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Canadiens 2003 draft evaluation

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Old
06-03-2008, 12:43 PM
  #51
montreal
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OK! I surrender
lol It's all good, just glad to have some hockey discussions going on around here!

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06-03-2008, 12:51 PM
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okay so why is it so difficult for Montreal to assess the talent in the Q. Why can't they seem to find the players other teams find? Is it just bad luck?

Not a complaint...just trying to understand why they can find the gems elsewhere.

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06-03-2008, 01:10 PM
  #53
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okay so why is it so difficult for Montreal to assess the talent in the Q. Why can't they seem to find the players other teams find? Is it just bad luck?

Not a complaint...just trying to understand why they can find the gems elsewhere.
Well the scouting landscape has changed. There's been the changes in the NCAA rules, so now nhl teams can draft kids from the USHS/USHL/Canada Major Junior A etc... and they won't lose their NCAA eligibility. So that opens a very big door that in the past was all but closed. Instead of drafting Mike Komisarek and Chris Higgins after their freshman year, they would have been drafted out of the USNDTP and the USHS. It makes it riskier as your picking these players now that may not have faced a higher level of competition but you have to take those risks cause if not some other team will. This also means that there are a ton of more players to scout all over the place.

Add in more European markets. Not so long ago, drafting players directly from Belarus or Slovenia would have been a punchline, now it's seen as shrewd drafting (if it pans out)

Add a better US program. With the USHL becoming a tier-1 junior league in the US, as well as the rise of the USNDTP, and a stronger USHS system that has more kids in it from all over the country, including unheard of places like Texas, California etc...

And Major junior A, B are getting much more notice then in the past. BCHL, OJPHL are getting players drafted now, imo moreso to do with the changes in the rules to NCAA but I assume the talent level has increased although I have nothing to back that up with other then some discussions with an NCAA scout.

In the CHL you see different leagues have better years, the dub has produced a number of solid nhlers, this year it's the OHL that should be in the spotlight come draft day and the Q has had it's ups and downs. I personally can't really comment on the problems of the Q, I enjoy watching their games much more then the OHL and WHL, but to a degree it has had it's problems in certain draft years, producing quality nhlers. That said you can find gems in all leagues. The Habs truely have been finding them all over the place, I think that it's better that way, instead of focusing on just one area, or over focused on one area just because it's in your backyard.

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06-03-2008, 01:40 PM
  #54
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In your exchanges with scouts and pro hockey personnel, is there a knock on the Q players? I think they play a different style of hockey and they are sometimes not given the credit they deserve.

I agree with you on the drafting strategies. Seems like the US has replaced Europe in the sense you can take some risks with US players since you can retain their rights longer. It also seems to be attracting quite a few players that might have played in the Q.

Lastly, I think we may put too much emphasis on this "finding the hidden gem" scenario. I mean Detroit is credited with Datsyuk and Zetterberg as the flagship of their scouting prowess, without taking anything away from them I believe the guys picked by Detroit in the respective draft years were pretty much all busts. So how do you evaluate that draft. Seems like a lot of wasted picks. Were Dats and Zets all about scouting or all about luck...or a little of each.

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06-03-2008, 02:28 PM
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In your exchanges with scouts and pro hockey personnel, is there a knock on the Q players? I think they play a different style of hockey and they are sometimes not given the credit they deserve.

I agree with you on the drafting strategies. Seems like the US has replaced Europe in the sense you can take some risks with US players since you can retain their rights longer. It also seems to be attracting quite a few players that might have played in the Q.

Lastly, I think we may put too much emphasis on this "finding the hidden gem" scenario. I mean Detroit is credited with Datsyuk and Zetterberg as the flagship of their scouting prowess, without taking anything away from them I believe the guys picked by Detroit in the respective draft years were pretty much all busts. So how do you evaluate that draft. Seems like a lot of wasted picks. Were Dats and Zets all about scouting or all about luck...or a little of each.
I haven't heard anyone knock the Q, but as they say the proof is in the pudding. The Q will likely always produce quality nhlers but with the improvements in the US programs as well as other Euro countries starting to make a name for themseleves like Swiss/Denmark/Belarus etc... it means more pool of players to pick from, thus putting pressure on the leagues to continue to produce quality players for the NHL.

