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Zinovjev sent home from the WC's for drug use / Unofficial drug test administered

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Old
04-29-2004, 01:26 PM
  #76
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Big Deal

If it was a hard drug or steroids, I'd be pissed...Allthough another negative tid-bit on Zino is anything but good...This is still minor...Just shows he's stupid enough to get caught, come on Zino!, Hockey players are better then that!

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04-29-2004, 04:41 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Recreational drug use is obviously not a good thing for a professional athlete to be doing...........erfus
Some one tell that to Robert Parish.

Zino screwed up. It happens, people screw up. Am I making excuses for him? No.

Will people take it into consideration when disecting his worth. Yes.

Does it forever eliminate him from ever wearing a B's sweater? No.

What ever happened to forgiving the kid,after he's paid for his "crime", and seeing if he can learn from his mistake. That's how life works, unless you never make mistakes.

How many of us can claim that?

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04-29-2004, 05:13 PM
  #78
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I am not saying that Zino should not be forgiven, if he ever manages to give some indication that he is maturing and making better choices. Everyone gets to make their own choices and it is not necessarily any of my business what his choices are or what his value system is. To each his own. Like I've said before, these are my views and - who cares?

However - whatever happened to expecting more from people than this? It seems like these days, any slip up, serious or minor, is okay as long as the person eventually prostrates him/herself in the public eye. I know I am old and out of touch, but I really give the nod to people who make wise choices and display character in advance, not after the fact, not after getting caught, not after needing a pass to carry on. After all, it is not like EVERYONE is out there doing some of these things we are constantly being asked to ignore or forgive or tolerate. Is anyone perfect? Close to perfect? Of course not. But it is also true that not everyone makes these kinds of choices, choices I consider to be correlative to poor character.

To me, yes, this Zino thing is ultimately a minor thing on the good/bad meter. But life is too short to wait around for people who CHRONICally (hope you appreciate the Dre reference, all you heads) make choices you don't agree with. I am not trying to be moralistic or puritanical or whatever, believe it or not - I'm just saying that there is no obligation to look the other way, time after time. The "no one is perfect" argument does not require a free pass time and again. Zino is a kid and he's had a few screw ups, as most of us probably have, of a similar or greater or lesser nature. Maybe he'll turn the corner or maybe he doesn't care. Depending on what happens with him next, my tolerance for it all goes up or down. But, at the end of the day, it's not like he cares a bit what I think and frankly vice versa. When it comes to talking with fondness and optimism about a Bruins player, this all enters into where my sentiments fall. That's just me. I do respect the right of anyone to feel completely the opposite. We're just talkin' here.

I wonder what the correlation is between people lambasting Thornton but poo-pooing the Zino incidents. Hopefully there isn't one.

 
Old
04-29-2004, 05:16 PM
  #79
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To wrap it up, I think we should give Zino the "A." The SCARLET A.

 
Old
04-29-2004, 06:57 PM
  #80
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well my 2 cents...

first and foremost I don't believe anybody is perfect.
As a young guy I did some of the most dumbest things known to man. Both legal and illegal. My mother said I'd never live to vote..I proved her wrong but not by much.

Inhale ?..you betcha.. alot..

BUT.. there came a time and I believe this applies to most , if not all, when it's time to turn a corner, grow up, face responsibility, or whatever the right term is.

I don't think young Zino has come near the juncture yet. If anything bugs me , it's that. Until he does so , he's high risk, not dependable, and not ready for a proffession regardless of skill or God given talent.

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Old
04-30-2004, 09:15 PM
  #81
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Zino "drug-use" set up by Russian Boss?

Check this out boys, maybe he is clean and set up cause he won't sign?...

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=74192

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04-30-2004, 09:27 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr
Check this out boys, maybe he is clean and set up cause he won't sign?...

http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=74192
This all really begs the question of why he just didnt work hard over here in the first place, make tons of money, live a great life instead of heading back to Siberia.

