First off, this isn't to trash det, they have a great team and deserved the cup 100%.
that being said, they trapped like it was the late 90's all over again, they did it all year. At one point me and my freind anylized every time pitts tried to break out, there was some obstruction on just about every play, they don't just hook like they use to, but obstruction none the less.
I thought the NHL wanted to get rid of it. So simple question, will there ever be a day when no team in the league traps?
Between the trap and constant shot blocking, scoring chances are extremely rare. And if you really look, nearly all of the (no PP) goals come off a turnover that is the result of...the trap. As another poster said, the best hockey of the series was when Pittsburgh had the lead b/c they don't shut it down as well as Detroit.
Some ideas:
full time 4x4- less people to put into a system. 100% chance of exciting hockey but extremely unlikely due to NHLPA losing jobs.
Control protective equipment so blocking shots is dangerous again. Again, 0% chance this happens b/c the PA (who don't think enough about safety to implement visors) would cry foul.
Increase net HEIGHT. A different idea, but the idea is to keep shot blockers and more importantly butterfly goalies, on their feet.
Create a "goaltending" penalty akin to the NBA. If the forward can stop a shot within a few feet of the shooter then that is a clean block. If the defenseman wants to be a second goalie, that is a penalty. Huge challenges over what is intentional and what is accidental though.
Open up the ice for the players to skate - makes for the best hockey.
The trap goes against the spirit of the game and it's flow.
When the games opened up it was great hockey and exciting to watch, fast, skilled, back and forth hockey.
Any form of the trap reeks - winning or not
I agree with out question, winning with the trap still takes skill, I am not argueing that. Still poll every player in the NHL and 95% will allude to what pghfett just said. It is just the way the game should be.
for the Record Det does play and exiting brand of the trap. THe thing about the trap is when you get the lead, you try and win by that goal, Det just has the offence to tack on a coupld more goals. That makes it more exiting, but still it is trap hockey. no question. They play it and play it a lot. AS for some one talking about Det getting in the corners, are you joking. THey did it a few times but really, not that much. I recall early 90s teams that the whole game was to dump it in every time, then grind it out in the corners.
Det has a simple game, it happens over and over. Get a turn over in the nuertral zone attack and fire a puck at the net, do not get deep, or get deep the least you can. Simple, they do not play in the corners, they fire pucks on the net and get back in the neutral zone and repeat.
Great team, lots of talent, they deserve the cup, wish the NHL would put and end to the trap.
Between the trap and constant shot blocking, scoring chances are extremely rare. And if you really look, nearly all of the (no PP) goals come off a turnover that is the result of...the trap. As another poster said, the best hockey of the series was when Pittsburgh had the lead b/c they don't shut it down as well as Detroit.
Some ideas:
full time 4x4- less people to put into a system. 100% chance of exciting hockey but extremely unlikely due to NHLPA losing jobs.
Control protective equipment so blocking shots is dangerous again. Again, 0% chance this happens b/c the PA (who don't think enough about safety to implement visors) would cry foul.
Increase net HEIGHT. A different idea, but the idea is to keep shot blockers and more importantly butterfly goalies, on their feet.
Create a "goaltending" penalty akin to the NBA. If the forward can stop a shot within a few feet of the shooter then that is a clean block. If the defenseman wants to be a second goalie, that is a penalty. Huge challenges over what is intentional and what is accidental though.
It is hard to think of rules, I agree with all the rules you stated. I think the simplest one is just make dropping to block a shot illegal, you can stand up and block as that will be impossible to stop, but drop down to block a shot, thats 2 mins. In the end it will be a better game, it isn't safe at all the block shots any way, the players would be relieved.
For getting rid of the trap, that is a tough one, you dont' want to get into zone rules, kind of things were the defending team can only have so many players in the nuetral zone, but that is what it might take. Other than that, just keep calling obstruction through the zone.
You know for beating the trap, I wonder if a team would ever try the opposite, a trap is basically having 4 guys back and getting turnovers. What about having 4 guys play up, attack them hard in their zone, if they can get it out they get a great chance if not you get a great chance. The offensive trap basically, would make for some crazy hockey. Of all teams the oilers have the speed to make it work.
