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Gionta ++ for a top pairing D

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06-07-2008, 10:18 PM
  #1
Puckclektr
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Gionta ++ for a top pairing D

I as well as many Devil fans think that the Devils need another top pairing D(preferably puck moving). Gionta is still a very good scorer and could still easily pot 40 maybe 50 with thte right centreman. Two years out of a 48 goal season. The year before last he still would have hit 40 but missed 20 games and also missed 9-10 games without Gomez. This guy could do damage on a team with a playmaker. Last year was a bit of an off year but still managed 53 points on a defensive team as well as spending a lot of time on the third line. I just think he needs a change of scenery.

Make your offers. Cap hit $4mil and a UFA after next year. Swap salaries give or take a million or two. Swap picks/players/prospects...

I was thinking of a few.
Gionta + for Brewer
Could play really well with Mcddonald.

Gionta for Kubina. Kubina played a lot better in the second half of the season. Is he worth the $5mil. Leafs dump $1million this year and $5million the year after.

How well could he play with these playmakers?
Thornton, Savard, Sedin, Spezza, Kane, Getlzlaf, Ribeiro, Hemsky, Bouchard etc?

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06-07-2008, 10:30 PM
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ELab2
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I think Gionta is pretty overrated. The guy had one great season but has only scored more than 30 once and your saying he could easily pot 40 or 50. He's certainly a very good player but I'd think you'd need to add to him pretty substantially to get a top pairing dman unless it was a dman who the team was looking to move (Kubina would be an example if you consider him a top pairing guy).

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06-07-2008, 10:31 PM
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Peter Griffin
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I'd be interested in Gionta from a Canucks' POV, but if the asking price is a top pairing defenseman, forget about it. Gionta is one year away from UFA and there are no guarantee's he'd sign with his new team. I think you're overrating Gionta quite a bit. He's only scored over 30 goals once in his career and two seasons ago when he missed 20 games was on pace for just over 30. He's feisty, but at 5'7" he's not going to add any size to anyone's line-up.

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06-07-2008, 10:33 PM
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You're overrating Gionta here. 'Nucks fans; would you be interested in Gionta + Greene for a defensemen?

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06-07-2008, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I think Gionta is pretty overrated. The guy had one great season but has only scored more than 30 once and your saying he could easily pot 40 or 50. He's certainly a very good player but I'd think you'd need to add to him pretty substantially to get a top pairing dman unless it was a dman who the team was looking to move (Kubina would be an example if you consider him a top pairing guy).
He was on pace for 37-38 goals two years ago.

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06-07-2008, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tangible_faith View Post
He was on pace for 37-38 goals two years ago.
He was on pace for 34.27 goals. And there is no way of knowing whether he would have hit that number. He'd still only been over 30 twice and 40 once and all of a sudden he could easily hit 40 or 50? Doesn't add up.

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06-07-2008, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ALine9900 View Post
You're overrating Gionta here. 'Nucks fans; would you be interested in Gionta + Greene for a defensemen?
Bourdon died, we don't really have any defensemen to spare.

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06-07-2008, 10:58 PM
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Puckclektr
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How am I overating him? It's not like I said he is worth a top pairing D. I also said he could be traded for one, along with picks/prospects etc? The stats don't lie. 48 goals then on pace for 37-38. and then 22 goals. That is 36 goals a yer average the last three years which would put him top 15 in the league this year. The first year he played with Gomez, the second he played 52 games with Gomez and got 25 goals. He was pointless in the 9 games without Gomez. He could just need that playmaking centre man.

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06-07-2008, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
He was on pace for 34.27 goals. And there is no way of knowing whether he would have hit that number. He'd still only been over 30 twice and 40 once and all of a sudden he could easily hit 40 or 50? Doesn't add up.
Of course it adds up. If he hit 40 before why can't he do it again. He has played on a defensive team his whole career and if he played on an offensive team he could easily hit 30 with 40 not being out of the question and 50 a long shot.

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06-07-2008, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tangible_faith View Post
Of course it adds up. If he hit 40 before why can't he do it again. He has played on a defensive team his whole career and if he played on an offensive team he could easily hit 30 with 40 not being out of the question and 50 a long shot.
Your making a leap. It's certainly possible he'd hit 40 again, but to say he'd do it easily as if it's a foregone conclusion when he's only done it once and not come very close again doesn't make sense.

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06-07-2008, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tangible_faith View Post
Of course it adds up. If he hit 40 before why can't he do it again. He has played on a defensive team his whole career and if he played on an offensive team he could easily hit 30 with 40 not being out of the question and 50 a long shot.
Jason Blake hit 40 goals two seasons ago and I don't think there are too many people expecting him to repeat that total. Players have good seasons and then fall back to down to Earth, happens all the time.

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06-07-2008, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
Your making a leap. It's certainly possible he'd hit 40 again, but to say he'd do it easily as if it's a foregone conclusion when he's only done it once and not come very close again doesn't make sense.
I never said he would. I said he could.

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06-07-2008, 11:15 PM
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Jason Blake hit 40 goals two seasons ago and I don't think there are too many people expecting him to repeat that total. Players have good seasons and then fall back to down to Earth, happens all the time.
Jason Blake is also not 29 years old and in his prime anymore. Blake wasn't a full time NHLer until he was 29-30. A little different. I am not saying Gionta is as good as OVechkin, all I am saying that there is a possibilty for 40 goals.

