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Package: Antoine Vermette + 42nd overall

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Old
06-08-2008, 07:32 AM
  #1
danishh
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Package: Antoine Vermette + 42nd overall

The sens may run into salary cap troubles this summer, depending upon what salaries are commanded by vermette and meszaros. They have numerous other holes to fill as well, specifically on defence and in goal. I believe that vermette is at his highest value right now, and has no long-term future with the team due to the entrenchment of fisher and spezza as the top 2 centres. Vermette has no chemistry with either and therefore cannot be shifted to wing.

Vermette played 81 games this year, posting 24 goals, 29 assists for 53 points. He was a +3, but his defensive play is significantly better than that indicates. He played on the first pk unit with chris kelly and did not recieve much powerplay time, an indication that his offensive numbers could grow with powerplay time.

The defecits in the sens sytem right now include both solid offensive and defensive prospects. This draft is very deep on the top end, and the sens are not looking for an elite player, just future second liners or potential top pairing guys.

What would your team offer for a package of vermette and the 42nd pick? Must include a pick that is an upgrade over 42 or a player worth more than vermette.

deal types:
Vermette, 42nd overall for top-15 pick.
Vermette, 42nd overall for low first round pick/high second and mid-level prospect (Enver lisin type). Must project to top six or top pairing even if their is likleyhood they dont make it. Add another prospect if necessary.
Vermette, 42nd overall for player, pick lower than 42 if needed. (eg package for joni pitkanen)

dont criticize my examples, because the player names are irrelevent and just meant for reference.

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06-08-2008, 07:51 AM
  #2
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I don't think a lot of people understand how much it will cost to move up into a 1-15 draft spot this year.

Vermette and the 42nd may move you up into the mid-to-low twenties, but nothing above that.

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06-08-2008, 08:09 AM
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Isles72
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I think the islanders could use a guy like Vermette and could offer one of their second round picks and a modest prospect for his services.

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06-08-2008, 08:14 AM
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Antoine Vermette interests me very much as a fan of the Islanders (and Vermette of course). I guess it would not be very likely, but a young center/winger like Vermette would sure improve our offense for next season without sacrificing the "youth movement"-thing. He also seems like a good character-guy who would fit right in with the identity they are trying to create. If my name was Garth Snow I would probably trade the 35th pick and maybe add a mid-level prospect like Frans Nielsen (who I really like and think is a bit underrated as a prospect) for Vermette and a the 42nd or maybe a third round pick. From Ottawa's point of view, why does it have to be a package deal including a 42nd overall draftpick?

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06-08-2008, 08:44 AM
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i figured if someone was giving up a low first or high second, they want another pick back in return. 42nd is the most valuable tradeable pick the sens have.

To the poster who said that i may be underestimating the cost of trading up, i would say that i am not being unreasonable. I'm not expecting a top 10 pick at all, but rather something in the 11-17 area. I think vermette's value is sort of an enigma - he has great defensive play, solid offensive numbers, and the potential to anchor a second line, but he hasnt had the opportunity to do that in ottawa. If a gm sees what many sens fans see (and are fairly infuriated that because of the fisher contract, he really will never be given a chance), vermette could get a sizeable return. If not, its probably not worth it for ottawa to trade him yet.

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06-08-2008, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingswillwinthecup View Post
I don't think a lot of people understand how much it will cost to move up into a 1-15 draft spot this year.

Vermette and the 42nd may move you up into the mid-to-low twenties, but nothing above that.
True and false.

A top-10 pick is never going to get you a current franchise roster player, maybe a nice 2nd liner with 1st line potential (Jeff Carter) or second pairing D-man with 1st-pairing potential (Tom Gilbert), but no team wanting to win now will give up such players only teams on rebuilds... which means those trades will never happen and only drives the value of the pick even lower.

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06-08-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
I'm not expecting a top 10 pick at all, but rather something in the 11-17 area.
I can imagine Columbus being interested with their #19.

The Oilers would gladly trade their #22 + lesser stuff for Vermette if they could shed Torres and Stoll's salaries.

But I suspect Ottawa would want roster players back (i.e D-men) because they are in a win now mode.

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06-08-2008, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voxel View Post
I can imagine Columbus being interested with their #19.

The Oilers would gladly trade their #22 + lesser stuff for Vermette if they could shed Torres and Stoll's salaries.

But I suspect Ottawa would want roster players back (i.e D-men) because they are in a win now mode.
dont know the specifics of a trade, but Vermette and the 19 as parts of a trade would interest me as a Jackets fan. He would slide right in as our 2nd line center i would imagine.

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06-08-2008, 09:34 AM
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I love Vermette, but as a Rangers fan I would be hesitant to welcome a move for him being that you say he has issues switching to the wing. Is it purely a chemistry issue, or just an inability to play the position? Would you trade Vermette and #42 for #20?

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06-08-2008, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingswillwinthecup View Post
I don't think a lot of people understand how much it will cost to move up into a 1-15 draft spot this year.

Vermette and the 42nd may move you up into the mid-to-low twenties, but nothing above that.

Pffft, 1st rounders when they're traded at the draft don't bring anything close to that return or hold that kind of vaule. GM's know that a 3rd of these players will never play in the NHL or will open and close the bench door for 2 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles72
I think the islanders could use a guy like Vermette and could offer one of their second round picks and a modest prospect for his services.
All Ottawa has are modest prospects and we have a lot of them.

