HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Sather

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-05-2008, 10:19 AM
  #1
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
Sather

Does anyone else think that sather has seemed to stockpile assets over the past 3-4 years....and many of them seem redundant....

even at the trade deadlin last year he pretty much added to it instead of trying to offload a contract like malik when he wasnt going to play anyways....

i just dont understand, unless he has something up his sleeve, like a trade for some high-quality player, it seems like he has too many assets...

centers:
gomez
drury
dubinsky
anisimov
betts
moore

wingers:
jagr
avery
sjostrom
orr
hollweg
prucha
callahan
dawes
bourret
jessiman
byers
korpikoski
moore

defenseman:
staal
tyutin
girardi
backman
sauer
potter
baranka


last year there were even more players on those lists with shanny, straka, malik, mara, struds, rozsival.....it just seems like he isnt great at working with the cap....he had the ability to not allow shanny's contract to go over to next year and he just added to the cap by getting backman instead of trying to kee it open for the next year....

what do you think?....any ideas or comments are good, any other questionable things sather does that i am missing?

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 10:21 AM
  #2
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
We were rebuilding, of course he's going to stockpile assets... Now that we're nearly done he can make a few trades.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 10:28 AM
  #3
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
We were rebuilding, of course he's going to stockpile assets... Now that we're nearly done he can make a few trades.
i just fee llike they are all repetitive....all 3rd or 4th liners....and with the way he handled the cap last year makes me worry about the future

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 10:44 AM
  #4
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
There is no such thing as having "too many assets"

Many of these so called assets will never get more than a cup of coffee with the Rangers. Its all about stockpiling as much talent as possible and hoping that just some of them become NHL'ers. The chances of stumbling upon a top 6 forward are even smaller.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 10:52 AM
  #5
I Am Chariot
One shift at a time
 
I Am Chariot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 14,523
vCash: 500
Theres no question Sather and Maloney were rebuilding.

The Shanny signing was a no brainer. Hes a great leader, hes a HOF and he had something left. Sheeet the wings were STILL giving Shanny props last night in the post game for his leadership.


If they REALLY believed they could win it all last year they never would of broke up the 1st line Straka - Nylander - Jagr.

Sather has a plan for what he wants the team to look like. Its probably getting closer but not yet....

Hes been awesomely patient and a tough negotiator. He's come up ontop of every trade, aquisition since the lockout imo. Even Ozo was worth the shot imo.

Could be time to see a bigger trade though. How long can they string Prucha along? And the D man the Rangers really need is not available in Free Agency this summer.

Package assets for an upgrade on D

__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
I Am Chariot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:22 AM
  #6
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Theres no question Sather and Maloney were rebuilding.

The Shanny signing was a no brainer. Hes a great leader, hes a HOF and he had something left. Sheeet the wings were STILL giving Shanny props last night in the post game for his leadership.


If they REALLY believed they could win it all last year they never would of broke up the 1st line Straka - Nylander - Jagr.

Sather has a plan for what he wants the team to look like. Its probably getting closer but not yet....

Hes been awesomely patient and a tough negotiator. He's come up ontop of every trade, aquisition since the lockout imo. Even Ozo was worth the shot imo.

Could be time to see a bigger trade though. How long can they string Prucha along? And the D man the Rangers really need is not available in Free Agency this summer.

Package assets for an upgrade on D
I can't say that PHX/NYR trade at the deadline this year really helped us out that much. I think Sather really mismanaged Montoya as an asset and I don't see Sjostrom as much of an upgrade over Hossa to be honest. Sjostrom is faster, but Hossa is more physical, and ultimately isn't that what you want from 4th liners? A physical/grinder mentality with some offensive ability?

I do agree that it's time for an upgrade on the blueline. Slats has a ton of depth players in this organization and he knows it. It's certainly possible he'll make a play for either a young d-man like Suter or possibly Kaberle if the Leafs go prospect/pick crazy.

The reverse side of that is the UFA pool for forwards is even worse than it is for d-men. I think the more likely move is Slats will make some noise by getting a scoring winger for Gomez and sign one or two FA d-men like Hainsey, Liles, Streit, Smith, Orpik or Redden. I imagine he'll inquire about Stuart as well, but the chance of him leaving Detroit is pretty much non-existant.

