HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

James murphy article about quebec city and the nords

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-02-2008, 04:19 PM
  #26
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,713
vCash: 700
SOLR even if it was because of political issues , the fall of the dollar and the explosion of payrolls was just too much. Political will or not the Habs still pay more tax than all the teams in the league combined.

Right now Quebec City could handle it. But if the Canadian dollar drops again it would be the same problem the Habs had but worse because they won't get as much revenues.

Bettman has other places like these in mind :

Las Vegas, Jerry Bruckheimer + AEG ( The Pirates of the Caribbean, CSI ) wants a team.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/112479

Kansas City, AEG( Brand new arena, have been waiting in the wings for quite some time trying to get Pittsburgh among others) http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2720130

Corporate kings of hockey
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...rtsHockey/home


Sadly we can't really put names on a project in Quebec city and that's what hold them back, it always comes down to the governe-maman helping out or the mayor having to goes out of his way to make sure people talk about it.

Quote:
"It's great for the Canadian teams," Bettman said of the current currency exchange. "But the dollar both north and south of the border will go in cycles. I think people make too much out of it. We have always just watched [the fluctuation between the American and Canadian dollar], and there has never been anything we can do about it. When the dollar is strong in Canada, it obviously helps the revenues of NHL clubs."

Team_Spirit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2008, 04:22 PM
  #27
GNick42
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
SOLR even if it was because of political issues , the fall of the dollar and the explosion of payrolls was just too much. Political will or not the Habs still pay more tax than all the teams in the league combined.

Right now Quebec City could handle it. But if the Canadian dollar drops again it would be the same problem the Habs had but worse because they won't get as much revenues.

Bettman has other places like these in mind :

Las Vegas, Jerry Bruckheimer + AEG ( The Pirates of the Caribbean, CSI ) wants a team.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/112479

Kansas City, AEG( Brand new arena, have been waiting in the wings for quite some time trying to get Pittsburgh among others) http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2720130

Corporate kings of hockey
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...rtsHockey/home


Sadly we can't really put names on a project in Quebec city and that's what hold them back, it always comes down to the governe-maman helping out or the mayor having to goes out of his way to make sure people talk about it.
SOLR sounds like a good hockey fan but a weak financial man.

GNick42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2008, 04:59 PM
  #28
hockeyscribe22
HFB Partner
 
hockeyscribe22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston and Montreal
Country: United States
Posts: 4,228
vCash: 500
Not necessarily..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
SOLR sounds like a good hockey fan but a weak financial man.
Maybe just not the greed-driven type like those in the NHL, who only go for the quick buck and instant gratification. I've always been a supporter of the saying from Field of Dreams:

"If you build it, they will come"

Such is the case in Quebec. If someone that has the money, could get over the initial hit and think of the long-term benefits, then they will get a team!

hockeyscribe22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2008, 05:58 PM
  #29
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
SOLR even if it was because of political issues , the fall of the dollar and the explosion of payrolls was just too much. Political will or not the Habs still pay more tax than all the teams in the league combined.

Right now Quebec City could handle it. But if the Canadian dollar drops again it would be the same problem the Habs had but worse because they won't get as much revenues.
True, it was too much for ALL canadian franchises(not in Toronto), Alberta saved the oilers and flames and I remember the Canucks being in a bad shape as well, Melnick had to save the sens. Sure, the dollar could go down again, theres no certainty in the current situation, never pretended otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Sadly we can't really put names on a project in Quebec city and that's what hold them back, it always comes down to the governe-maman helping out or the mayor having to goes out of his way to make sure people talk about it.
Aubut as publicly said he was pushing again, plus Guy Bertrand's group is registered as a lobby, plus the group led by Charest as been pretty vocal... There's names, organizing a 550m$ deal doesn't take 3 months either.


Last edited by SOLR: 06-02-2008 at 08:42 PM.
SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2008, 06:03 PM
  #30
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
SOLR sounds like a good hockey fan but a weak financial man.
Pretty funny stuff. That's too bad for my clients I guess.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-02-2008, 08:41 PM
  #31
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Totally not going to happen...you're just going in circles...you're not listening to common sense.
Your opinion isnt common-sense it's GNick42 sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Bettman and majority of owners don't want another team in Canada.
Back it up maybe? You can't because nobody is in the know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
And, even if they did come to Canada QC has to trump an offer like a Baisillie guy can put on the table.
What if Balsillie after trying twice to bring a team to Hamilton decides to change his target city to Quebec City? It's the 2nd biggest target.(No...no...it's not winnipeg, they too don't have an NHL arena.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
What the owners want is to move into major tv markets...to increase the popularity of the game and ended eventually in a major tv contract. Albeit many years from now. Coming to a Quebec City is the total opposite of what they are looking for.
The only remaining big US markets without a teams are Houston and Seattle-Portland, there will be some relocations in the next 5 years, they can both pursue the US objective and the Canadian objective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
How can you convince the owners to give QC another team, move into a small market when the 10th biggest tv market in North America doesn't have an NHL team? See what they are building towards? It all boils down to money...they are trying to finanically take the game higher.
Granted, I don't disagree with that fact. But heres another fact, that maybe you don't understand yet. Quebec City would directly compete with the habs in the Province hockey market. If you take only the regions of the province and eastern Canada, the Nords would still have a top 20 Hockey TV market.(The Canadian TV contracts are pretty lucrative for the league now.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
I see a team in Houston, Vegas, KC maybe even Cleveland before Canada. Then Baillisie with his deep pockets, has a virtually lock for a team in Canada.
Houston, agree, I would put a team there first.
Vegas, no, no and no, at least not before they see Pheonix going well.
KC, depending on Nashville.(It's not a big TV argument at all)
Cleveland(Never heard of any talk about them)

