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Old
06-07-2008, 01:47 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Whos better at the same age, Beech or Schremp?
Two very different players. From a skills perspective Schremp. Other issues/concerns aside, Robbie has always had elite level talent.

Beach is skilled but is attractive because he is a power forward. In a lot of ways he's a bigger version of Sean Avery or even reminds me of a young Sergio Momesso. He just annoys people to know end (unfortunatly he has to learn not to do that to his teammates).

I'd take a flyer on him. There's just something about him that I think he'll be sucessful in the NHL.

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06-07-2008, 01:50 PM
  #927
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I hope you're right about Carlson, but it seems like he was already projected to be picked around #20 before his latest hype from the combine. I hope we try trading up to grab him if he's still on the board at around 16...hopefully the price won't be too steep. I'd deal a 3rd rounder to move up a few spots.
I'm not a big fan of Carlson. He seems to be this year's draft day "riser". Every year there seems to be a kid who gets a lot of hype right before the draft and suddenly his upside goes beyond what he showed during the season.

Carlson has his skills, but he's very raw and I just don't seem him having any one area that really stands out.

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06-07-2008, 02:29 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I'm not a big fan of Carlson. He seems to be this year's draft day "riser". Every year there seems to be a kid who gets a lot of hype right before the draft and suddenly his upside goes beyond what he showed during the season.

Carlson has his skills, but he's very raw and I just don't seem him having any one area that really stands out.
Aside from the big four, which D-man would you like to see still on the board at 20?

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Old
06-07-2008, 03:18 PM
  #929
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Guys, I put together a pretty detailed mock and posted it here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...0#post14340330

Please check it out and give me some feedback.

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Old
06-07-2008, 03:59 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
Guys, I put together a pretty detailed mock and posted it here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...0#post14340330

Please check it out and give me some feedback.
I like it. Can't see Wilson slipping out of the top 10 though. I'd be thrilled with the Rangers picks that you outlined in the mock.

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06-07-2008, 05:07 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
Guys, I put together a pretty detailed mock and posted it here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...0#post14340330

Please check it out and give me some feedback.

A good mock. Very well reasoned. Hate to say that instead of Jokinen I'd as soon take Fienhage, Staal or Paquette but as chaotic as some first rounds usually seem afterwards--in reality there are always picks being taken out of nowhere as the draft moves along. Dubinsky was definitely a surprise when we took him.

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Old
06-07-2008, 06:18 PM
  #932
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Hate to say that instead of Jokinen I'd as soon take Fienhage, Staal or Paquette...
They were all strongly considered, it was a tough pick for me. I'd be happy with any of them.

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Old
06-07-2008, 06:36 PM
  #933
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as far as that mock...

I'd rather grab up Gustafsson than Carlson

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06-07-2008, 06:50 PM
  #934
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every prospect that has anything similar to jessiman is NOT guaranteed to turn out like jessiman. i laugh everytime i read this...someone wants to take a college kid 'well we took jessiman out of college how did that work'...someone wants to take a big power forward 'well jessiman is a power forward how did that work'...shut up. there are countless 'projects' and guys with 'raw talent' that have turned into very very successful player. just because we got one that didn't doesn't mean we should forever draft out of fear
Of course plenty of projects have turned out... and plenty of projects have flopped. No, every project is not guaranteed to be a Jessiman. My argument is that the risk is a lot higher than taking someone who has excelled in let's say the WHL. In such a deep draft I think I would shy away from the guy with the bigger question marks. I believe there will be safer players who are available with a very comparable ceiling. For instance Jessiman was a nice prospect, but in his draft year there were a lot of very good players who were much safer still on the board. It was way too early for that kind of pick. Blake Wheeler was another guy. I believe he was coming from the USHL as well... a very nice prospect... but #5 was too early to make that gamble. I just believe the Rangers need to come out of this draft with at least one top 6 forward or top 4 d-man. They just have too many aging/leaving core players to make a gamble on a guy whose ceiling is probably a #3 guy anyway...

