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Old
06-04-2008, 09:53 PM
  #1
Whoot Whoot
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In Sports: Defense > Offense

I think this point is forgotten in the modern age of sports. This year's major championships

Giants Win
Redwings Win

Giants are built around defense
Redwings - #1 in the NHL in D this year

Take the Yankees as a good example. Tons of offense no pitching = 500 team when they were picked to win the division.

If you have good consistent defense, the pieces always seem to fall into place.

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06-04-2008, 09:54 PM
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Offense sells tickets.

Defense wins championships.

Could not be more true.

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06-04-2008, 09:56 PM
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Yep, defense always wins.

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06-04-2008, 09:58 PM
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Good thing we're building from the goal out.

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06-04-2008, 10:04 PM
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Defense is where its at.

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06-04-2008, 10:08 PM
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Trxjw
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Staal - JBo or bust?

I do agree though.

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06-04-2008, 10:11 PM
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Yea, the Red Wings play a very solid team defense.

However, their offense is overwhelming.

You CAN NOT win solely on defense, the Rangers are a perfect example of this.

If you can't score, you can't win. Even if you play all the suffocating defense you want.

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06-04-2008, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Yea, the Red Wings play a very solid team defense.

However, their offense is overwhelming.

You CAN NOT win solely on defense, the Rangers are a perfect example of this.

If you can't score, you can't win. Even if you play all the suffocating defense you want.
Our defense was nothing to write home about. Our offense couldn't complete a pass when it mattered. This team still needs a lot of work. Staal can be a godsend for our blue line very soon though. Let's just hope he's the real deal, and I really think he is. We still will need another #1 though. Roszival hasn't impressed me at all season, and I can't see this team going deep with him playing as many minutes as he does.

Detroit is about 3 steps up from this team. They have pretty much the perfect team. The only criticism I can give is that they should have finished this series in game 5. The Stanley Cup was in the darn building and their fans were screaming, and they couldn't pot one in 2+ OT's. Sure made it interesting

Congrats to Detroit. They deserved it big time

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06-04-2008, 10:40 PM
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Our defense was nothing to write home about. Our offense couldn't complete a pass when it mattered. This team still needs a lot of work. Staal can be a godsend for our blue line very soon though. Let's just hope he's the real deal, and I really think he is. We still will need another #1 though. Roszival hasn't impressed me at all season, and I can't see this team going deep with him playing as many minutes as he does.

Detroit is about 3 steps up from this team. They have pretty much the perfect team. The only criticism I can give is that they should have finished this series in game 5. The Stanley Cup was in the darn building and their fans were screaming, and they couldn't pot one in 2+ OT's. Sure made it interesting

Congrats to Detroit. They deserved it big time
like i said id rather sign mara and try to snag markov out of russia, he may not be a number 1, but hed make our d tougher and we neeed that. imagine having a guy like kronwall. markov is that type of player.

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06-05-2008, 09:32 AM
  #10
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I always thought the hardest and most important things to fill are goalie #1 and defensemen #2, good forwards are a dime a dozen.

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06-05-2008, 09:39 AM
  #11
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the red wings might be the best defensive team in hockey but they sure can drum up some offense. the puck possession game they play is amazing to watch and as of last nights cup win seems to be pretty effective.

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06-05-2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Good thing we're building from the goal out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Staal - JBo or bust?

I do agree though.
Defense isn't just for defensemen. It's a team thing.

What made Detroit so damn impressive is their best offensive players are excellent defensive players — Lidstrom and Zetterberg namely.

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06-05-2008, 09:42 AM
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hence the reason i want the rangers to spend whatever money they have this offseason on some higher-end defenseman....they need replacements who are better than backman, malik, rozsival and mara......

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06-05-2008, 09:45 AM
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You don't need a great defense, but a good one thats committed to playing a tight checking game and forwards who are down with that program as well.

This is why you don't trade a kid like Marc Staal in a package for the latest superstar scorer thats rumored to be on the block. With Crosby, Malkin, Parise, Richards in our division Marc Staal should be on our blueline for 10-15 years.

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06-05-2008, 10:12 AM
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broadwayblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Defense isn't just for defensemen. It's a team thing.

What made Detroit so damn impressive is their best players are excellent defensive players Lidstrom and Zetterberg namely.
That's true, but it still helps when you have a Vezina calibre goalie and/or a Norris Trophy winner on the squad.

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06-05-2008, 10:14 AM
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Detroit's D totally shut down the Pitt PP the KILLED us

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06-05-2008, 10:21 AM
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On the flip side...

you cannot win a game if you don't score. A great defensive team can still lose because they don't score. The Red Wings did have the best goals for average in the playoffs. In the regular season, they were third. It's a great mix.

But I think it's also semantics. If you score and don't give up points, you win. A great defense needs to lead to very good to great offense to still win the Cup. In essence, you need a balance of good defense and good offense. In hockey, you need a good system whereby the puck moves crisply and the transition game is effective.

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06-05-2008, 10:26 AM
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you cannot win a game if you don't score. A great defensive team can still lose because they don't score. The Red Wings did have the best goals for average in the playoffs. In the regular season, they were third. It's a great mix.

But I think it's also semantics. If you score and don't give up points, you win. A great defense needs to lead to very good to great offense to still win the Cup. In essence, you need a balance of good defense and good offense. In hockey, you need a good system whereby the puck moves crisply and the transition game is effective.
IMO, the better your defense is the better your offense will be....the more confidence the offense has in the defense the higher they can stay which causes more offense....the less time of possession for the opposing team causes your team to have more chances....also, a good defenseman normally can create good offense with a well-timed pass or by keeping the puck in on the blue-line...i just think the rangers need to upgrade their defense in order to increase their defense....when your best offensive players are your centers, and they have to go below the goal-line to fight for the puck because the defenseman are getting beat and cant pin their guys they get tired which cuases less offense and the fact they have to throw the puck up the boards to the wingers normally causing 2 on 2's, not the odd-man rushes that so many teams seem to get against them

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06-05-2008, 10:30 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Our defense was nothing to write home about. Our offense couldn't complete a pass when it mattered. This team still needs a lot of work. Staal can be a godsend for our blue line very soon though. Let's just hope he's the real deal, and I really think he is. We still will need another #1 though. Roszival hasn't impressed me at all season, and I can't see this team going deep with him playing as many minutes as he does.