To move 7 spots in the 2nd round? ... Take Vermette and Nielson off the table, if I want to move up 7 spots in the 2nd round... I offer you a Timbit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jntn View Post
From Ottawa's point of view, why does it have to be a package deal including a 42nd overall draftpick?
Probably to get a potential 1st liner/ top pairing D-man/#1 goalie. These deals invovling late picks and longshot prospects aren't really fitting Danish's bill in all likelihood.

For frame of reference, Ottawa has picked a whopping 2 useful players out of the 2nd round in 15 years: Fisher and Vermette. So if you're offering a 2nd rounder, IMO you're offering a 1/7 chance that we get a player back as good as the one we're trading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by voxel View Post
But I suspect Ottawa would want roster players back (i.e D-men) because they are in a win now mode.
Well, that's my opinion on the matter... but I guess others in Ottawa care about little boys who won't legally be allowed to have a beer in the US until Alfie retires. Nice combination there eh? Because that should be our goal: win while Alfie is here (a star on an extremely cheap contract). Even if it costs us 5 straight last place finishes the day he retires, that Cup will be worth it. Nothing should be more irrelevant to us than who will be picked in the top-10 of this years' draft.

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06-08-2008, 09:39 AM
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I'd be very Happy if the Habs gave their First and a prospect for Vermette and the 42 th...

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06-08-2008, 09:43 AM
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I think it would make a lot of sense for ATL to trade Pitt's 1st-rounder and a mid-tier prospect for this package.

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06-08-2008, 09:44 AM
  #13
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Vermette and 42nd for 19th would be a no brainer for the CBJ as I see it.

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06-08-2008, 10:05 AM
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I'd give you the 35th(Wheeler compensation pick) the 38th(Toronto's from the Yannic Perrault trade) and the 49th(Ottawa's from the Saprykin trade). I'm not sure Don Maloney would, but I sure would.

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06-08-2008, 10:17 AM
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From the CBJ I would more be hoping to get maybe the 19th and Methot who is a young decent defender from Ottawa who I think would be perfect for our 3rd pairing.

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06-08-2008, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Comely View Post
From the CBJ I would more be hoping to get maybe the 19th and Methot who is a young decent defender from Ottawa who I think would be perfect for our 3rd pairing.
I really like Methot but I don't think that deal would be out of the question. Throw in Redden's rights and you've got a deal.

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06-08-2008, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comely View Post
From the CBJ I would more be hoping to get maybe the 19th and Methot who is a young decent defender from Ottawa who I think would be perfect for our 3rd pairing.
While Methot is not a deal breaker for a top guy, he is for a guy like Vermette for me. id deal OKT.

i still think 19 for Vermette and rights to Redden is fair.

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06-08-2008, 10:42 AM
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I'd be recluent to give any pick for Vermette, since my good Old Trevor Timmins daft so well. But i'd do what it takes to get the guy because i see him bloom into a 70 points/season flashy player, with good defensive skillz.

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06-08-2008, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RDriesen16 View Post
While Methot is not a deal breaker for a top guy, he is for a guy like Vermette for me. id deal OKT.

i still think 19 for Vermette and rights to Redden is fair.
Yeah I'd rather go OKT as well.

Agree though that the 19th for Vermette is fair...hell we'll trade em rights to negotiate with Hainsey for Redden.

I really think the Jackets would want first crack at Redden though if they can get it. This deal makes sense.

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06-08-2008, 11:53 AM
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danishh
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trentmccleary was quite right in saying that none of these deals have been quite what i was looking for. Some of the offers were simply insults. Vermette is a 2nd line centre in the NHL now, something you cant say about any of the picks. The only reason the senators are considering dealing him is salary cap issues, but he is still quite a valuable player to any team.

Columbus does seem to be an interesting fit, in that they have a perfect hole for vermette to fill. Columbus also has a glut of goaltending prospects, a hole that is quite evident in ottawa.

In exchange for Vermette and the 42nd, what do columbus fans say to giving up the 19th, Methot.

Alternatively, take out methot and add mason. yeah, mason. (fine, maybe i'm being a bit unreasonable here.)

the sens would actually probably prefer popperle, who seems ready for a move to the NHL at least as a backup. What + Popperle + 19th equals vermette + 42nd?

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06-08-2008, 11:56 AM
  #21
RDriesenUD
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we already gave our opinion on the one that includes Methot. Mason? FORGET IT!!!!

and i dont know why you keep throwing the 42 in.

not sure where Popperle fits on our team, cause i dont know if we will keep Norrena. that one seems ok, but again, the 42 isnt needed. you are just adding something that isnt really wanted from the Jackets so the Jackets add more.

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06-08-2008, 12:06 PM
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Schremp, Chorney, Stoll, and Torres for Vermette and Fisher

Schremp projects to be a top-6 guy with top-line potential who can play every forward position. Chorney is a puck-moving, skating defenseman who just finished his junior year in college and has agreed to a contract with the Oilers (but he can't sign it officially until July 1st due to league rules). He projects to be at least a top-4 defenseman. Stoll is a downgrade offensively from Vermette (assuming he doesn't rebound), but is still good defensively and on ST. Torres is there to clear some more salary from an EDM perspective. How does that sound, value-wise? And please, I don't want this to be another "Stoll and Torres have no value" thread.

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06-08-2008, 12:10 PM
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26+MacArthur for Vermette

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06-08-2008, 12:12 PM
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If Ottawa trades Vermette and their second rounder, I'd hope it'd be for a young defenseman who could maybe step into their top 4 this year (Ryan Suter is a large pipe dream). What's the point in moving up in the draft when this team still has the pieces to be pretty good?

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06-08-2008, 12:12 PM
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I can see CBJ making a move for Vermette. He definitely has the skillset and can put up about 60 points with Rick Nash if chemistry develops.

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