Edit: I understand, and agree with some of your point. In fact, I believe the most annoying argument around is the so-so who is 5'6 140 pounds will be great... just look at St. Louis, and Fleury.

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Old
06-07-2008, 07:29 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
Of course plenty of projects have turned out... and plenty of projects have flopped. No, every project is not guaranteed to be a Jessiman. My argument is that the risk is a lot higher than taking someone who has excelled in let's say the WHL. In such a deep draft I think I would shy away from the guy with the bigger question marks. I believe there will be safer players who are available with a very comparable ceiling. For instance Jessiman was a nice prospect, but in his draft year there were a lot of very good players who were much safer still on the board. It was way too early for that kind of pick. Blake Wheeler was another guy. I believe he was coming from the USHL as well... a very nice prospect... but #5 was too early to make that gamble. I just believe the Rangers need to come out of this draft with at least one top 6 forward or top 4 d-man. They just have too many aging/leaving core players to make a gamble on a guy whose ceiling is probably a #3 guy anyway...

Edit: I understand, and agree with some of your point. In fact, I believe the most annoying argument around is the so-so who is 5'6 140 pounds will be great... just look at St. Louis, and Fleury.

Just out of curiosity, who would you like us to realistically draft this year?

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Old
06-08-2008, 02:12 AM
  #936
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Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
Just out of curiosity, who would you like us to realistically draft this year?
In a perfect world... Kyle Beach falling would be fantastic. I would trade up to 12 or so if the price was reasonable. He has his question marks as well, but the talent is there, and he has proven it in a good league. If we hold at 20... maybe a Teubert. There are also some good looking forwards like Dalpe, but I haven't seen enough of these guys to make a solid pick. I'm not going to tell you I've seen each of these forwards 40 times. I'd rather not just read a scouting report and give you THE guy who would be a steal. I do know that I want someone from a legitimate league. If a guys talent is off the charts, then I could see a gamble for a lower level player, otherwise why take a chance?

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Old
06-08-2008, 08:53 AM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
In a perfect world... Kyle Beach falling would be fantastic. I would trade up to 12 or so if the price was reasonable. He has his question marks as well, but the talent is there, and he has proven it in a good league. If we hold at 20... maybe a Teubert. There are also some good looking forwards like Dalpe, but I haven't seen enough of these guys to make a solid pick. I'm not going to tell you I've seen each of these forwards 40 times. I'd rather not just read a scouting report and give you THE guy who would be a steal. I do know that I want someone from a legitimate league. If a guys talent is off the charts, then I could see a gamble for a lower level player, otherwise why take a chance?
Wait, we shouldn't take a hit or miss guy in Carlson, but we should take the BIGGEST hit or miss guy in the entire draft in Beach?

Makes no sense via your previous logic.

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Old
06-08-2008, 11:16 AM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrfan444 View Post
Guys, I put together a pretty detailed mock and posted it here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p...0#post14340330

Please check it out and give me some feedback.
I thought the draft was great, but I can't see Tyler Cuma slipping that low. Carlson is a fantastic pick for whoever drafts him.

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Old
06-08-2008, 01:42 PM
  #939
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Wait, we shouldn't take a hit or miss guy in Carlson, but we should take the BIGGEST hit or miss guy in the entire draft in Beach?

Makes no sense via your previous logic.
I was waiting for that one. Carlson and Beach are apples and Oranges. The difference to me is that #1 Beach has been dominant in the WHL. Carlson has not. IMHO Beach probably has a higher ceiling. Beach has the skill.. .it comes down to his attitude. I think a guy like that can mature, but we just don't don't know how a guy like Carlson will look on a big stage yet. Carlson might be a phenom in college, we just haven't seen it yet. I don't know why you would take that high risk with a guy who is supposedly not great at anything. Is he a physical guy? A PP QB? Beach to me(and I could be wrong), is a lower risk, higher reward. To me the biggest concern with him is the two concussions he's had so of course you would want to run him through some testing before any decision is made...

