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Find the Flyers a defenseman

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Old
06-09-2008, 01:48 PM
  #51
93xxGilmourxx93
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27roenick97 View Post
kaberle is too expensive to get, due to his inexpensive contract and all star status. i don't doubt that homer was looking to move carter and that first for kaberle, loading up for a playoff run. w/ him and a healthy coburn and timonen, the flyers make it to the cup i think.

carter is an intrinsic part of this team however and the only big body centerman we have. w/o him, the average center size goes under six feet and two hundred pounds--the flyers get too small. carter is a specific mold of centermen (a la the jordan and eric staal) that the flyers need. what i'm trying to say is that kaberle is way too expensive for the flyers to get.

as for kubina, the cap numbers wouldn't work, but he'd be the ideal type of player for us. a vet to tutor parent on the second pairing. thats what the flyers are looking for, but at a cheaper price.
I'm not sure about that, but the series would have been a LOT closer, that's for sure.

Gotcha on the Kaberle thing. And yes, Carter would have been a high price to pay, even for a deadline deal. That kid's gonna be huge in a few years.

If you're looking for someone physical and cheap, Jim Vandermeer's a UFA this summer - not as talented as a Kaberle or Kubina, but he could probably be signed for about 2 million. I'm kinda hoping the Leafs look at him if we move Kubina and McCabe/Kaberle

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Old
06-09-2008, 01:51 PM
  #52
oandb18
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Ug this thread is awful.

Umberger is likely the only one on the block.


The Flyers need to upgrade the D, but are close to the cap.

Their choices are:

1. Sign one of the ****ty overpriced UFAs

2. Move a young talented player, like Carter or Lupul for a good defender

You might like to think Umberger is enough to get a good defenseman, but he isn't.

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Old
06-09-2008, 02:05 PM
  #53
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How about Joni Pitkanen? I heard the Flyers really liked him.

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Old
06-09-2008, 02:53 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Pointteen View Post
How about Joni Pitkanen? I heard the Flyers really liked him.
Sorry, but no mental midgets.

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Old
06-09-2008, 03:31 PM
  #55
Armond White
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I must say, for the second straight year, the Flyers will have a very interesting offseason.

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06-09-2008, 03:48 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93xxGilmourxx93 View Post
I'm not sure about that, but the series would have been a LOT closer, that's for sure.

Gotcha on the Kaberle thing. And yes, Carter would have been a high price to pay, even for a deadline deal. That kid's gonna be huge in a few years.

If you're looking for someone physical and cheap, Jim Vandermeer's a UFA this summer - not as talented as a Kaberle or Kubina, but he could probably be signed for about 2 million. I'm kinda hoping the Leafs look at him if we move Kubina and McCabe/Kaberle
I really hope you just forgot to add the sarcasm emoticon. If you didn't then you're really out of the loop there.

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Old
06-09-2008, 04:18 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Cheektovanek View Post
I must say, for the second straight year, the Flyers will have a very interesting offseason.
I think so, too, albeit with a lot less money spent. I would guess that Carter and Jones stay, Umberger goes (either via draft day trade for defense/picks or offer sheet), Hatcher plays one more year, a decent 2nd pairing d-man is acquired, and Giroux makes the team out of camp.

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Old
06-09-2008, 04:25 PM
  #58
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I would give the Flyers Kyle McLaren for a 3rd round pick. He's only got a 2.5 million dollar cap hit for next year and then he's a free agent. Fair enough?

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Old
06-09-2008, 04:53 PM
  #59
voxel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oandb18 View Post
On the table:
RJ Umberger
One of Gagne/Lupul/Carter
Picks
lesser prospects

Make an offer for a combination of the above.
Lupul + 3rd(or 4th) for Suter.

I don't see much of a demand for Umberger/Upshall types... they'll fetch a second rounder at most and not a useful D-man. There aren't many teams with surplus D-men anyhow - more teams with surplus forwards.

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Old
06-09-2008, 04:58 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
I really hope you just forgot to add the sarcasm emoticon. If you didn't then you're really out of the loop there.
I couldn't, your post seems to have used up all the emoticons.

My bad though, I forgot Philly really is THAT close to the cap.

Just send Richards to TO for Wellwood and that should clear the cap room you'll need for Vandermeer

(and yes, THAT was a joke)

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06-09-2008, 05:28 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by voxel View Post
Lupul + 3rd(or 4th) for Suter.