First off, this isn't to trash det, they have a great team and deserved the cup 100%.
that being said, they trapped like it was the late 90's all over again, they did it all year. At one point me and my freind anylized every time pitts tried to break out, there was some obstruction on just about every play, they don't just hook like they use to, but obstruction none the less.
I thought the NHL wanted to get rid of it. So simple question, will there ever be a day when no team in the league traps?
thats a very good topic - we were debating it last night -
detroit took it to a new level - babcock is lemaire's smarter younger brother -
Detroit only really started trapping when they were up 2 goals last night. Their transition game and puck possession (note how rarely they dump and chase) is so effective that defense and offense flow into each other. In no way is Detroit unaggressive like Minnesota; they often end up with two forecheckers.
This is exactly the type of system MacT is talking about when he says "I don't think that you have to give up anything defensively to be offensively successful." When he says he wants to emulate Detroit, that is what he is talking about.
Detroit only really started trapping when they were up 2 goals last night. Their transition game and puck possession (note how rarely they dump and chase) is so effective that defense and offense flow into each other. In no way is Detroit unaggressive like Minnesota; they often end up with two forecheckers.
This is exactly the type of system MacT is talking about when he says "I don't think that you have to give up anything defensively to be offensively successful." When he says he wants to emulate Detroit, that is what he is talking about.
Det has very good offensive players and plays an exiting brand of the trap, but lets not get carried away, they are a trap team, they don't play it will the lead, they play it all the time. They rarley pursue the puck, just when they feel they can get it for sure. How many times 5-5 did you see a third forward let along a defenceman jump up into the play, I mean a defenceman it just never happens, ever. How many times do you see a team attack Det zone with only one or even 2 det players back, 0-0, 1-1 it just doens't happen. They play it and play it well, it is the trap any way you cut it though, or well left wing lock, depends how technical you want to be.
Det has very good offensive players and plays an exiting brand of the trap, but lets not get carried away, they are a trap team, they don't play it will the lead, they play it all the time. They rarley pursue the puck, just when they feel they can get it for sure. How many times 5-5 did you see a third forward let along a defenceman jump up into the play, I mean a defenceman it just never happens, ever. How many times do you see a team attack Det zone with only one or even 2 det players back, 0-0, 1-1 it just doens't happen. They play it and play it well, it is the trap any way you cut it though, or well left wing lock, depends how technical you want to be.
So playing the trap is the equivalent of not making bad pinches? Every defenseman should play this way. Anyways, Detriot's D pinch all the time, I don't know what you are talking about. And they give amazing support during o-zone board play. there are usually three players close by.
How many odd man rushes do they give up? Barely any. That doesn't mean that they play the trap. Non-trap is defined by 2 forecheckers with a third man high. So in ALL systems, assuming your players backcheck, there should be at least 3 players back if no bad pinches are made. they just have good defensive forwards that know their positioning and work their ***** off.
First off, this isn't to trash det, they have a great team and deserved the cup 100%.
that being said, they trapped like it was the late 90's all over again, they did it all year. At one point me and my freind anylized every time pitts tried to break out, there was some obstruction on just about every play, they don't just hook like they use to, but obstruction none the less.
I thought the NHL wanted to get rid of it. So simple question, will there ever be a day when no team in the league traps?
If you cannot tell the difference between a trap and obstruction then you deserve all the arrows that will be flung at you.
So playing the trap is the equivalent of not making bad pinches? Every defenseman should play this way. Anyways, Detriot's D pinch all the time, I don't know what you are talking about. And they give amazing support during o-zone board play. there are usually three players close by.
How many odd man rushes do they give up? Barely any. That doesn't mean that they play the trap. Non-trap is defined by 2 forecheckers with a third man high. So in ALL systems, assuming your players backcheck, there should be at least 3 players back if no bad pinches are made.
Sometimes they trap, but not usually. Sorry.
On the pp maybe, it is amazing two people can watch the same game and see differnt things, when was the last time Lidstrom, Rafalski or any of them was even close the opposing net 5-5, just doens't happen, sorry.
Det traps a lot!!!You are right it is not alwasy black and white, it changes during the game to the degree, and ya somtimes it is just not making bad pinches and having a guy back, some times it is all out trap.
Det get offence by neutral zone turnovers, some one was saying this before, look at nearly every Det goal not on the PP and you will see a nuetral zone turn over.