If Sather does go after a big name winger for Gomez, I'd imagine the 'level' of that winger will depend on Jagr and Avery's contracts.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:28 AM
  #7
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
on our defense instead of trading for other teams d like suter, weber, morris ect

id rather have sather be paitent and let sang earn it during the training camp. i know Sang is young but other dman have made the NHL as a 20 year old. heck marc vlasic of san jose made the NHL as a 19 year old so it can happen. if sang has a good camp why not have him on the team. put staal and sang together in preseason and see what happens. u dont know unless u try.

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:30 AM
  #8
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,863
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
on our defense instead of trading for other teams d like suter, weber, morris ect

id rather have sather be paitent and let sang earn it during the training camp. i know Sang is young but other dman have made the NHL as a 20 year old. heck marc vlasic of san jose made the NHL as a 19 year old so it can happen. if sang has a good camp why not have him on the team. put staal and sang together in preseason and see what happens. u dont know unless u try.
If he earns it he earns it. But you can't count on him earning a spot. You don't not improve the team because a kid may make the team.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:33 AM
  #9
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If he earns it he earns it. But you can't count on him earning a spot. You don't not improve the team because a kid may make the team.
true u gotta have a backup plan, this is why sather should not overpay for the any dman just incase if a kid plays well enough in camp to make the team. i know kasper was signed b4 the lockout but look what happened. say we sign commodore to a big contract 5.5 per year 3 year contract and he becomes aaron ward (problems in the dressing room) we gotta be able to move that contract as well.

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:40 AM
  #10
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,863
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
true u gotta have a backup plan, this is why sather should not overpay for the any dman just incase if a kid plays well enough in camp to make the team. i know kasper was signed b4 the lockout but look what happened. say we sign commodore to a big contract 5.5 per year 3 year contract and he becomes aaron ward (problems in the dressing room) we gotta be able to move that contract as well.
I have no idea what you're talking about here. You seem to contradict yourself in the first sentence.

Every FA signing and every trade comes with a risk. How do you know that a kid won't become a lockerroom disturbance?

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:41 AM
  #11
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
true u gotta have a backup plan, this is why sather should not overpay for the any dman just incase if a kid plays well enough in camp to make the team. i know kasper was signed b4 the lockout but look what happened. say we sign commodore to a big contract 5.5 per year 3 year contract and he becomes aaron ward (problems in the dressing room) we gotta be able to move that contract as well.
If we gave Commodore that contract I am gonna have something in common with this kitten.


TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:45 AM
  #12
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
If we gave Commodore that contract I am gonna have something in common with this kitten.

i actually started to laugh out loud when i saw that

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 11:46 AM
  #13
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCallahan43 View Post
on our defense instead of trading for other teams d like suter, weber, morris ect

id rather have sather be paitent and let sang earn it during the training camp. i know Sang is young but other dman have made the NHL as a 20 year old. heck marc vlasic of san jose made the NHL as a 19 year old so it can happen. if sang has a good camp why not have him on the team. put staal and sang together in preseason and see what happens. u dont know unless u try.
Like SBOB said, the problem is you're waiting to see how a kid is going to develop, meanwhile your team is getting beat because you haven't filled the void.

The benefit of trading for a guy like Suter or Weber is that Nashville is so stacked on D, that the chance you'd have to send a D-man back the other way is pretty slim. They might legitimately be interested in Anisimov as a potential center for Kovalchuk, you never know.

Any trade that involves potential leaving, and established talent coming back is a good move. Its when you start dealing potential for filler players that you get in trouble and start regretting your decisions.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 12:11 PM
  #14
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i just fee llike they are all repetitive....all 3rd or 4th liners....and with the way he handled the cap last year makes me worry about the future
He didn't draft them all to be 3rd or 4th liners unless he is the most inept GM to ever participate in any sport. I think he's a few notches higher than that, bordering on mediocre.