So we know what will happen now... the Rangers will miss Carlson, and he'll be a stud. Or the Rangers will get Beach, and he'll have some sort of medical problem.

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Old
06-08-2008, 01:49 PM
  #940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
I was waiting for that one. Carlson and Beach are apples and Oranges. The difference to me is that #1 Beach has been dominant in the WHL. Carlson has not. IMHO Beach probably has a higher ceiling. Beach has the skill.. .it comes down to his attitude. I think a guy like that can mature, but we just don't don't know how a guy like Carlson will look on a big stage yet. Carlson might be a phenom in college, we just haven't seen it yet. I don't know why you would take that high risk with a guy who is supposedly not great at anything. Is he a physical guy? A PP QB? Beach to me(and I could be wrong), is a lower risk, higher reward. To me the biggest concern with him is the two concussions he's had so of course you would want to run him through some testing before any decision is made...

So we know what will happen now... the Rangers will miss Carlson, and he'll be a stud. Or the Rangers will get Beach, and he'll have some sort of medical problem.
Dominated the WHL? the guy had 27 goals and 60 points, thats hardly what i would call dominant. He had a miserable playoffs. Beach is the biggest risk in this draft for a player that isn't from Europe. I can't even believe someone will take a chance on him in the first round.

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Old
06-08-2008, 06:41 PM
  #941
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I think it's upside and accomplishment.

Beach has certainly shown me more than Carlson has.

With Beach, risks understood, you've got a player who has the potential be put up some NHL points and annoy the hell out of people.

With Carlson I see a kid who hasn't even faced higher level competition yet and to me doesn't have any one stand out skill. He doesn't really look like an offensive defenseman and despite his size, he's not really a banger either. Personally, I'm also one who isn't all that impressed with his skating either.

With Beach the issue is maturity. People know he has the goods, the question is whether he matures enough to take it to that next level.

With Carlson the issue is that no one really knows if he has the goods. It's a bunch of raw skills, no one knows if he's even a legit junior/college player yet, let alone an NHL prospect.

Personally, I'd be willing to role the dice on Beach. I'm not as inclined to do that with Carlson. It all comes down to risk/reward.

Worse case scenario is that they both bust. However, IMO, Beach has the potential to be a top six forward and unique player in the NHL. Carlson, to me at least, is maybe a good number 3 defenseman if EVERYTHING falls into place.

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06-08-2008, 06:47 PM
  #942
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Aside from the big four, which D-man would you like to see still on the board at 20?
Personally I like Teubert, even if his top end is as a bottom pairing defenseman.

I also would take a flyer on Del Zotto before Carlson.

Personally, I'd be happy with either Eberle, Nemisz or Gustafsson as my first round pick.

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06-08-2008, 07:32 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Personally I like Teubert, even if his top end is as a bottom pairing defenseman.

I also would take a flyer on Del Zotto before Carlson.

Personally, I'd be happy with either Eberle, Nemisz or Gustafsson as my first round pick.
I love Eberle.

To me, Nemisz is just a NA Brendl. Big body doesn't use it, not a good skater, great scorer, but the way he sleepwalks through games makes me question him. He's scary because if you're looking for a positive outlook, very faintly I can see a little bit of Rick Nash in him.

What is your take on him?

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Old
06-08-2008, 08:33 PM
  #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
I was waiting for that one. Carlson and Beach are apples and Oranges. The difference to me is that #1 Beach has been dominant in the WHL. Carlson has not. IMHO Beach probably has a higher ceiling. Beach has the skill.. .it comes down to his attitude. I think a guy like that can mature, but we just don't don't know how a guy like Carlson will look on a big stage yet. Carlson might be a phenom in college, we just haven't seen it yet. I don't know why you would take that high risk with a guy who is supposedly not great at anything. Is he a physical guy? A PP QB? Beach to me(and I could be wrong), is a lower risk, higher reward. To me the biggest concern with him is the two concussions he's had so of course you would want to run him through some testing before any decision is made...

