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Why isn't German hockey bigger?

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05-25-2008, 02:04 PM
  #51
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I agree that success brings attention. Attention will bring more players. More players will bring better players and so on.

Do you feel that success has to be on the national level or could the success of a club team say Eisbaren Berlin in the new champions league help raise the profile of hockey in Germany.

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05-27-2008, 07:53 PM
  #52
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Heres my 2 cents about the DEL league from what Ive seen.

Im from Buffalo, NY so I get top level NHL talent when I goto see games downtown. I also am only a short drive from top Canadian junior hockey jsut over the border.

Ive seen 2 international games. Saw a playoff Swiss league game where the talent level was very mediocre at best in my opinion. Lots of unpolished players. But I was amazed at the buzz around the game there. Alot of TV coverage of the playoffs at a bar my friend and I went to. So Swiss seems to have the culture for the sport but no the talent.

Then we watched Frankfurt at Iglostadt (maybe just me but the ERC arena didnt seem Olympic size?). I will be honest, it was a very fun game to watch. There was plenty of flow, good passing, good chances, decent hits, not many. So I left with the impression that the DEL league was far and away better than the Swiss league and better than some of the AHL games Ive seen. So if the DEL was anything like that game I saw, its surely moving up the world hockey ladder as far as talent goes.

I wear the Bellisimo ERC jersey I bought there as a souviner when I play back in Buffalo. I get asked if its a Russian jersey all the time. I happily say its German

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05-30-2008, 08:18 AM
  #53
Rafik Soliman
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You can not judge based on two games you saw.

I'd say Switzerland has the more skilled league since it's not so phisical. The DEL is the exact opposit...

That's my oppinion and I saw way more DEL and Swiss National League Games than just one...

But I think both countries have the same problem, that is called Soccer. Germany is a soccer nation and so is Switzerland. Although we have more succes in Hockey than we have in Soccer, but that's probably of the different system FIFA/UEFA and IIHF have...

In Switzerland Hockey is getting more popular every year, but it gets also more expensiv every year which is also a slow down.... Don't know how it is in Germany, but I asume it's about the same!?

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05-30-2008, 08:35 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crackster View Post
You can not judge based on two games you saw.

I'd say Switzerland has the more skilled league since it's not so phisical. The DEL is the exact opposit...

That's my oppinion and I saw way more DEL and Swiss National League Games than just one...

But I think both countries have the same problem, that is called Soccer. Germany is a soccer nation and so is Switzerland. Although we have more succes in Hockey than we have in Soccer, but that's probably of the different system FIFA/UEFA and IIHF have...

In Switzerland Hockey is getting more popular every year, but it gets also more expensiv every year which is also a slow down.... Don't know how it is in Germany, but I asume it's about the same!?
Ill take your word for it as you live in Zurich, and I havent seen much but I find it hard to believe the overall flow and skill of Swiss hockey is anywhere as good as DEL. People generally tell me that DEL is also better and Swiss is poor. So I try to put together 2 and 2.

I saw ZSC play Kloten in the playoffs this year and the players have no shots. They skate well but showed no moves or shot, especially wristers.

When I saw the DEL league regular season, I saw lots of good flow, nice shots, and a general feel for having saw better players.

But like you said, I only saw just 1-2 games, but if anything Id assume the DEL is a bit better. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Getting back to Swiss hockey I still am very impressed at the TV coverage I saw in a bar after that Barnsley/Chelsea upset finished.

And the attendence for hockey in Switzlerand seems very healthy, especially Bern which we couldnt get a ticket to that next night.

Either way the grwoth of the game cant be overlooked in general.

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06-02-2008, 04:34 AM
  #55
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Well what you have to take into account when you compare the DEL and the Swiss league is the factor soccer and the geographic positioning!

Of course soccer outdoes hockey in both nations but Switzerland is just way more suitable for hockey than Germany is. The overall condition is better. It is no wonder most German hockey teams are located in the south - closer to Switzerland. When I say that don't take me wrong with the DEL. The DEL has teams all over Germany, not necessarily in the south. But that is due to a completely different factor! MONEY! The DEL is pretty heavy when it comes down to the financial aspect. Other teams in Germany who might be able to join the league due to their great athletic performances just can not do it cause they can not lift the heavy financial burdens of the DEL.

The same principal is happening in Switzerland. Teams deny joining the higher league due to the financial expectations. This is sad and goes in my point of view against the sportsmanship!

Well, to which league is better. I see them about even. Both put a lot of money into it and each year the team exchange players on an even level and when they do play (Spengler Cup) it usually is quite close.

Where I might see a little advantage for the DEL is that it is more corrupt with our nice Mr. Tripcke at the top. Therefore he will always find methods to lure incredibly good players, coaches and so on to the league and try to push the level even higher, ruining all of Germany's future perspectives by giving youngsters basically no high level playing ground.

Oh boy,
sorry when this sounded a little anti DEL, but it is The league sucks in itself as all the teams are too caught up with themselves instead of caring about anything else of a national hockey situation. But what am I saying..of course there are some exceptions but those are very few.

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06-02-2008, 09:35 PM
  #56
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I realize this forum is for ice hockey talk but if you want to grow the game you have to introduce youth to the sport.

Ice Hockey is expensive but street hockey is not.
Grab a stick $15 -20 bucks, 3 tennis balls $1.00, rocks for nets and 10 kids and have a street hockey game, introducing them to the game is cheap, once they enjoy playing the game, kids will want to try ice hockey. Street/ball hockey is king in Canada.

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06-03-2008, 03:36 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zingoni View Post
Well what you have to take into account when you compare the DEL and the Swiss league is the factor soccer and the geographic positioning!