Part of the problem with the Q, has been the rep it has, as it used to be known for it's goalies and skilled forwards but had great trouble developing top notch defensemen not named Bourque (and I'm not talking about pre '80's cause I can't talk about what I didn't see) It seems they are starting to develop more defensemen but overall at times it seems to be behind the dub and OHL when it comes to the draft, although I got to think that to a degree it's a cycle as I said before, so some years will be down and other years will be at the top.

The US program has really improved, add to that they can hold their rights for longer as you say and you can see why their has been a spike in US players being drafted.

As for the Wings, they are where they are due to impressive drafting as well as other intangables. The '89 draft as well as getting Dat's and Zetter plus I guy I really like Kronwall, and there's Fransson/Hudler etc.. Point is they draft well no doubt about it.

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06-03-2008, 03:06 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
lol It's all good, just glad to have some hockey discussions going on around here!
I agree. I don't get to see a lot of junior or college hockey so your contribution is important to my overall hockey IQ. I always appreciate your posts.

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06-03-2008, 03:09 PM
  #57
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I agree. I don't get to see a lot of junior or college hockey so your contribution is important to my overall hockey IQ. I always appreciate your posts.
don't be blaming others for your IQ

BTW what's your take on Yann Sauve

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06-03-2008, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Artie View Post
don't be blaming others for your IQ

BTW what's your take on Yann Sauve
I've seen Yann play since he was Atom AA. he has always been a physically dominant player who was prone to mental mistakes. I would rate his hockey IQ to be below average and if you read some of the scouting reports, this is still an issue. If I compare Sauve to Sasha Pokuluk who I also saw in Presqu'Ile, Sasha was a much better player than Sauve.

I posted this previously - not sure if you saw it but when Sauve played Bantam AA first year, the first Trois Lacs year, he played on a team that has five players ranked in the Central Scouting List

- Marco Cousineau - Baie Comeau (goalie) 20th NA
- Yann Sauve St-John's (d-man) 29 NA
- Antoine Laganiere Deerfield Prep (forward) 126 NA
- Nick Pokuluk Northwood Prep(d-man) 133 NA
- Eric Filiou - Nanaimo BCHL - (forward) 155 NA

With all that talent, guess how many games they won that year. You guessed it, 0. I will let you guess who the coach was.

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06-03-2008, 07:37 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
I've seen Yann play since he was Atom AA. he has always been a physically dominant player who was prone to mental mistakes. I would rate his hockey IQ to be below average and if you read some of the scouting reports, this is still an issue. If I compare Sauve to Sasha Pokuluk who I also saw in Presqu'Ile, Sasha was a much better player than Sauve.

I posted this previously - not sure if you saw it but when Sauve played Bantam AA first year, the first Trois Lacs year, he played on a team that has five players ranked in the Central Scouting List

- Marco Cousineau - Baie Comeau (goalie) 20th NA
- Yann Sauve St-John's (d-man) 29 NA
- Antoine Laganiere Deerfield Prep (forward) 126 NA
- Nick Pokuluk Northwood Prep(d-man) 133 NA
- Eric Filiou - Nanaimo BCHL - (forward) 155 NA

With all that talent, guess how many games they won that year. You guessed it, 0. I will let you guess who the coach was.
Wasn't it RC

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06-03-2008, 07:43 PM
  #60
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okay so why is it so difficult for Montreal to assess the talent in the Q. Why can't they seem to find the players other teams find? Is it just bad luck?

Not a complaint...just trying to understand why they can find the gems elsewhere.
too much pressure on french kids that are drafted by the Habs...so the ones we do get, usually disappoint us...

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06-03-2008, 08:54 PM
  #61
Artie
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
too much pressure on french kids that are drafted by the Habs...so the ones we do get, usually disappoint us...
I was more interested in why we laways seem to miss the guys the other teams get.

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