlay derailed (on a sidenote, the PP's effectiveness corrosponded with Pitkanen's play. When he struggled, so did the PP. Could be coincidence) Our PK was worse. TB was just too fast and too skilled to contain with the man advantage. Compound that with some jarhead penalties, you are going to lose.

Flyers need to rebuild. Gagne and Piktanen are the cornerstones of that. Trading them for Theodore is moving backwards. Especially when Esche is adequate.


Pitkanen makes Sta-Puft the Marshmallow Man look like Ray Lewis on a Roid Rage.

Luckily for him there is plenty of time to change.



I always thought that building a Championship team is to work from the net out.
Hopefully Esche can be that guy for the Flyers.
We'll see.

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