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04-30-2004, 09:42 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
This all really begs the question of why he just didnt work hard over here in the first place, make tons of money, live a great life instead of heading back to Siberia.
Something tells me if there is hockey in September, he'll be at camp with a new attitude.

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Old
04-30-2004, 09:57 PM
  #84
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Bizarre. The testing wasn't even IIHF- sanctioned so technically it shouldn't have prevented Zinovjev from participating in the World Championships. Was he being blackmailed?

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04-30-2004, 10:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by misterjaggers
Bizarre. The testing wasn't even IIHF- sanctioned so technically it shouldn't have prevented Zinovjev from participating in the World Championships. Was he being blackmailed?
Looks to me it was more the coach who had the pressure on him from the Russian Mob. He is the one who ultimately had the say and I doubt he cares if he is signed or not without outside influence.

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04-30-2004, 11:11 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
This all really begs the question of why he just didnt work hard over here in the first place, make tons of money, live a great life instead of heading back to Siberia.
He was making a boatload of money in his homeland. If I remember the story, Ak Bars is owned by a nationalist billionaire who pays his players NHL-calibur salaries in an attempt to keep top-knotch talent local. I think Zino was getting something like half a million dollars US. In Siberia, half a million US dollars probably translates to a lot more than the million or two a year that a player of his skill would command here. That, and you get to stay "home." No new language to learn, no new culture to adapt to, you'll probably be one of the best players in your league, etc. Coming to the Bruins was never a slam dunk for this kid.

If he comes over here, it'll probably be more about him looking for better hockey (pride and a sense of challenge) than it would be cash.

If there's a lockout, don't be surprised to see a lot of guys stay in Russia once the NHL resumes. If you could make a comfortable living in your native land, would you leave? This labor strife is VERY dangerous for teams heavy in Eastern European players.

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05-01-2004, 04:05 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
Looks to me it was more the coach who had the pressure on him from the Russian Mob. He is the one who ultimately had the say and I doubt he cares if he is signed or not without outside influence.
Check this out. The pot prohibition is new. It wasn't prohibited by the IIHF until 2004:
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache...bstances&hl=en
Zinovjev is either really stupid or he wasn't aware of the rules change or he was trying to get clean before the official testing and the timing of this unofficial test surprised him.

(BTW: I don't advocate pot use by athletes, but it's worth mentioning that possession of small amounts was decriminalized in March by the Russian Duma: http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/328/russia.shtml)


Last edited by misterjaggers: 05-01-2004 at 04:38 AM.
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Old
05-01-2004, 07:04 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjaggers
Check this out. The pot prohibition is new. It wasn't prohibited by the IIHF until 2004:
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache...bstances&hl=en
Zinovjev is either really stupid or he wasn't aware of the rules change or he was trying to get clean before the official testing and the timing of this unofficial test surprised him.

(BTW: I don't advocate pot use by athletes, but it's worth mentioning that possession of small amounts was decriminalized in March by the Russian Duma: http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/328/russia.shtml)
He must have not been aware of the rule change then if he did test positive because it is a matter of chugging a special "tea" that would clean out your system.

If the Russian mob is involved though it is up for debate whether he was even tested or not....they may have invented the whole deal.

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05-01-2004, 07:06 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by ThorntoNeely198
He was making a boatload of money in his homeland. If I remember the story, Ak Bars is owned by a nationalist billionaire who pays his players NHL-calibur salaries in an attempt to keep top-knotch talent local. I think Zino was getting something like half a million dollars US. In Siberia, half a million US dollars probably translates to a lot more than the million or two a year that a player of his skill would command here. That, and you get to stay "home." No new language to learn, no new culture to adapt to, you'll probably be one of the best players in your league, etc. Coming to the Bruins was never a slam dunk for this kid.

If he comes over here, it'll probably be more about him looking for better hockey (pride and a sense of challenge) than it would be cash.

