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"...Pumping tax dollars into a new Edmonton arena is a non-starter"

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Old
06-05-2008, 08:31 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
As before I'll go on record as stating I want this new arena 100% financed. I want it big, I want it comfortable and I fully anticipate and support cost overuns of 30-40%.

Affordable housing..what does that even mean? I'm being honest, politicans throw it around as a catch all phrase to show how socially concerned they are about families but what the hell is affordable housing? More Canadians own homes than at any time in our history but for some reason we should all want to allocate public funds so the city can build row houses to sell at a reduced rate to 25 lucky families.

I'm tired of it, I'd rather the city invest in something at least 10-25% of the city will enjoy and that's a new arena.

And please don't have a plebiscite, number one rule regarding capital projects is that they will never, ever pass a public scrutiny test. There are a lot more non-hockey fan misers out ther than you can imagine.

And no I don't pay taxes in Edmonton which makes a 100% funded arena even more appealing.
There's another point that opponents keep conveniently omitting when they claim the new arena "will primarily benefit the rich owner of the Oilers."

The Oilers in a good playoff year would only use the facility for 50-55 dates a year. The rest of the year, Northlands, which is a wholly owned, arms length civic entity would receive profit from the other 150 or so event/days that the building is in use for such things as concerts, conventions, trade shows too large for the Convention Centre or rodeos.

I'd wager well over 50 percent of the population would visit the arena in any given year.

I wonder how many visit the Edmonton Art Gallery or Winspear....maybe 5 percent.

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06-05-2008, 08:35 PM
  #52
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Why not have the City finance it minus Katz' $100 million, and then allow the city to re-coup the $400 million + inflation + a little profit before handing it over to Katz???

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06-05-2008, 09:15 PM
  #53
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I think there aren't enough people looking at the long term costs involved in a new arena vs keeping Rexall. It's not all about 500M to be spent on a construction project that will take 5 or so years. That's only the first part of any comparison. What are the costs involved in fixing and maintaining Rexall ove a 20 year span vs that of building and maintaining a new building.

Rexall is having problems...this is already the second tiem I can remember the ice plant failing. I believe the last quote for renovating Rexall I saw was over the 150M mark. I heard the main cooling pipe was the main culprit this time, but that would mean an increase on top of that figure for digging up the concrete flooring to replace the pipe. Being that the buildings age means more repairs will need to be put into items down the road on top of the current repairs this is certainly a valid thing to look at. Say 200M to get Rexall up to the same level of operation it had in 1997, you're still looking at a building that has seen a good deal of wear and tear. Seating, staircases, entrance ways and exits, and older inefficeint technology will all add to long term costs over the costs of a new arena. For those who doubt old buildings run into problems I remember a certain baseball stadium whose roof was collapsing over some seating(seating was taped off for security reasons)...saw that on television and actually laughed thinking "How could they let it get this bad?" Are we on the same road to humiliation?

I don't have any figures as to what the repair costs of these items might be, but we all know construction gets more expensive over time not less expensive. I'd really like to see a full in depth analysis of projected costs of maintenance in Rexall over a longer duration than the next "fix er up" renovation to obtain a more accurate idea of the cost benefit to the city. It's quite likely the long term costs of Rexall could actually outweigh the long term costs of a new arena.

I deal with issues like this at work every day. When I quote out a repair to a customer I always compare it to cost of new so they can make an informed decision. When the repair to new cost ratio hits a certain percent you can't help but wonder if it's even logical to repair the item. This same approach needs to be taken in regards to the new arena. I mean would you rather pay 500M over 5 years for a new arena and a small amoutn(say 200M over 10 years) upkeep or potentiialy spend 800M renovating Rexall to keep it afloat over the next 15 years and not falling down on those in attendance for games, concerts, and events? I know where I would vote my tax dollars to go.

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Old
06-05-2008, 09:34 PM
  #54
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How many soapboxes does PJO need to stand on?

Major cities build infrastructure and that includes theatres, arenas, parks, bridges, roads. Period.

