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Old
06-08-2008, 12:49 PM
  #26
sampollock
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
1) Because you acted like this is some new revelation that you alone have seen.... the need for Montreal to get a big centre.... Do you not think its been discussed to death on these boards for many many many years already??
2) You also spoke as though Bob Gainey hasn't been trying or hasn't wanted a big centre.... you assume that they just grow on trees and they are easy for an NHL team to get.... They aren't and they don't come cheap... not through trade or UFA.
good if this has been discussed, then there is a need.

and i know of the long wait to find one, but other teams have done it, have they not?

so it is the habs turn.


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06-08-2008, 03:14 PM
  #27
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Uh-oh.

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06-08-2008, 03:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Yes I hear that they are on sale at Wal-Mart this weekend. Hopefully Gainey gets on his pogo stick (he doesn't drive a car because he is an idiot who doesn't know what he is doing) and goes there. I don't know if he'll be willing to spend that extra 10$ for that big centre that guarantees a cup but hopefully he takes his idiot proof medication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KostitsyntheBagBaby View Post
June 23rd, 11:23PM.


I needed a laugh, thanks guys, now I'm picturing Bob Gainey riding a pogo stick, shaking his head like this

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06-08-2008, 03:31 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Transported Upstater View Post


I needed a laugh, thanks guys, now I'm picturing Bob Gainey riding a pogo stick, shaking his head like this
I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who immediately developed that mental image (and LOL'ed).

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06-08-2008, 03:32 PM
  #30
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Im not of fan of that big scoring center. I think centera must pass the puck around and our guys are good at that. Look at Detroit and Dallas....

Id be looking for a gritty winger, like Brenden Morrow.

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06-08-2008, 04:50 PM
  #31
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I agree with sammy, we need a big centerman to help this team over the hump.

What sammy & I have disagreed on, is the approach to getting one. sammy has all season been willing to breakup the core group to land one, where as I prefer to take the highroad & leave the core in place.

Believe me, we were both very disappointed when Gainey did not land Arnott as an UFA a couple of summers ago. IMO, Arnott centering a line as well a Koivu & Plekanec, would have been much more prodive in the playoffs than a line centered by Smolinski.


sammy has a been wanting Gainey to jar Marleau out of the grip of Doug Wilson since early in the season, but there again, he & I could not agree how it could happen.


As for jumping all over sammy for starting this thread, he & I are both fairly new here & I for didn't realize we had to review all threads prior to posting, so I will apologize now for both of us rehashing old subjects.

So do I understand from the posts here that most feel our forwards are scared to play in front of the net, rather than their inability to muscle their way to the net, as I felt was the problem??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Im not of fan of that big scoring center. I think centera must pass the puck around and our guys are good at that. Look at Detroit and Dallas....

Id be looking for a gritty winger, like Brenden Morrow.
Than what you are saying is that players such as Hossa & Demitra are not the answer & shouldn't be pursuited this summer as UFA??


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06-08-2008, 05:50 PM
  #32
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I don't think anyone was particularly shy about going near the net. I think that a few things happened, and there wasn't time tro do what usually works to fix things. A bit of line juggling, inserting Ryder or Lats, the usual solutions didn't work out.

I think that while Kovalev produced, he changed his game, at least he didn't play the game he played all year that included his linemates so well. Pleks and A.Kost. had to adjust and before you knew it, the mpmentum was rolling for Philly and they didn't seem able to stop it. Once that happens, every mistake ends up in the net.


I think a forward who can help turn things around when they go a bit south, would help. Maybe it's another veteran, but it has to be a vet who can play at near his top level.

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06-08-2008, 05:54 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwey View Post
I agree with sammy, we need a big centerman to help this team over the hump.

What sammy & I have disagreed on, is the approach to getting one. sammy has all season been willing to breakup the core group to land one, where as I prefer to take the highroad & leave the core in place.

Believe me, we were both very disappointed when Gainey did not land Arnott as an UFA a couple of summers ago. IMO, Arnott centering a line as well a Koivu & Plekanec, would have been much more prodive in the playoffs than a line centered by Smolinski.
I very much agree with you here.... we cannot sell the core to get that centre.... if he has no wingers to work with or no defenceman to keep the puck out of the net, there is no point on getting that missing piece. The centre may be the final piece (or at least one of the final pieces, along with one more solid but not superstar d-man).... but removing other pieces to get him will just leave us with other holes....

Thats why I very much want Sundin this off-season.... He may be old, but he's got two years in him... and he's UFA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by uwey
sammy has a been wanting Gainey to jar Marleau out of the grip of Doug Wilson since early in the season, but there again, he & I could not agree how it could happen.
Marleau is not the answer IMO.... he's overrated.... I don't think he's the playoff warrior we need.