If there's a lockout, don't be surprised to see a lot of guys stay in Russia once the NHL resumes. If you could make a comfortable living in your native land, would you leave? This labor strife is VERY dangerous for teams heavy in Eastern European players.
500k in the US or 250k in Siberia....hmm....well I have never been to Siberia before but I am guessing I would choose Option A.

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05-01-2004, 01:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
500k in the US or 250k in Siberia....hmm....well I have never been to Siberia before but I am guessing I would choose Option A.
Well, yeah. You're American, you speak English, and this culture works for you. But put yourself in Zinovjev's shoes for a second. After taxes, he was probably making roughly even US dollars playing for Boston ($1mil) or Ak Bars ($500k).

What I think you're missing is the fact that after taxes, agents, managers, and factoring in cost of living, there is a HUGE difference between making $500k in Siberia than $1mil in Boston.

In Boston, the IRS and State are going to eat a little over $450,000. Managers and Agents will eat another $200,000. So Sergei can take his $350,000 a year, get a decent house in the suburbs and live comfortably. By no means poor, but by no means loaded, either.

Or, in Siberia, he can take $500,000 from Ak Bars. He dealt directly with the owner, used local management, and probably paid roughly 20% taxes and 'security.' Most of that money probably went to handlers, as tax evasion is notoriously simple in the former USSR. Zinovjev probably cleared just north of $300,000 a year in Siberia. $300,000 in Siberia is Scrooge McDuck money. He could afford interests in several local businesses, live in a mansion, have access to all of the latest technologies, and live like a king. Speak his own language. Entertainment is in the culture he grew up in. He's in on the ground floor, filthy stinking rich in a rapidly developing capitalist society.

If it weren't for organized crime, very few top tier Russian players would probably stay stateside after their careers end.

I know we love the Bruins, love America, and think Siberia is the pits, but think about it a little more before you say you'd pick Boston hands down...

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05-01-2004, 09:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ThorntoNeely198
Well, yeah. You're American, you speak English, and this culture works for you. But put yourself in Zinovjev's shoes for a second. After taxes, he was probably making roughly even US dollars playing for Boston ($1mil) or Ak Bars ($500k).

What I think you're missing is the fact that after taxes, agents, managers, and factoring in cost of living, there is a HUGE difference between making $500k in Siberia than $1mil in Boston.

In Boston, the IRS and State are going to eat a little over $450,000. Managers and Agents will eat another $200,000. So Sergei can take his $350,000 a year, get a decent house in the suburbs and live comfortably. By no means poor, but by no means loaded, either.

Or, in Siberia, he can take $500,000 from Ak Bars. He dealt directly with the owner, used local management, and probably paid roughly 20% taxes and 'security.' Most of that money probably went to handlers, as tax evasion is notoriously simple in the former USSR. Zinovjev probably cleared just north of $300,000 a year in Siberia. $300,000 in Siberia is Scrooge McDuck money. He could afford interests in several local businesses, live in a mansion, have access to all of the latest technologies, and live like a king. Speak his own language. Entertainment is in the culture he grew up in. He's in on the ground floor, filthy stinking rich in a rapidly developing capitalist society.

If it weren't for organized crime, very few top tier Russian players would probably stay stateside after their careers end.

I know we love the Bruins, love America, and think Siberia is the pits, but think about it a little more before you say you'd pick Boston hands down...
I think your numbers are a little exagerrated as far as what he comes home with. 200k to his agent seems way, way on the high end, but I will grand you your numbers. I am not sure how much you make a year, but 350k TAKE HOME for a single guy in the US is living the good life.....in fact that is beyond the good life, that is grade A lifestyle.

As far as the where I am from tidbit and where I would choose. I am not basing it on what I would choose, that would be obvious. I am basing it on the hundreds of hockey players who have fled their countries to play in the US and Canada (nevermind the millions who have flocked here for other reasons) and then I compare that with how many hockey players *choose* to go to Siberia and play hockey.