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06-07-2008, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
I'd be interested in Gionta from a Canucks' POV, but if the asking price is a top pairing defenseman, forget about it. Gionta is one year away from UFA and there are no guarantee's he'd sign with his new team. I think you're overrating Gionta quite a bit. He's only scored over 30 goals once in his career and two seasons ago when he missed 20 games was on pace for just over 30. He's feisty, but at 5'7" he's not going to add any size to anyone's line-up.
Thanks sherlock.

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06-07-2008, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tangible_faith View Post
Jason Blake is also not 29 years old and in his prime anymore. Blake wasn't a full time NHLer until he was 29-30. A little different. I am not saying Gionta is as good as OVechkin, all I am saying that there is a possibilty for 40 goals.
But realistically, any team acquiring him will be expecting around 30. Outside chance of 40 if everything goes right, but valuewise, he's a small, 25-35 goal scorer. Similar to Mike Cammalleri.

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06-07-2008, 11:18 PM
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I never said he would. I said he could.
Could EASILY implies that he certainly would for the purposes of offering the player up for trade.

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06-07-2008, 11:19 PM
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Thanks sherlock.
What was the point of this? If this was an attempt at humour, I must've missed it. I guess stating a player's shortcomings(no pun intended) is unnecessary in a discussion about said players' trade values.

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06-07-2008, 11:21 PM
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But realistically, any team acquiring him will be expecting around 30. Outside chance of 40 if everything goes right, but valuewise, he's a small, 25-35 goal scorer. Similar to Mike Cammalleri.
I concur with that...

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06-07-2008, 11:24 PM
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Could EASILY implies that he certainly would for the purposes of offering the player up for trade.
Scoring a goal in the NHl is not easy. Scoring 40 is not easy. Let me rephrase that. Gionta could score 40 goals again.

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06-07-2008, 11:28 PM
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Scoring a goal in the NHl is not easy. Scoring 40 is not easy. Let me rephrase that. Gionta could score 40 goals again.
Well the answer to that is of course he could. He's got decent value but I don't think he gets you too close to a top-pairing guy.

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06-07-2008, 11:31 PM
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Well the answer to that is of course he could. He's got decent value but I don't think he gets you too close to a top-pairing guy.
Once again. I never said he would. I said Gionta ++ picks/prospects swaps. It is even in the topic title...

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06-07-2008, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tangible_faith View Post
Once again. I never said he would. I said Gionta ++ picks/prospects swaps. It is even in the topic title...
ok but you've got to be more specific to make that clear. The point is that Gionta can't be a large part of the deal, there would need to be some significant picks or prospects coming back. Since that's the case then you should include them in the discussion.

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06-07-2008, 11:41 PM
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If Sami Salo would waive his NTC I'd consider offering him for Gionta.

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06-07-2008, 11:55 PM
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I agree that if paired with the right centerman Gionta has 40+ goals in him, and that's not over-rating him. Making it as though he had one good year in the past 13 or something, is under-rating him however. His first season was 2001-2002, he played 33 games. His next season, in 2002-2003 he played 58 games. He finally started playing 60 or more games the following season (2003-2004) in which he played 75 games, and scored 21 goals. Some careers start later, and it says nothing about the quality of the player, simply the pace of maturity.

The following 3 years were all extremely solid. His 48 goal season speaks for itself, and you can't simply over-look several extreme factors the past 2 seasons. I'm not about to list the "dynamic duo's" around the league, but if you take one player away, generally the other player is effected. He missed 20 games in 06-07, and another 9 without Gomez. Still managing to put up 25 goals I would consider a great season.

This past year, which devil beside Parise, was off the charts offensively? Not having a center like Gomez hurt Gio this year. Not having any shot from the point (considering most of Gio's goals are rebound/garbage goals) and spending a chunk of time on the 3rd line also hurt his numbers. Again he still managed a 20+ goal season.

I'm not trying to make Gio out to be a top 5-10 player in the league, he isn't obviously. But simply looking at his numbers isn't all that fair either. If I just look at the numbers Malone put up this year, I'm pretty sure I'd feel they don't warrant the contract he's about to get, but seeing his face explode and him back on the ice 10 minutes later would make him worth every penny. Gio is all heart. You'll never see him out-worked. His defensive game is great, his grit is far beyond his size ("he's a 5'7 John Leclair" in the words of Scott Gomez). This is a guy that get's into it every chance he has with Chara, and actually dropped his gloves with him once. He has a ring to prove he knows what it takes, and he still has many years ahead of him.

To me, the only thing that may diminish his value is the fact that he's UFA in a year. Sometimes players just don't fit certain teams anymore...it happens all the time, and it says nothing about the player. That's the case here.

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Old
06-08-2008, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by devs4L View Post
I'm not trying to make Gio out to be a top 5-10 player in the league, he isn't obviously. But simply looking at his numbers isn't all that fair either. If I just look at the numbers Malone put up this year, I'm pretty sure I'd feel they don't warrant the contract he's about to get, but seeing his face explode and him back on the ice 10 minutes later would make him worth every penny. Gio is all heart. You'll never see him out-worked. His defensive game is great, his grit is far beyond his size ("he's a 5'7 John Leclair" in the words of Scott Gomez). This is a guy that get's into it every chance he has with Chara, and actually dropped his gloves with him once. He has a ring to prove he knows what it takes, and he still has many years ahead of him.
So why not keep him? NJ was 27th in scoring last season (and 27th the year before); wouldn't it be better for the team to keep him and sign a free agent defenseman like Campbell (they have the cap space I think to make a major attempt to sign him)?

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