Quote:
Originally Posted by uwey
As for jumping all over sammy for starting this thread, he & I are both fairly new here & I for didn't realize we had to review all threads prior to posting, so I will apologize now for both of us rehashing old subjects.
You don't need to review every topic but note there are some that have been discussed to death.

Big Centre
Lecavalier to Montreal possibilities
Get an enforcer??
Price vs Huet/Halak (who is the number 1 goalie, how many games should he play)
Higgins inconsistency; 1st line/3rd line

Are some that come to mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by uwey
So do I understand from the posts here that most feel our forwards are scared to play in front of the net, rather than their inability to muscle their way to the net, as I felt was the problem??

Than what you are saying is that players such as Hossa & Demitra are not the answer & shouldn't be pursuited this summer as UFA??
I don't think they are scared to play there.... I just think that some of our forwards like the Kostitsyns (experience issues).... Latendresse (experience, also needs to be on a scoring line so he can play an offensive style).... Plekanec & Higgins (playoff experience).... Lapierre (experience and should be a winger)....

These guys are very young.... older players can tell them about the playoffs all they want, but they need to experience it for themselves.... They got 12 big games this year.... They'll be better at going to the net next year.

Look at how pittsburgh matured this year. Zetterberg and Datsyuk were awful early in their playoff careers; they were labelled playoff chokers. Give the young kids time to play this style....

But one guy like Sundin can't hurt either....

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06-08-2008, 06:05 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Uwey View Post
Than what you are saying is that players such as Hossa & Demitra are not the answer & shouldn't be pursuited this summer as UFA??
I don't think these guys can change the game like Zetterberg or Lecavalier ( both UFA's next summer ) so no i don't think they are the answer. Even a guy like Erik Cole ( Also UFA next summer ) is more attractive because of the need he fills.

Habs should look into grit guys like Brian Rolston or Bobby Holik. They are good on the PK and help on the PP ( Rolston on the point, Holik in front of the net ). Rolston would cost more as he's a better player tho. ( Oh and Sundin too but we all know it wont happen )

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06-08-2008, 06:06 PM
  #35
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Heh, looks like theres some of us moving away from the previous nest, hi there N8, sam and uwey!

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Old
06-08-2008, 06:07 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
I don't think these guys can change the game like Zetterberg or Lecavalier ( both UFA's next summer ) so no i don't think they are the answer. Even a guy like Erik Cole ( Also UFA next summer ) is more attractive because of the need he fills.

Habs should look into grit guys like Brian Rolston or Bobby Holik. They are good on the PK and help on the PP ( Rolston on the point, Holik in front of the net ). Rolston would cost more as he's a better player tho.
Rolston I'm good with.... I don't know about Holik... I think Holik would end up just being a more expensive Brian Smolinski.

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06-08-2008, 06:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Rolston I'm good with.... I don't know about Holik... I think Holik would end up just being a more expensive Brian Smolinski.
rolston would be interesting.

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Old
06-08-2008, 09:23 PM
  #38
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You guys make me laugh with that infatuation on big centers. How many teams have them? Not a lot. How much do they cost? A lot. Is it necessary to have one to win the Stanley cup? Not at all.

Im not saying that we couldnt use one but its not a priority. We have two very good lines with Koivu and Pleks as our centers which led the way to have the best offense in the NHL. The problem is this;

1) Begin-Smolinski-Kosto
Streit-Lapierre-Dandenault

2) Inexperience of Price

3) Brisebois and Bouillon as regulars

First we need to strenghten our bottom 2 lines. What we had in this year's playoffs will never help you win a cup. They gave us all they had but It was like having two 4th lines out there.

Price needs to continue his progression towards being one of the best in the league.

Lastly, its time to get rid of the dead wood on defense. Brisebois has to go, its time. Its also time to find an upgrade for Bouillon, keep him as a reserve though.

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06-09-2008, 08:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
yes, yes and yes... But no... you have it all right but for defense.


Let BG handle Brisebois. In the playoffs... He was a very godd asset. I want Brisebois to go but for now... O'Byrne has not proven he can outplay him - He is stronger but Brisebois moves the puck much better... I really hope and think O'Byrne will be better than Brisebois but not now...
Valentenko... He is not here yet! He is not even in NHL (hopes he comes at the beginning of next year)

Bouillon too but do we have anyone to take his place. I have seen him fight with players that almost anybody (can't always ask to Komi to do everything) would NOT take on.
For me the replacement of Bouillon at this stage is Emelin... Unless you want to pay 2-3M for a player who may not have defensive skills like him. Forget that play in game 4 against Flyers... He is reliable... That move by Kesler was very good, Extremely good. Give it to Kesler... If you won't... he will show it again next year...