I'll take the Mod's comment of "if you don't like the thread, don't post" and apply to the arena situation. If you don't like the arena proposal, move to another city.

What other broken record do we need to play?

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06-05-2008, 10:03 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrOiler View Post
I'll take the Mod's comment of "if you don't like the thread, don't post" and apply to the arena situation. If you don't like the arena proposal, move to another city.
How long did it take for this point to be made? I second that-the arena's gonna happen whether people like it or not; don't like the city's plans? Move out.

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06-05-2008, 10:18 PM
  #56
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As much as I think that this topic is just a repeated borefest, telling someone to move from the city because they don't like a potential city policy is asinine. Nothing is more depressing then hearing Americans say, "If you don't like Bush, MOVE TO CANADA"...For context sake, now you know what you guys sound like.

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06-05-2008, 10:43 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
As much as I think that this topic is just a repeated borefest, telling someone to move from the city because they don't like a potential city policy is asinine. Nothing is more depressing then hearing Americans say, "If you don't like Bush, MOVE TO CANADA"...For context sake, now you know what you guys sound like.
Its hyperbole but if an arena is going to get an individual this riled up, then what else can you say?

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06-05-2008, 11:01 PM
  #58
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if people cant realize that edmonton's downtown sucks and that we need to get over this small town that grew too fast attitude, then they can go live somewhere else

i personally want to see this city be more than just a concrete haven for rigpigs and construction workers

pjo=ignored until he can acknowledge the positives that this arena would bring

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06-05-2008, 11:08 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Datsun View Post
As much as I think that this topic is just a repeated borefest, telling someone to move from the city because they don't like a potential city policy is asinine. Nothing is more depressing then hearing Americans say, "If you don't like Bush, MOVE TO CANADA"...For context sake, now you know what you guys sound like.
Well yeah ..... but being told not to post in a thread if you don't like the drivel being posted there is kinda contradictory in this case don't you think ? I mean I can see that logic wrt the OT threads that fill the board , but pjo creates ( and deletes ) entire threads almost exclusively about what he doesn't like . Which leaves me wondering why its OK for one individual poster to create threads for the sole purpose of ranting about the negatives he sees in everything , but not OK for other individual posters to then register their negative feelings about the op or the topic . I guess we should all just be big enough to look the other way and let the man have his platform .

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06-06-2008, 12:21 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Well yeah ..... but being told not to post in a thread if you don't like the drivel being posted there is kinda contradictory in this case don't you think ? I mean I can see that logic wrt the OT threads that fill the board , but pjo creates ( and deletes ) entire threads almost exclusively about what he doesn't like . Which leaves me wondering why its OK for one individual poster to create threads for the sole purpose of ranting about the negatives he sees in everything , but not OK for other individual posters to then register their negative feelings about the op or the topic . I guess we should all just be big enough to look the other way and let the man have his platform .
Either way I think we can agree the draft can't come soon enough.

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06-06-2008, 12:47 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Well yeah ..... but being told not to post in a thread if you don't like the drivel being posted there is kinda contradictory in this case don't you think ? I mean I can see that logic wrt the OT threads that fill the board , but pjo creates ( and deletes ) entire threads almost exclusively about what he doesn't like . Which leaves me wondering why its OK for one individual poster to create threads for the sole purpose of ranting about the negatives he sees in everything , but not OK for other individual posters to then register their negative feelings about the op or the topic . I guess we should all just be big enough to look the other way and let the man have his platform .
It's a fair question, and I'm hoping hockeyaddict101 responds.

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Old
06-06-2008, 12:49 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
It's a fair question, and I'm hoping hockeyaddict101 responds.
Fair enough. This isn't my debate to be a part of either way so I'll leave it be.

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Old
06-06-2008, 12:56 AM
  #63
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Here is my response.

This thread is gonzo.

I am not a babysitter.

If you feel you have nothing to say but talk about how the thread shouldn't be started or feel you can't comment in the thread without insulting a poster than you should stay away.

It really wasn't that difficult to understand!


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 06-06-2008 at 01:01 AM.
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