I could see Quebec being a candidate for expansion along side KC and Winnipeg, who wins then it's really up in air depending on presentation quality etc.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-03-2008, 11:22 AM
  #32
Megaforce
Registered User
 
Megaforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: St. Raymond NDG/Mtl
Country: Azerbaijan
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
..a little over 2 years ago I bought a house in Regina for $137,000. On credit, stayed periodically with traveling but never lived there full time...sold it in May, 2008...for $289,000. Made $150,000 in 2 years on it. It's just crazy out there....money everywhere...
Not to undermine your point, which is valid and important, buy this also happened in Montreal, perhaps it was even larger out west, but if you bought a house in like 1998 in Montreal and resold it in 2003, you doubled or tripled your money.

Megaforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-03-2008, 12:45 PM
  #33
hockeyscribe22
HFB Partner
 
hockeyscribe22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Boston and Montreal
Country: United States
Posts: 4,228
vCash: 500
Wish it was like that in the States..

Tough time down here gentlemen!

hockeyscribe22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-03-2008, 01:42 PM
  #34
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyscribe22 View Post
Tough time down here gentlemen!
Just elect Obama...

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-03-2008, 05:05 PM
  #35
nas84
Registered User
 
nas84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Not to undermine your point, which is valid and important, buy this also happened in Montreal, perhaps it was even larger out west, but if you bought a house in like 1998 in Montreal and resold it in 2003, you doubled or tripled your money.
ill ****ing cosign that.

my parents bought a house in 2001, and its already worth 2.5 times what they purchased it for

i, on the other hand, am a new graduate working in engineering who is currently tripping balls over the prices of real estate here:s

nas84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-03-2008, 05:17 PM
  #36
Ismellofhockey
Registered User
 
Ismellofhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Truthfully, I think a team should go to either Winnipeg or Golden Horseshoe area before Quebec City. I was there two summers ago...not much finanically on the go
And I suppose Winnipeg is booming? Quebec City's financial health is strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
I'm pretty furious about this as well, the culture lobby as gone way to far. It's time to realize that hockey is part of our culture.
Perhaps but artists don't usually make $1M a year... You subsidize culture because it needs the money, NHL hockey is a very profitable buisiness if run properly and so shouldn't have to rely on government funding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
They won't put a team in QC....not in near future anyway. It's a small market...why go there? Passion is only one factor. Many other cities deserve it more than QC. I would have QC 4-5 on the list of potential sites
You know what's a small market? Phoenix and its 4 million population. But there's a team there... The size of the market isn't important, the revenue it can generate is. TV rights generate much more revenue in Canada than in new hockey markets, ticket sales are stronger and in all likelihood merchandise sales are also stronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
There's nothing there outside of passion for the game. No rink, no big money, no large market. Three main things Bettman and the majority of American owners are looking for. If a Canadian city gets a club it will be 1)Golden Horseshoe area 2) Winnipeg then Quebec City third. On top of that Canadian teams are not what Bettman and US Owners are going to be looking for in first place. Team in QC...never will happen in near future(10-15 years). There are 4-5 American cities ahead of QC in the pecking order. QC had a team before and couldn't make a go of it. Big financial issues from 1988 to '95. Why would owners looking to make big fast money vote to go back to a small market? Totally not going to happen
Your argumentation is full of holes:
- Gary Bettman supports a return to Canada if the opportunity arises. the NHLPA's Kelly has publicly stated on many occasions that another team in Canada is desirable. If the NHLPA wants it why wouldn't the BoG?
- Again, if Quebec City isn't an option for you why even consider Winnipeg, an even smaller market? don't bring up the arena issue because obviously this discussion hinges on the assumption quebec can get one. If they can't there's no use bringing it up.
- The attractiveness of sunbelt markets wasn't a short term one beyond the fact that in the late 90s they were the only ones capable of ponying up the expansion fee. Beyond that, they are long-term growth projects that make little to no money short term. A team in Canada would be the opposite: Immediate gain with the expansion fee and immediate revenues with limited opportunity for growth over the long-term. As such, Quebec is an attractive option in a league that has focused heavily on building for the future over the past 10 years, and could use some quick money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
We lost the team on a political confrontation and on the total lack of foresight of the PQ dreamers.