I would keep them both... Until our prospects can CLEARLY replace them. This is not the case now!.
You are overrating Bouillon, he is clearly not that good and ive been saying it for a while. He would be a spare in any team in this league. Hes not that good with the puck, panics under pressure has one of the weakest shot and on top of that hes 5'8. Hes the perfect 7th defensman to haveon your team because he will push his teammates to work hard but hes not regular in this league. His defensive skills arent that great. Like it or not, OByrne should be regular next year and if we get another top 4 D then Bouillon should be out. This is what i call "upgrading", you should always look to upgrade your team and Bouillon an Brisebois are the weakest in that defensive corps.

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06-09-2008, 09:23 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jcpenny View Post
You are overrating Bouillon, he is clearly not that good and ive been saying it for a while. He would be a spare in any team in this league. Hes not that good with the puck, panics under pressure has one of the weakest shot and on top of that hes 5'8. Hes the perfect 7th defensman to haveon your team because he will push his teammates to work hard but hes not regular in this league. His defensive skills arent that great. Like it or not, OByrne should be regular next year and if we get another top 4 D then Bouillon should be out. This is what i call "upgrading", you should always look to upgrade your team and Bouillon an Brisebois are the weakest in that defensive corps.
I like to defend Bouillon because, ....., well I just do. I think his contributions, as Pam was saying are important.

Your criticisms are also perfectly valid. I know you don't bash for the sake of bashing, so, the question gets to be, how do you benefit from Bouillon's heart, in terms of the occasional big hit, his battles with guys twice his size, the streaks where he seems to block shots, skate the puck out of his end etc. ?

I think you need 1 more D to step up, hopefully O'bryne and take more of a role. We saw Gorges imperove as the year went on. So, if O'b, or Valentenko or a ufa takes up more responsibility, Bouillon can be spotted more, counted on less. Coaching should insulate a team from being burnt by a 6th,7th d man. Carbo never seemed reluctant to use Bou and Gorges against top opposition, maybe that'll change as others improve.

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06-09-2008, 11:03 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I am sure this is not trolling but... No Habs fans would write that.

.....

Pam.... when a user posts this smilie ....

It means that they are being sarcastic....

He was not taking shots at gainey, he was making fun of the OP's premise that Gainey hasn't tried to get a big centre.

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06-09-2008, 11:07 AM
  #42
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Ouch, icerocket got told, son.

I haven't cringed like that since amandarleb got dowsed with scalding poutine.

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06-09-2008, 11:37 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I like to defend Bouillon because, ....., well I just do. I think his contributions, as Pam was saying are important.

Your criticisms are also perfectly valid. I know you don't bash for the sake of bashing, so, the question gets to be, how do you benefit from Bouillon's heart, in terms of the occasional big hit, his battles with guys twice his size, the streaks where he seems to block shots, skate the puck out of his end etc. ?

I think you need 1 more D to step up, hopefully O'bryne and take more of a role. We saw Gorges imperove as the year went on. So, if O'b, or Valentenko or a ufa takes up more responsibility, Bouillon can be spotted more, counted on less. Coaching should insulate a team from being burnt by a 6th,7th d man. Carbo never seemed reluctant to use Bou and Gorges against top opposition, maybe that'll change as others improve.
I dont hate the guy but when you manage a team you should look to improve your team every year and i think we need to improve our D.

Let me tell you this, i remember a year when he was out of the line up and we went on a 7 game winning streak to make the playoffs. This year he was injured towards the end of the year and the team didnt miss a beat. We even did fine without him during the first round. Hes not essential to the team's success at all. Lets make him our 7th Dman and use him like with did with Bisebois.

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06-09-2008, 11:46 AM
  #44
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I dont hate the guy but when you manage a team you should look to improve your team every year and i think we need to improve our D.

Let me tell you this, i remember a year when he was out of the line up and we went on a 7 game winning streak to make the playoffs. This year he was injured towards the end of the year and the team didnt miss a beat. We even did fine without him during the first round. Hes not essential to the team's success at all. Lets make him our 7th Dman and use him like with did with Bisebois.
I guess it's not a new thing, you have to find a way to profit from a guy's good points and not be hurt by his bad. True though, as the team improves, Bouilon's spot is one that becomes precarious. I still admire what he brings at times, but I'm not blind.