So we know what will happen now... the Rangers will miss Carlson, and he'll be a stud. Or the Rangers will get Beach, and he'll have some sort of medical problem.
I stopped reading at the bold.

You obviously did not watch him from about 3/5ths of the season on and in the playoffs.

I did. I watched nearly his whole season.

Great in the first half, invisible most of the 2nd and one of the worst playoffs for a "top prospect" that I've ever seen.

Couple that with concussion issues and you want to take him over Carlson?

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Old
06-08-2008, 08:53 PM
  #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Personally I like Teubert, even if his top end is as a bottom pairing defenseman.

I also would take a flyer on Del Zotto before Carlson.

Personally, I'd be happy with either Eberle, Nemisz or Gustafsson as my first round pick.
bring on the swedes!!!!!!

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Old
06-08-2008, 09:57 PM
  #946
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I love Eberle.

To me, Nemisz is just a NA Brendl. Big body doesn't use it, not a good skater, great scorer, but the way he sleepwalks through games makes me question him. He's scary because if you're looking for a positive outlook, very faintly I can see a little bit of Rick Nash in him.

What is your take on him?
I don't know if I'd call him Brendl, he's not a dynamic scorer who floats.

Right now, Nemisz looks like a poor man's Rick Nash to me (good call on that one). He hasn't put all the pieces together, but he's a 6'3 foward who can do a little bit of everything...now he just has to do it all a little more often.

Anyone drafting Nemisz is drafting "potential" with the hopes that he can figure out his game, bulk up and maybe become a Nash or a Glenn Murray. Heck, at the very least he should be a Mark Bell. But again, there are a lot of question marks and that's why he's a mid to late first rounder and not a top 10 pick.

Personally, I would love to get Eberle. My gut tells me he's going to go in the teens, but something tells me he is going to be a really solid if unspectacular NHL'er.

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06-08-2008, 10:01 PM
  #947
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bring on the swedes!!!!!!
Gustafsson is a solid player who I expect to play in the NHL. However, I don't think he has the highest offensive upside.

In a lot of ways he reminds me of Lauri Korpikoski. Good all-around skills, solid two-way player who's hockey smarts are top notch. The question is where the offensive game will come into play.

For me he looks like a pretty safe, system's guy who could be a very solid third line player. The problem is that the Rangers don't have a shortage of that type of player.

But if you subscribe to BPA method, he might be our guy.

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06-09-2008, 09:46 AM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Personally I like Teubert, even if his top end is as a bottom pairing defenseman.

I also would take a flyer on Del Zotto before Carlson.

Personally, I'd be happy with either Eberle, Nemisz or Gustafsson as my first round pick.
Glad to see you on your game Edge, Eberle is a guy i've been talking about on here for some time now. And Gustafsson is a safe pick from this years crop. Nemisz has the size so he'll go early, he's like Greg Moore but with better skating at this age.

What are your thoughts on Jared Staal?

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Old
06-09-2008, 11:54 AM
  #949
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FYI, there is a special NHL on the Fly: 2008 Combine Special on the NHL Network tonight at 8pm Eastern.

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06-09-2008, 01:20 PM
  #950
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I was waiting for that one. Carlson and Beach are apples and Oranges. The difference to me is that #1 Beach has been dominant in the WHL. Carlson has not. IMHO Beach probably has a higher ceiling. Beach has the skill.. .it comes down to his attitude. I think a guy like that can mature, but we just don't don't know how a guy like Carlson will look on a big stage yet. Carlson might be a phenom in college, we just haven't seen it yet. I don't know why you would take that high risk with a guy who is supposedly not great at anything. Is he a physical guy? A PP QB? Beach to me(and I could be wrong), is a lower risk, higher reward. To me the biggest concern with him is the two concussions he's had so of course you would want to run him through some testing before any decision is made...

So we know what will happen now... the Rangers will miss Carlson, and he'll be a stud. Or the Rangers will get Beach, and he'll have some sort of medical problem.
just an fyi...Carlson is going to play for the London Knights of the OHL, he has decided not to go to UMass next year.

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