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Do the Flyers want a salary cap or not?

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05-26-2004, 12:58 PM
  #1
misterjaggers
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Do the Flyers want a salary cap or not?

Flyers' chairman Snider complains of red ink, saying his team lost money this season despite playing deep into the playoffs:
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...8759297.htm?1c

Flyers' G.M. Clarke (risking a fine) says a salary cap will hurt successful big market clubs like the Flyers because they won't be able to offset their draft disadvantage by spending big in the UFA market: http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Winnip...26/473012.html

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05-26-2004, 01:23 PM
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the Flyers are likely going to have to hope that Richards and Carter are both top 6 forwards- dealing Woywitcka and then Comrie could be painful; The Flyers are going to have to resign Primeau and get two more good years out of he and JR and have these two kids ready. Comrie would have been important because I see Amonte, LeClair, and Recchi either close to done career wise or with Flyers. Markov is talented but looking at the Flyers they could have had Gagne, Williams, Richards and Carter as the core in two years and still had the d-man they dealt to the Oilers. I can see them going after a guy like O'Neill but again, it would be Clarke selling the future for a guy like O'Neill. If I were the Canes I'd go after there kids realizing Clarke could care less about 3 years from now or longer and more about his hide. In the end without UFA's the Flyers are in the lower level sooner than you think. What hurts is the Cup was there for the Flyers.

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05-26-2004, 01:27 PM
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The Comrie fiasco - what a debacle. I can't believe Clarke survives after deals like Oates for Oulette + 1/2/3 picks, then the 2 deals involving Comrie, for a backup goalie who did not play much or well. Those are brutal trades.

 
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05-26-2004, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers
Flyers' chairman Snider complains of red ink, saying his team lost money this season despite playing deep into the playoffs:
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/spo...8759297.htm?1c

Flyers' G.M. Clarke (risking a fine) says a salary cap will hurt successful big market clubs like the Flyers because they won't be able to offset their draft disadvantage by spending big in the UFA market: http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Winnip...26/473012.html
Clarke's not an owner. He spends his owners' money to try and win a Cup, as he did prolifically this year and still came up short. If he and his owner have a disagreement, he loses. Thus, the Flyers want a cap.

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05-26-2004, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erfus
Clarke's not an owner. He spends his owners' money to try and win a Cup, as he did prolifically this year and still came up short. If he and his owner have a disagreement, he loses. Thus, the Flyers want a cap.
The Flyers and Snider (owner) do NOT want a hard salary cap. A luxury tax possibly. The Flyers understand how to budget for themselves, as should other team owners.

They Flyers budget is set so that if the team plays 3 home playoff games the team breaks even. Any less than that the team loses money, and more than that the team will turn a profit.

The last two years they purposefully exceeded that way of thinking, as they rightly felt they had a very legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup.

Snider has plenty of money, and he's not looking to lose money every year, he'll take that chance to win another Cup.

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05-26-2004, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH
In the end without UFA's the Flyers are in the lower level sooner than you think. What hurts is the Cup was there for the Flyers.
Quick question, do you know how many UFA's the Flyers had on their roster to start the playoffs ???

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05-26-2004, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye
The Comrie fiasco - what a debacle. I can't believe Clarke survives after deals like Oates for Oulette + 1/2/3 picks, then the 2 deals involving Comrie, for a backup goalie who did not play much or well. Those are brutal trades.
Perhaps because he's very good at the draft table, and is able to stockpile draft picks and talent.

Enough so that within months of the Oates deal he was able to package a young player, and two 2nd round picks for the #4 overall pick in the draft. Then he's able to follow that up by having two #1 picks the following year.

Or perhaps because he's able to pick up a starting goalie (Esche) and a 2nd line center (Handzus) for a goalies that's been put on the waiver wire (Boucher).

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05-26-2004, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Quick question, do you know how many UFA's the Flyers had on their roster to start the playoffs ???
According to the Hockey News, the Flyers had 5 UFA's:
Burke
Malakhov
Primeau
Recchi
Zhamnov

And 5 RFA's:
Fedoruk
Gagne
Handzus
Johnsson
Radivojevic

The B's are in worse shape, with 13 UFA's:
Donato
Green
Grosek
Knuble
McGillis
Moran
Murray
Nylander
O'Donnell
Potvin
Rolston
Slegr
Zamuner

And 9 RFA's:
Delmore
Gill
Girard
Gonchar
Hilbert
MacDonald
Raycroft
Samsonov
Thornton

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05-26-2004, 03:34 PM
  #9
erfus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
The Flyers and Snider (owner) do NOT want a hard salary cap. A luxury tax possibly. The Flyers understand how to budget for themselves, as should other team owners.

They Flyers budget is set so that if the team plays 3 home playoff games the team breaks even. Any less than that the team loses money, and more than that the team will turn a profit.

The last two years they purposefully exceeded that way of thinking, as they rightly felt they had a very legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup.

Snider has plenty of money, and he's not looking to lose money every year, he'll take that chance to win another Cup.
So, Snider's whining to posture for a CBA fight? Fair enough (I didn't read the 1st article linked because I'm too lazy to register at philly.com).

The way the Flyers did business this year, and are apparently intending to do business next year isn't sustainable; nor is it something that I think the majority of the other owners will appreciate.