I was just thinking about the wisom of signing a d man or at least trying to sign a guy like Lilles. You could approximate Streit's offense and at least not go thru long strteches when you just can't use him on D.

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06-09-2008, 03:25 PM
  #45
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WOW!!!

sammy has started a thread that has sprunned some of the best debate about what this team needs in the short amount of time I have been here.


I think there have been several areas poitned out that could be improved on. This team is undoubtedly headed in the right direction & the young core must be kept intact.

Some people shrug off the theory of a big centerman, but this team needs guys who his size in the faceoff circle, along the boards & in front of the net. A guy who is not shoved around like Saku & Tomas when they are digging down low. That said, we don't need a knuckling dragging gorilla neither.

The D, I agree could be upgraded as well, but I also think O'Bryne & Valentenko must be involved with this team as well this winter. Cube(Bouillon) & Gorges show lots of heart & soul, but often can't fend off the bigger forwards especially in the NE division. If we could pop Cube's brain out & pop it into O'Bryne's body, well, WOW, just imagine. Cube's problem is he can't defend down low without taking costly penalty. Forwards with longer reach & stronger legs kill him in front of the net. IMO, Cube is the kind of D-man you want to keep a 7th D-man, he'd be perfect in that roll. If any trade is to be made, I would prefer it would be for blueline help.


& lastly, another top 9 winger. You may ask why I say top nine, but I believe Gainey & Carbo want a team that can't be inter-changable especially the top three lines. A player like Brian Rolston would be perfect. He can play all three forward positions, he is fac st & sturdy on his skates & he doesn't mind doing some of the digging down low.


Gads, it would take much to put this team over the top IMO.

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06-09-2008, 03:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Uwey View Post
Gads, it would take much to put this team over the top IMO.
See I don't see it as taking that much.....

1) To me its one big UFA signing.... (Sundin).....
2) The defence is fine IMO..... Bouillion as a 5-6 is not as big a liability as you say... and I liked Bouillion-Gorges last year.... maybe we are on depth D away; or a replacement for streit.
3) I like the three offensive lines Idea, but you already have 5 offensive wingers... and Sundin gives you three offensive centres..... While a Rolston signing would be nice you don't have to get him.... That last spot can be a competition between Grabovski/D'Ago/MaxPac/Stewart/Lapierre/Streit (if resigned)/Chipchura etc.... If Lapierre or Chips win insert Begin on the fourth line....

Your lines look like this

Akost - Plek - Kovy
Higgins - Sundin - Sergei
Latendresse - Koivu - (see point 3)
Kosto - Chips - Lappierre
Extra: Begin + 2nd place in point 3

Markov - Komi
Hammer - O'Byrne
Bouillion - Gorges
Extra: Breezy or Tank

Price
Halak...



Now Rolston could still be a good signing... and its one I actually like a lot, cause i think he has the shot and ability to replace Streit on the point on the first PP unit.

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06-09-2008, 04:49 PM
  #47
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Beaker, I just don't think we'd be on Rolstron's radar. Could be wrong, but I don't see it. I like him as a player but I think he may stay closer to home.

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06-09-2008, 05:31 PM
  #48
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Beaker, I just don't think we'd be on Rolstron's radar. Could be wrong, but I don't see it. I like him as a player but I think he may stay closer to home.
I can see that too... I didn't say he was a lock to come here, far from it... but you have to make a pitch for him.

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06-09-2008, 05:39 PM
  #49
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New York City style riot police?
Sorry, not much to add after all these Habs needs posts and threads.

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06-09-2008, 05:55 PM
  #50
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I beg to differ on the subject of the D.

I was huge supporter of Gorges during training & early in the season, plus I believe he will be a top 4 D-man in this league, but not just yet. Cube, is at best, #7 D-man for the Habs.

There is room for improvement to make this team a true contender next season. We have Markov, Komi & Hammer as the top three. IMO, if we add another experienced D-man, along with the two kids Valentenko & O'Bryne & keep Cube as the 7th D-man, our defense would be solidified for a couple more seasons.

Now there was & is no bigger supporter of growing a team from within than I, but I also believe we are at the point where there is more than enough future players & that without disrupting the main core, some of the others can be used to make at least a decent, which I would say is needed on D. Example, a prospects like Grabber, who IMO, is extra piece to this puzzle, can be moved on as part of a deal for either the forementioned or to invest into the future as in an upcoming draft pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
Beaker, I just don't think we'd be on Rolstron's radar. Could be wrong, but I don't see it. I like him as a player but I think he may stay closer to home.

From what I have read, Rolston wants to resign with the Wild, unlike Demitra.

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