Detroit is about 3 steps up from this team. They have pretty much the perfect team. The only criticism I can give is that they should have finished this series in game 5. The Stanley Cup was in the darn building and their fans were screaming, and they couldn't pot one in 2+ OT's. Sure made it interesting

Congrats to Detroit. They deserved it big time
I think you are confusing team defense with defensemen.

TEAM defense is what wins.

When all 5 skaters on the ice play as a unit.

Sure, it helps to have a guy to knock someone into oblivion when they cut into the scoring lanes.

However, none of that matters if you can't put the puck in the net.

The Rangers were one of the best defensive teams in the league this year. 4th GAA.

However, the Rangers were one of the worst offensive teams. 25th GFA.

Detroit was at the top of the league in BOTH. 3rd GFA. 1st GAA. That is why they won.

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06-05-2008, 10:30 AM
  #20
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you cannot win a game if you don't score. A great defensive team can still lose because they don't score. The Red Wings did have the best goals for average in the playoffs. In the regular season, they were third. It's a great mix.

But I think it's also semantics. If you score and don't give up points, you win. A great defense needs to lead to very good to great offense to still win the Cup. In essence, you need a balance of good defense and good offense. In hockey, you need a good system whereby the puck moves crisply and the transition game is effective.
but if you can hold a great offense in check, as Detroit did, you may only need to score a goal or two to win...and even 2nd rate offensive squads have the ability to net a couple on any given night. kind of like the Devils.

that said, i didn't realize we finished 25th in the league in goal scoring. 2.5gg. ouch. i knew we had problems, but didn't think it was that bad. we really can't afford to lose Shanny, Straka, AND Jagr or it's gonna be a long season next year.


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06-05-2008, 10:43 AM
  #21
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broadwayblue...

I understand that, but to be honest, there are so many ways to spin this. If a team possesses the puck more than the other team (which can be considered offense), that team should have a better chance of winning (there are other things to consider obviously, but like in football, if you have the ball for 40 of 60 minutes, you stand a chance of winning - that possession can be great defense - it can also be a great running game).

If you keep that great player in check, you still need to score that goal. You're saying scoring a goal or two to win - I don't think any NHL team in recent history has done much while averaging less than 2 goals per game. I don't think there are a heck of a lot of teams that aren't in the top 15 in scoring that went very far in the playoffs. So defense and offense go hand in hand. The defense needs to lead to offense (i.e., the transition game). Look at Detroit. They stifled in the offensive zone and moved the puck quickly the other way and quickly generated scoring chances. Does Detroit win the game solely by playing great defense and not having the ability to deftly move the puck out of the zone and create offense? I doubt it.

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06-05-2008, 10:44 AM
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broadwayblue...

the Rangers may've already lost Shanny, Straka and Jagr - to another year of wear and tear and diminishing skills. I do agree that their production needs to be found somehow next season, because the offense cannot get any worse unless this team is going to take a couple steps back.

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06-05-2008, 10:48 AM
  #23
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Pukka...

funny enough, as it relates to the Rangers, I think it was defense that ultimately killed them in the playoffs. They score four goals once against the Pens and three goals twice - and came out 1w and 2l. If you score that many in the playoffs, you need to come out with a better record. Sure they could've done better than zero goals and two goals in the other two games, but when you score four goals on the road in game one and lose, you're in trouble.

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06-05-2008, 11:01 AM
  #24
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Defense isn't just for defensemen. It's a team thing.

What made Detroit so damn impressive is their best offensive players are excellent defensive players Lidstrom and Zetterberg namely.
I agree, SBOB. I also feel we are moving in that direction as team. Dubi, Gomez and Drury are very solid defensive players, as is Avery (generally). Many of our prospects are great two-way players as well. Anisimov, Korpikoski and Bourret are all shaping up to be solid two-way players.

I do, however, feel that our defense is the weakest link in our defensive system. There is something to be said when a guy can step in for his rookie campaign and be the best blue-liner in your squad by the end of the year. Not to take anything away from Staal, I feel he is going to be one of the leagues top d-men in years to come, but our blue-line falls short of most cup contenders by a considerable margin.

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06-05-2008, 11:16 AM
  #25
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I agree, SBOB. I also feel we are moving in that direction as team. Dubi, Gomez and Drury are very solid defensive players, as is Avery (generally). Many of our prospects are great two-way players as well. Anisimov, Korpikoski and Bourret are all shaping up to be solid two-way players.

I do, however, feel that our defense is the weakest link in our defensive system. There is something to be said when a guy can step in for his rookie campaign and be the best blue-liner in your squad by the end of the year. Not to take anything away from Staal, I feel he is going to be one of the leagues top d-men in years to come, but our blue-line falls short of most cup contenders by a considerable margin.
i agree on staal...he was very good, however looking around at most teams they are deeper and have better top-end defenseman then the rangers do...i have said it before, i think getting a puck mover on the first pairing will make a HUGE difference in not only the defense but also the offense as the forwards can break sooner to go on offense.....also, i think they need to get a solid 2nd or 3rd pairing defenseman that can hit and clear the crease as opposing players were allowed to set-up shop in front of the goal last year and that hurt hank's stats and the teams record

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