If you cannot tell the difference between a trap and obstruction then you deserve all the arrows that will be flung at you.
Not sure what you mean, not illegal obstruction in the terms of the rules, I just mean a player can't skate freeling through the nuetral zone or for that matter make a pass.
I agree, it isn't as bad as pre lock out, but still far from were is use to be before the mid 90s.
I feel like I am old and I am only 27, I think people have gotten so use to this kind of hockey they fool themselves into thinking it is exiting, druling over the 10 chances per game. Reality is it is so far from what it use to be, when teams hit and run and gunned all game, when you use to see break aways, how many break aways did pitts have during the whole final? I can't recal one, hell I think I recal one 2-1.
You want the good old days? Go back to when hockey players drank beer and smoked weed all summer and came to camp out of shape.
Go back to skates that players could barely stand up on. Go back to goaltenders that had no athletic ability, could not skate and had 25 pounds of gear.
Go back to coaches that for the most part had no access to video, little for modern training and had an old school mentality.
Get Don Cheery clones behind every bench and have teams full of Kyle Wellwood's and Gary Roberts. Wellwood's that are out of shape and cannot play defense. Roberts to run blindly into things and take bad penalties whenever possible.
Don Cherry's clip on Gary Roberts "inspiring" Max Talbot made me lose my mind. If you asked Don if he wants 18 Crosby's or 18 Roberts he would say 18 Roberts and that is all you need to know.
You want the good old days? Go back to when hockey players drank beer and smoked weed all summer and came to camp out of shape.
Go back to skates that players could barely stand up on. Go back to goaltenders that had no athletic ability, could not skate and had 25 pounds of gear.
Go back to coaches that for the most part had no access to video, little for modern training and had an old school mentality.
Get Don Cheery clones behind every bench and have teams full of Kyle Wellwood's and Gary Roberts. Wellwood's that are out of shape and cannot play defense. Roberts to run blindly into things and take bad penalties whenever possible.
Don Cherry's clip on Gary Roberts "inspiring" Max Talbot made me lose my mind. If you asked Don if he wants 18 Crosby's or 18 Roberts he would say 18 Roberts and that is all you need to know.
Actually if you went back to that era, you would find that the so-called Flying Frenchmen were basically a trapping, counter-attack team.
You want the good old days? Go back to when hockey players drank beer and smoked weed all summer and came to camp out of shape.
Go back to skates that players could barely stand up on. Go back to goaltenders that had no athletic ability, could not skate and had 25 pounds of gear.
Go back to coaches that for the most part had no access to video, little for modern training and had an old school mentality.
Get Don Cheery clones behind every bench and have teams full of Kyle Wellwood's and Gary Roberts. Wellwood's that are out of shape and cannot play defense. Roberts to run blindly into things and take bad penalties whenever possible.
Don Cherry's clip on Gary Roberts "inspiring" Max Talbot made me lose my mind. If you asked Don if he wants 18 Crosby's or 18 Roberts he would say 18 Roberts and that is all you need to know.
You know when I played hockey I thought the funnest thing by far were break aways, 2-1 and 3-2, Every one practiced them over and over, becuase they were fun..
You don't see them any more, I would like to see them return. That is all.
You know hockey really is suppose to be 3-2, when you think about it, that is what it should be back and forth, there are 3 forwards and 2 defence, that is how the game was invented to be played, it isn't played like that any more.
Det has very good offensive players and plays an exiting brand of the trap, but lets not get carried away, they are a trap team, they don't play it will the lead, they play it all the time. They rarley pursue the puck, just when they feel they can get it for sure. How many times 5-5 did you see a third forward let along a defenceman jump up into the play, I mean a defenceman it just never happens, ever. How many times do you see a team attack Det zone with only one or even 2 det players back, 0-0, 1-1 it just doens't happen. They play it and play it well, it is the trap any way you cut it though, or well left wing lock, depends how technical you want to be.
I was preparing to write a more detailed response on how wrong you are that the defense for Detroit didn't jump into the play, before catching how badly you're discrediting yourself here.
Detroit rarely pursued the puck? What series were you watching? Detroit consistently outfought the Pens for pucks at center ice, in Pitt's zone, in Detroit's zone. Detroit played like they believed the puck belonged to them the entire series and if Pitt had it for some reason they were going to take it back.