The problem is that a lot of his intended 1st liners are becoming 3rd and 4th liners instead.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 12:19 PM
  #15
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
He didn't draft them all to be 3rd or 4th liners unless he is the most inept GM to ever participate in any sport. I think he's a few notches higher than that, bordering on mediocre.

The problem is that a lot of his intended 1st liners are becoming 3rd and 4th liners instead.
i know....but looking around the league, it seems like too many are......look around the league and it seems like the rangers have the smallest amount of high-end talent...which is weird considering all of those picks they had from before the lockout.....

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 12:35 PM
  #16
squishy
Registered User
 
squishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The problem is that a lot of his intended 1st liners are becoming 3rd and 4th liners instead.
Or that fans aren't being nearly as patient as they need to be to wait and see what the kids actually turn out to be before dismissing them all as 3rd and 4th liners, before many have even stepped on NHL ice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i know....but looking around the league, it seems like too many are......look around the league and it seems like the rangers have the smallest amount of high-end talent...which is weird considering all of those picks they had from before the lockout.....
The grass is always greener on the other side... Sports fans always think the assets other teams have are better than their own.

squishy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 02:11 PM
  #17
TomLaidlaw
Registered User
 
TomLaidlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Transylvania
Country: Romania
Posts: 3,177
vCash: 500
I am not sure I can get on Sather for his post lockout player development/drafting. Look what our system has produced for us since the lockout........

-A franchise goalie in Henrik.
-A top 2 line center in Dubinsky, who has future Captain type of personality.
-A solid 3rd line winger in Dawes who could potentially be a 2nd line winger.
-A solid 3rd line winger in Callahan.
-A solid winger in Prucha who scored 52 goals in his first two years before being pushed out of the lineup by Shanny.
-A solid 2nd pairing D-Man in Toots.
-A solid 2nd Pairing D-Man in Girardi.
-A potential superstar D-Man in Marc Staal.

That isn't bad.

Combine that with the guys we have in Hartford and Cherry in Russia and I can't really kill Sather for his player development/drafting. Have we developed an Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin type of player? No, but those guys are rare and you usually have to be drafting in the top 5 to nab one of them. It is possible to get on Sather for the Montoya pick but drafting Henrik negates that to me. We ended up with a franchise goalie just not the one we thought it would be.

The main gripe I have with Sather was the re-signing of Shanny and the Cullen trade that followed in order to fit Shanny.

TomLaidlaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 02:35 PM
  #18
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,486
vCash: 500
I agree they have done a great job at getting assets in and if they chose to trade a few for a proven player then fine

I like how things are ...............this FA group blows so having kids that can come up next yr is huge.............Byers, Moore, Korpikoski , Potter, Sanguinetti all have a shot at making this team

I agree with Prucha being pushed out by Shanny but not this year.....give him PP time with Dawes........Callahan should be a 3rd line checker and PK guy...............I also would like a 4th line of Sjostrom , Betts, Moore with Orr sitting most of the time.............Byers deserves in soon too

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 03:28 PM
  #19
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Or that fans aren't being nearly as patient as they need to be to wait and see what the kids actually turn out to be before dismissing them all as 3rd and 4th liners, before many have even stepped on NHL ice...
Or maybe you misread what I wrote. I was talking solely about those that have appeared in the NHL to date. It is my opinion that of those, the only one who has a real nice shot of making it is Dubinsky. His game constantly improved this year.

I have no opinion on Cherepanov or Anisimov or any others in the pipeline except for Jessiman who looks almost clueless when I've seen him. It would be a shocker to me if he ever makes it.

I hope Callahan, Dawes and Prucha prove me wrong but at least Callahan and Dawes have time to improve. Extremely doubtful that Prucha will ever reach anything worth having. He's got guts and some natural offensive instincts but he takes a pounding on almost every shift.

Callahan, for all of the hoopla about him, barely outscored Malik, while playing more games than him. At least that's how it was the last time I checked the stats during the season. Fans get carried away by anyone who isn't terrible when so little good has passed before their eyes for so long.

You've gotta understand that just saying the grass is always greener is nice but sometimes it is really greener. Scores of outstanding forwards have joined the NHL since the last impact Rangers forward came up. Finding a team that has developed less young talented forwards over the last 10 years might be next to impossible.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 03:40 PM
  #20
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,456
vCash: 500
Too many assets?