Of course soccer outdoes hockey in both nations but Switzerland is just way more suitable for hockey than Germany is. The overall condition is better. It is no wonder most German hockey teams are located in the south - closer to Switzerland. When I say that don't take me wrong with the DEL. The DEL has teams all over Germany, not necessarily in the south. But that is due to a completely different factor! MONEY! The DEL is pretty heavy when it comes down to the financial aspect. Other teams in Germany who might be able to join the league due to their great athletic performances just can not do it cause they can not lift the heavy financial burdens of the DEL.

The same principal is happening in Switzerland. Teams deny joining the higher league due to the financial expectations. This is sad and goes in my point of view against the sportsmanship!

Well, to which league is better. I see them about even. Both put a lot of money into it and each year the team exchange players on an even level and when they do play (Spengler Cup) it usually is quite close.

Where I might see a little advantage for the DEL is that it is more corrupt with our nice Mr. Tripcke at the top. Therefore he will always find methods to lure incredibly good players, coaches and so on to the league and try to push the level even higher, ruining all of Germany's future perspectives by giving youngsters basically no high level playing ground.

Oh boy,
sorry when this sounded a little anti DEL, but it is The league sucks in itself as all the teams are too caught up with themselves instead of caring about anything else of a national hockey situation. But what am I saying..of course there are some exceptions but those are very few.
A good comparison regarding the Germany vs Switzerland debate would be USA vs Sweden (at a lower level of course). While Germany is comparable to the US (hockey in the shadow of other sports apart from some areas with a hockey tradition, but the country is still competitive because it is populated and rich enough to have an important hockey playing population), Switzerland is more like Sweden (smaller country but hockey more popular all over the place compared to other sports ).

Now regarding the NLA vs DEL issue. So far, the number of import players allowed in the DEL pretty much worked against the league. While it allows DEL teams to field impressive fourth lines, having team salaries spread over that many players instead of a few top players and some cheap local guys opened the door to many average AHLers. In the same time, the four imports limit in the Swiss league allowed NLA teams to field some top European leagues guys, while the Swiss playing on the second and third lines were not worse than many DEL imports. Overall, I'll say that top line talent is what put the NLA ahead of the DEL.

That being said, lately, some new factors (emphasis on skill in the NHL, financial power of the Russian league, new TV contract in Sweden allowing SEL teams to retain the best local players) have made it harder for NLA teams to attract top imports, and it wouldn't surprise me to see both league on par in the near future, if that's not already the case, though I would need to watch more DEL games to have a more precise opinion.


Last edited by stv11: 06-04-2008 at 08:49 AM.
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Old
06-04-2008, 07:57 AM
  #58
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheZodiac View Post
I realize this forum is for ice hockey talk but if you want to grow the game you have to introduce youth to the sport.

Ice Hockey is expensive but street hockey is not.
Grab a stick $15 -20 bucks, 3 tennis balls $1.00, rocks for nets and 10 kids and have a street hockey game, introducing them to the game is cheap, once they enjoy playing the game, kids will want to try ice hockey. Street/ball hockey is king in Canada.
I'll take this a bit further..... as much as Germany can't seem to remove itself from spots 8-14 in ice hockey, it is a pretty strong country in inline hockey. Whether with the puck or with the orange ball, Germany has some well-established leagues and their teams tend to do quite well at international tournaments.

In the league here that uses a ball, all you have to do is watch a couple of the 4 or 5 best teams in Germany play against each other to see that this is a sport that can't simply be dominated by ice hockey players. It's a game of it's own and the skills necessary for it are quite different.

As someone who's been playing various forms of roller hockey since the 80ies, I've been SHOCKED at the development of the game here in Germany in this decade alone.

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Old
06-04-2008, 08:04 AM
  #59
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stv11 View Post
A good comparison regarding the Germany vs Switzerland debate would be USA vs Sweden (at a lower level of course). While Germany is comparable to the US (hockey in the shadow of other sports apart from some areas with a hockey tradition, but the country is still competitive because it is populated and rich enough to have an important hockey playing population), Switzerland is more like Sweden (smaller country but hockey more popular all over the place compared to other sports ).

Now regarding the NLA vs DEL issue. So far, the number of import players allowed in the DEL pretty much worked against the league. While it allows DEL teams to field impressive fourth lines, having team salaries spread over that many players instead of a few top players and some cheap local guys opened the door to many average AHLers. In the same time, the four imports limit in the Swiss league allowed NLA teams to field some top European leagues guys, while the Swiss playing in the second and third lines were not worse than many DEL imports. Overall, I'll say that top line talent is what put the NLA ahead of the DEL.

That being said, lately, some new factors (emphasis on skill in the NHL, financial power of the Russian league, new TV contract in Sweden allowing SEL teams to retains the best local players) have made it harder for NLA teams to attract top imports, and it wouldn't surprise me to see both league on par in the near future, if that's not already the case, though I would need to watch more DEL games to have a more precise opinion.
Good take on this!

When it comes to the foreigners in the DEL, one thing the league hasn't really been able to do very consistently is find the types of players who really bring fans out of their seats.

To a degree, a guy like Pat Lebeau was able to do this, but as good as some foreigners have been (see i.e. Sarno, Walker, Regehr), fans here simply appreciate what Germans like Goc, Hock, Wolf have to offer.

At the end of the day, Germany is still hoping to have a first league where the teams will only be able to license 6 or 7 foreigners. It won't be easy and will of course serve to have especially the Oberliga (the 3rd league) really facing existential questionmarks.

Then again, there's NO DOUBT that the countries where foreigners are limited definitely have a better pool of players to choose from for their international squads.

And believe it or not, this whole question of foreign players has wormed its way in the soccer scene here too, where 1. Bundesliga teams currently consist of pretty much as many foreigners as actual Germans - something once unheard of.

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