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05-26-2004, 03:53 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erfus
So, Snider's whining to posture for a CBA fight? Fair enough (I didn't read the 1st article linked because I'm too lazy to register at philly.com).
The way the Flyers did business this year, and are apparently intending to do business next year isn't sustainable; nor is it something that I think the majority of the other owners will appreciate.
Here's an excerpt:

"...Monday at the Flyers Skate Zone...Ed Snider offered the assertion that the team would lose money this season despite advancing to three rounds of the postseason.
This seems amazing on the face of it,...This is a team that plays to a near-capacity house throughout the regular season, a team with local television and radio income among the top four in the league.
It is an efficient team that, according to reliable reports, has operating expenses well within the bottom half of the league.
This is a team that sells a lot of merchandise, has its name on four regional skating facilities, and - here's a friendly arrangement - is owned by the same people who also own its minor-league team, the buildings the teams play in, the company that manages those buildings, the concessionaire at the buildings, and the cable television station that serves as the primary media outlet.
The Flyers say their player payroll this year ate up the profits, and it did top approximately $60 million when you dig through all the deferred payments and the partial salaries of those players who joined the ride during the season..."

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05-26-2004, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wensink
According to the Hockey News, the Flyers had 5 UFA's:
My question wasmeant to imply how many of the Flyers on the roster were aquired via UFA signings, sorry for the misunderstanding.


The answer is one. Roenick is the onlly Flyer that was aquired via a free agent signing.

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05-26-2004, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erfus
So, Snider's whining to posture for a CBA fight? Fair enough (I didn't read the 1st article linked because I'm too lazy to register at philly.com).

The way the Flyers did business this year, and are apparently intending to do business next year isn't sustainable; nor is it something that I think the majority of the other owners will appreciate.
I'll rephrase one thing. The Flyers would not at all be happy with a hard cap of anything below $50 million.

I'm sure that Snider wouldn't mind a hard cap in the $54-60 million range.

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05-26-2004, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
I'll rephrase one thing. The Flyers would not at all be happy with a hard cap of anything below $50 million.

I'm sure that Snider wouldn't mind a hard cap in the $54-60 million range.
Thanks mrjaggers for posting the snippet.

Of course, the Yanks weren't happy w/ the luxury tax either. So they ignore it. It'll be fun to see if someone Steinbrenners the NHL owners--Mr. Bettman would be oh so unhappy.

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05-26-2004, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erfus
Thanks mrjaggers for posting the snippet.

Of course, the Yanks weren't happy w/ the luxury tax either. So they ignore it. It'll be fun to see if someone Steinbrenners the NHL owners--Mr. Bettman would be oh so unhappy.
Steinbrenner voted for the cap. And as long as MLB allows him to do what he wants, he's going to do what he wants. That's what Snider wants too.

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05-27-2004, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
My question wasmeant to imply how many of the Flyers on the roster were aquired via UFA signings, sorry for the misunderstanding.


The answer is one. Roenick is the onlly Flyer that was aquired via a free agent signing.

No problem.

Actually, I think the amount of UFA's that the Flyers have on their roster works in their favor. Sure these guys (except Burke) are starters, but they shouldn't be too hard to retain if they ever go with a managable "cap".

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05-27-2004, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
My question wasmeant to imply how many of the Flyers on the roster were aquired via UFA signings, sorry for the misunderstanding.


The answer is one. Roenick is the onlly Flyer that was aquired via a free agent signing.
That's not true. Leclair, Reechi, Ragnarsson and Desjardins were all due to reach unrestricted free agency. Though they were all re-signed, in effect, they would have been UFAs.

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05-27-2004, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by MeisterBruinmaker
That's not true. Leclair, Reechi, Ragnarsson and Desjardins were all due to reach unrestricted free agency. Though they were all re-signed, in effect, they would have been UFAs.
That wasn't his point. His point was how many were aquired via free agency.

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05-27-2004, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
That wasn't his point. His point was how many were aquired via free agency.
It's a matter of semantics. The bottom line is those guys were gonna be UFAs. If the Flyers want them, in most cases, they had to pay for it. In my mind, that's as much of a UFA signing as not. I rest my case.

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05-27-2004, 12:26 PM
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Dr Love
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Originally Posted by MeisterBruinmaker
It's a matter of semantics. The bottom line is those guys were gonna be UFAs. If the Flyers want them, in most cases, they had to pay for it. In my mind, that's as much of a UFA signing as not. I rest my case.
It's not a UFA signing. They orginally aquired those players by trade. Sure, they were going to be UFAs, but that doesn't qualify them as being Flyers via free agency, because it's not how they aquired them. You're not making much sense, first you argue a point, then you call it semantics and that bottom line it doesn't matter. One or the other, not both.

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05-27-2004, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
It's not a UFA signing. They orginally aquired those players by trade. Sure, they were going to be UFAs, but that doesn't qualify them as being Flyers via free agency, because it's not how they aquired them. You're not making much sense, first you argue a point, then you call it semantics and that bottom line it doesn't matter. One or the other, not both.
I've been saying the same thing all along. Let's see who's not making sense here....

"aquired via UFA signings"

Let's see...Roenick was a UFA, Leclair, Reechi, Ragnarsson and Desjardins were all on their way. The Flyers had to pay for signing many of them prior to free agent status. I said it was a matter of semantics. Seems to me that even though they weren't officially UFAs, their contract lengths and amounts pretty much meant it was the same thing. Capiche?

Not sure what your problem is, maybe you can explain it.

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