Montreal nearly lost the habs until the government jumped in to help Gillet buy.

Like I already said many times, if Ottawa is in the top 10 for revenues in the league, Quebec City would be equal or a little bit behind, we did beat them many times in revenues in the years both franchises co-existed.
There are also many things wrong in this post:
- "the lack of foresight of the PQ dreamers": What? I'm not sure what that means especially since Pariseau and Landry attempted to purchase the team from Aubut but he refused apparently stating that he wouldn't let the separatists save the team if he couldn't.
- I have no recollection of the government stepping in to save the Habs and I doubt Gillett received any subsidy of any kind. They may have bought shares of the team but that's not the same thing, and they may have facilitated his loan but again that's not the same thing.
- Comparisons between Ottawa and Quebec are tenuous at best: Ottawa has almost twice the population of Quebec and more people within a 1 hour drive than Quebec. The TV market may not be as strong but the fan base isn't the same. Comparing revenues between the 2 teams while they existed together is even worse: Ottawa was playing out of a 10 000 seat arena with a joke ownership group, not to mention the worse on-ice product the league had to offer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Totally not going to happen...you're just going in circles...you're not listening to common sense. Bettman and majority of owners don't want another team in Canada. And, even if they did come to Canada QC has to trump an offer like a Baisillie guy can put on the table. What the owners want is to move into major tv markets...to increase the popularity of the game and ended eventually in a major tv contract. Albeit many years from now. Coming to a Quebec City is the total opposite of what they are looking for. How can you convince the owners to give QC another team, move into a small market when the 10th biggest tv market in North America doesn't have an NHL team? See what they are building towards? It all boils down to money...they are trying to finanically take the game higher. I see a team in Houston, Vegas, KC maybe even Cleveland before Canada. Then Baillisie with his deep pockets, has a virtually lock for a team in Canada.
Please point out how you know Bettman doesn't want another team in Canada. Bringing another team to Canada (or even 2) doesn't preclude having a team in North America's 10th TV market. Right now the TV deals garnered by Canadian teams far outweigh the US deals. And while the potential for growth isn't the same, the league has to have balance between strong markets and growing markets. If Quebec has the capability of being a strong market, the NHL will look at it.

Ismellofhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-03-2008, 05:59 PM
  #37
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
Perhaps but artists don't usually make $1M a year... You subsidize culture because it needs the money, NHL hockey is a very profitable buisiness if run properly and so shouldn't have to rely on government funding.
I wasnt talking about the artists and I don't disagree about culture investment either, the problem comes from the balance in which the investments are done here in Quebec City. The government rarely/ever listen to the population and over-invest in culture to further the international port-folio of the city. (All museums, little to no budget for the artists.) To make it even worst, most of the investments are for projects that a minuscule proportion of the population ever use, it's not like a science museum or something we could be proud off, it's more and more arts galleries. At the end of the day, we love arts, but we just want more balance and more investments in projects that could benefit the actual population of this city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
There are also many things wrong in this post:
- "the lack of foresight of the PQ dreamers": What? I'm not sure what that means especially since Pariseau and Landry attempted to purchase the team from Aubut but he refused apparently stating that he wouldn't let the separatists save the team if he couldn't.
I won't go into details, but thats not what happened at all. Aubut declined a basic business coup like 100% of owner would have, it didnt made any sense. He also never made this thing a politic debate, the PQ did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
- I have no recollection of the government stepping in to save the Habs and I doubt Gillett received any subsidy of any kind. They may have bought shares of the team but that's not the same thing, and they may have facilitated his loan but again that's not the same thing.
Yes it's the same, lower-than-market interests is a form of subsidy. Plus Gillett wasn't buying without those extra loans, I call that stepping in to save the habs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ismellofhockey View Post
- Comparisons between Ottawa and Quebec are tenuous at best: Ottawa has almost twice the population of Quebec and more people within a 1 hour drive than Quebec. The TV market may not be as strong but the fan base isn't the same. Comparing revenues between the 2 teams while they existed together is even worse: Ottawa was playing out of a 10 000 seat arena with a joke ownership group, not to mention the worse on-ice product the league had to offer.
1.5m in a 1hr drive from Quebec, about 1.8m for Ottawa, thats pretty close to me. Quebec TV market is bigger considering the difference in market realities. Joke ownership group? This wasn't the case for Aubut and co? Ok I'll concede the on-ice product and arena size, still on a conceptual basis 2 nearly identical markets.


Last edited by SOLR: 06-03-2008 at 06:24 PM.
SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.