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Vaananen/Morris trade...looking back

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05-28-2004, 02:51 AM
  #26
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ill take my chances and judge it now - thumbs down. it will only get worse with time imo.

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05-28-2004, 02:58 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man
Apparently Scott Stevens has been "breaking down" since he was in his early 30's.
good point, cuz everyone is just like scott stevens?!? ive been to a lot of avs games - blake needs his stick or the boards to pull himself up. he playing in pain - this isnt a new development, he has looked like this the whole time he has been in CO. he obviously deserves credit for fighting through it, but i dont think he will be able to forever. my assessment wasnt about their ages numerically (im 32), just the way he looks tired. foote does as well. its wrong to depend on them for the long term, i dont think they will be there. if they were, it wont be in their present roles.

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05-28-2004, 04:43 AM
  #28
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If Ballard doesnt even sniff the NHL, then its a win for the Avs. (thats a remote possibilty but hey, it could happen)

Vaananen's overpowering defensive game will be much more valuable than Morris's offensive game, which can only progress so far. And actually Ossi is a good passer its just that the ice here is so small and with the trap he hardly gets to make the passes he did at the WJC/WC. But if Phoenix's top 3 continues on their development pace and doesnt plateu, they will be one of the better top 3s around the league. Tanabe's "Out of your seat" speed has been a welcome change here.

The draft is a total crap shoot, dont even try to make assumptions based off of it. At least Ballard has come to a point where you can make a logical conclusion as to his future.

Ossi is the better dman in this trade, and also younger.

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05-28-2004, 11:19 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierX
If Ballard doesnt even sniff the NHL, then its a win for the Avs. (thats a remote possibilty but hey, it could happen)

Vaananen's overpowering defensive game will be much more valuable than Morris's offensive game, which can only progress so far. And actually Ossi is a good passer its just that the ice here is so small and with the trap he hardly gets to make the passes he did at the WJC/WC. But if Phoenix's top 3 continues on their development pace and doesnt plateu, they will be one of the better top 3s around the league. Tanabe's "Out of your seat" speed has been a welcome change here.

The draft is a total crap shoot, dont even try to make assumptions based off of it. At least Ballard has come to a point where you can make a logical conclusion as to his future.

Ossi is the better dman in this trade, and also younger.
I agree with most of what you said. I just think that Vaananan is more limited offensively that you do. He ended up with 6 points this season. I realize that the ability doesn't necessarily translate directly into production, but OV was getting top 4 icetime, and it didn't translate into points. I guess I see OV as having Norstom potential w/ slightly more offense (which is a very good thing). I just think that Morris has the ability (he's still only 25) to turn into a bonified #1 d-man, whereas OV's more of a 3-4 type of guy.

Also agree with the draft being a total crap shoot. I realize that THN is a the preeminant source for any hockey related information, but I'd LOVE to see how they came up with a 47% chance at a 2nd round pick having an NHL career. I took a look at 5 or 6 years, and it maybe 25% of the players drafted 31-60 had solid NHL careers (not counting guys like Laflamme or Traverse).

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05-28-2004, 11:34 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan
I agree with most of what you said. I just think that Vaananan is more limited offensively that you do. He ended up with 6 points this season. I realize that the ability doesn't necessarily translate directly into production, but OV was getting top 4 icetime, and it didn't translate into points. I guess I see OV as having Norstom potential w/ slightly more offense (which is a very good thing). I just think that Morris has the ability (he's still only 25) to turn into a bonified #1 d-man, whereas OV's more of a 3-4 type of guy.
Derek Morris has alot of work to do both physically and defensively if he ever wants to become a #1 defenseman. He was much more physical for Calgary and Colorado before his orbital bone was cracked in half by David Ling. Ask anybody who watched the Avs and it was very apparent that Morris shied away from the physical aspect of the game after that incident. Once that visor came on, he has been starting to use his stick alot more than his body and when you have the solid physical make-up for D-Mo, that's a bad thing.

The pairing of Adam Foote and Karlis Skrastins is considered out shut-down pairing so Morris was paired with Rob Blake for most of the time. There is absolutely no contest as to whom is the better partner for Blake between Morris and Ossi Vaananen. Vaananen did everything we could have asked of him and beyond in the playoffs and he is _far_ superior defensively and physically to Morris.

I understand the point being made that Morris is better offensively, and he certainly is. However, John-Michael Liles passed Morris on the depth chart offensively this year, and Rob Blake is our number one guy for points from the blueline. When you have two guys like that, you'd prefer to have more defensive players throughout the rest of the corps. That's what Foote, Vaananen, Skrastins and Kurt Sauer all provide, and Bob Boughner provided in the playoffs.

I'd prefer to break it down to Vaananen and Morris alone, and then Chris Gratton and a 2nd versus Keith Ballard. For a team like Colorado, if you can add a 27 year old centerman who plays regularly on your club without subtracting something, it's a win, personally.

Vaananen =/< Morris
Gratton + 2nd >/= Ballard

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