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05-01-2004, 10:54 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz20
I think your numbers are a little exagerrated as far as what he comes home with. 200k to his agent seems way, way on the high end, but I will grand you your numbers. I am not sure how much you make a year, but 350k TAKE HOME for a single guy in the US is living the good life.....in fact that is beyond the good life, that is grade A lifestyle.

As far as the where I am from tidbit and where I would choose. I am not basing it on what I would choose, that would be obvious. I am basing it on the hundreds of hockey players who have fled their countries to play in the US and Canada (nevermind the millions who have flocked here for other reasons) and then I compare that with how many hockey players *choose* to go to Siberia and play hockey.
Agents take 15%. I figured 5% was a fair number for tax attorneys, hangers-on, etc. Agent takes nothing from the Ak Bars deal, since he negotiated it directly with the owner.

And I can see where history is working for your argument, but the variable that I keep beating like a drum - which I think makes this situation very different - is the nationalist billionaire paying the guy NHL money. How many of those hundreds (probably thousands) of players that came to North America to play hockey had the option to stay at home with a better-comparative standard of living?

The development of RSL players starting to get big money is less than two years old. Prior to that, these guys were getting drafted into bogus military service, leaned on hard by organized crime, etc. They were ESCAPING to come play in the NHL. As the Eastern European bloc develops economically, instead of escaping, these players are now faced with a choice. You can probably count on two hands the number of players who had been offered NHL money to stay in Europe before two years ago. Forsberg (MoDo), Bure (that Russian mob boss that bought a team offered to match his Panthers money to play on a Tier 2 team to try to win his way into the RSL), Czerkawski (MoDo), and Thomas (to be a player/coach for England) are the only examples I can think of off of the top of my head who took a pay cut to play NHL instead of local. Out of THOUSANDS who've come over.

I'm just saying it's not the same now, and it's not the most simple, slam-dunk decision for Zino that a lot of people on these boards have made it out to be. If he comes back over here, I'll take him seriously.

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05-02-2004, 09:53 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ThorntoNeely198
Agents take 15%. I figured 5% was a fair number for tax attorneys, hangers-on, etc. Agent takes nothing from the Ak Bars deal, since he negotiated it directly with the owner.

And I can see where history is working for your argument, but the variable that I keep beating like a drum - which I think makes this situation very different - is the nationalist billionaire paying the guy NHL money. How many of those hundreds (probably thousands) of players that came to North America to play hockey had the option to stay at home with a better-comparative standard of living?

The development of RSL players starting to get big money is less than two years old. Prior to that, these guys were getting drafted into bogus military service, leaned on hard by organized crime, etc. They were ESCAPING to come play in the NHL. As the Eastern European bloc develops economically, instead of escaping, these players are now faced with a choice. You can probably count on two hands the number of players who had been offered NHL money to stay in Europe before two years ago. Forsberg (MoDo), Bure (that Russian mob boss that bought a team offered to match his Panthers money to play on a Tier 2 team to try to win his way into the RSL), Czerkawski (MoDo), and Thomas (to be a player/coach for England) are the only examples I can think of off of the top of my head who took a pay cut to play NHL instead of local. Out of THOUSANDS who've come over.

I'm just saying it's not the same now, and it's not the most simple, slam-dunk decision for Zino that a lot of people on these boards have made it out to be. If he comes back over here, I'll take him seriously.
Well he already realizes that he made a mistake and said he wants to give it another go. I still think that 350k take home living in a Boston suberb is worlds better than having his 300k rubbles go a little further in Siberia. Maybe that it is the American in me, but all these Russian (and other Euro players) dont seem to have too much trouble adapting here at all.

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05-09-2004, 09:53 AM
  #94
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Zinovjev.....pot rumors false?

http://www.russianprospects.com/publ...hp?player_id=1

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Old
05-28-2004, 12:14 PM
  #95
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http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...62#post1433162

someone on the caps board seems to think zinovjev could make his way to washington, since he played with ovechkin and did well.

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