Currently Petr Prucha is this team's highest scoring signed winger and he didn't even play in the last couple months. I think Dawes is second and Callahan is third. There are three signed NHL-caliber defensemen (plus Backman) and I'm not sure anyone on the farm is trusted. Depth is a good thing in any event.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 03:45 PM
  #21
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
At some point our depth will be someone else's need, and I think that's the beauty in a long-term strategy like Slat's. Yes, we we scoff at the notion that Byers, Korp, or even Prucha maybe coveted by another team. but a team looks at their list of RFA & UFAs and realizes they may lose a bunch, then players like our depth/role players become a very important commodity around draft day.

Forechecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 03:49 PM
  #22
showjaxx
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 647
Edit: Wrong thread.

In my opinion Sather has done an above average job post-lockout. Of course he has made mistakes, but the good outways the bad in this case.

showjaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 04:24 PM
  #23
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Currently Petr Prucha is this team's highest scoring signed winger and he didn't even play in the last couple months. I think Dawes is second and Callahan is third. There are three signed NHL-caliber defensemen (plus Backman) and I'm not sure anyone on the farm is trusted. Depth is a good thing in any event.
i didnt mean too many assets....i just meant too many redundant assets....it seems like the rangers organization has about 20 players fighting over 3-6 spots on the lineup......that isnt a good thing IMO, i would rather space it out a bit have some who can fight for a couple spots and then have a bunch, like 5-8 fighting over the 3-4th lines.....i just see a lot of players who are similar in their skillsets is all i meant

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 04:33 PM
  #24
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,456
vCash: 500
20 players...

fighting for 5-6 spots is a good thing if you're talking about many of those players being legit NHLers/top six forwards/top four defensemen. It's not when they're a bunch of third liners and 7th defensemen.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-05-2008, 10:17 PM
  #25
JerseyRangers
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 1,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Or maybe you misread what I wrote. I was talking solely about those that have appeared in the NHL to date. It is my opinion that of those, the only one who has a real nice shot of making it is Dubinsky. His game constantly improved this year.

I have no opinion on Cherepanov or Anisimov or any others in the pipeline except for Jessiman who looks almost clueless when I've seen him. It would be a shocker to me if he ever makes it.

I hope Callahan, Dawes and Prucha prove me wrong but at least Callahan and Dawes have time to improve. Extremely doubtful that Prucha will ever reach anything worth having. He's got guts and some natural offensive instincts but he takes a pounding on almost every shift.

Callahan, for all of the hoopla about him, barely outscored Malik, while playing more games than him. At least that's how it was the last time I checked the stats during the season. Fans get carried away by anyone who isn't terrible when so little good has passed before their eyes for so long.

You've gotta understand that just saying the grass is always greener is nice but sometimes it is really greener. Scores of outstanding forwards have joined the NHL since the last impact Rangers forward came up. Finding a team that has developed less young talented forwards over the last 10 years might be next to impossible.
I especially like your last line. Lets really look at that.
Devil's -- Parise (wow that's really amazing)
Isles -- your kidding, right
Bruins -- Brad Boyes but not much else
Sabres -- Vanek, other than that, a bunch of 3rd liners
Maple Leafs -- again, not a thing
Thrashers -- since Kovalchuk what exactly have they done
Hurricanes -- ok Staal was a no brainer but who else
Panthers -- Horton is developing nicely, Olesz and Booth are still works in progress
Lightining -- here's a good one, since drafting Vinny they haven't really developed a solid forward

I could keep going but you get the picture. Other than teams that have gotten in the top 5, only Detriot, Philly and Anaheim have really done a very good job drafting (especially in the last 5 years). In the last 5 years we've added a stud goalie, a stud d-man and a strong center prospect. Not bad considering I don't think we've drafted anywhere near the top 5. If you want to draft like the Capitals, Hawks, or Pens then you got to really suck bad for a couple seasons to ensure that you get top 5 picks. If not, then its really a crapshot!

JerseyRangers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.