I don't see much of a demand for Umberger/Upshall types... they'll fetch a second rounder at most and not a useful D-man. There aren't many teams with surplus D-men anyhow - more teams with surplus forwards.
I'd do that trade.

As for the values of Upshall and Umberger, Upshall would probably be worth a 2nd at most, but not Umberger. Even before the playoffs started I would've said he's worth a good defensive prospect or a mid to late 1st rounder. He was a top 6 forward for the Flyers this year and can play on any line and kill penalties, he's worth significantly more than a 2nd. A 2nd is a crapshoot and most teams would be very happy to get a player of Umberger's caliber late in the 1st round.

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Old
06-09-2008, 05:29 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93xxGilmourxx93 View Post
I couldn't, your post seems to have used up all the emoticons.

My bad though, I forgot Philly really is THAT close to the cap.

Just send Richards to TO for Wellwood and that should clear the cap room you'll need for Vandermeer

(and yes, THAT was a joke)
It has nothing to do with the cap. Vandermeer played for the Flyers this year and was their worst defenseman of the year.

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Old
06-09-2008, 05:46 PM
  #63
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To Philly

Edler and a 2nd in 08


To Vancouver

Jeff Carter

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Old
06-09-2008, 06:15 PM
  #64
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I posted a proposal of RJ Umberger for Zbynek Michalek.

I'm probably the only Flyers fan that would say this, but I wouldn't have a problem either if the Flyers signed Michal Roszival to be the number 3 guy and be partnered with Ryan Parent and then sign someone like Dmitri Kalinin to be partnered with Lasse Kukkonen. Roszival is a solid point producer and having someone like Parent be the defensive guy would more than cover for any of Roszival's short comings and having Kalinin as the number 5 means he's not top dog, doesn't have to think about carrying the team and can get his head back in the game and play solid hockey again.

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Old
06-09-2008, 06:20 PM
  #65
ELab2
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I would give the Flyers Kyle McLaren for a 3rd round pick. He's only got a 2.5 million dollar cap hit for next year and then he's a free agent. Fair enough?
If Hatcher retires I would be VERY interested in that deal as a 3rd pairing replacement for Hatcher. Get us back some of our edge on the blueline and McLaren would be great to help teach some of these kids how to be more physical.

And I would definitely do the Lupul+ for Suter deal.

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Old
06-09-2008, 06:34 PM
  #66
Winston Wolf
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I posted a proposal of RJ Umberger for Zbynek Michalek.

I'm probably the only Flyers fan that would say this, but I wouldn't have a problem either if the Flyers signed Michal Roszival to be the number 3 guy and be partnered with Ryan Parent and then sign someone like Dmitri Kalinin to be partnered with Lasse Kukkonen. Roszival is a solid point producer and having someone like Parent be the defensive guy would more than cover for any of Roszival's short comings and having Kalinin as the number 5 means he's not top dog, doesn't have to think about carrying the team and can get his head back in the game and play solid hockey again.
Roszival is going to be very expensive. I'd pass on him.

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Old
06-09-2008, 07:24 PM
  #67
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If Holmgren re-signs Carter, Umberger, and Jones plus Hatcher is put on LTI, then he may not really have to move anyone. Guenin, Bartulis, and Kukkonen will battle for 5/6. If Hatcher is LTI or retires, then it may take a Knuble move, but I think Holmgren finds a way to make a run at either Suter or Hamhuis from Nashville or makes a play for Campbell, then makes it all work by training camp. Giroux and Gagne returning are going to push someone out...Lupul, unless someone desperately wants Umberger and Jones as a package along with a pick for a top three dman.

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Old
06-09-2008, 09:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I'd have interest in Krajicek, he's not quite the guy the Flyers need but I think if they sign Krajicek and a vet to be the 2nd pairing Krajicek can be the #3 we need in a couple of years.

I'd give you Upshall straight up or Knuble and midlevel prospect.
Upshall straight up for Krajicek? dear canucks fans, take this deal and RUN! Not trying to be insulting but if Holmgren offered this to Gillis and I think gillis would check to see if it was april 1st. (yes i know it's past the trade deadline)


anyway, For bieksa i could see upshall and a bit more. But for krajicek, i think you philly fans are selling upshall short.

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Old
06-09-2008, 09:34 PM
  #69
ELab2
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Originally Posted by Kikizaz View Post
Upshall straight up for Krajicek? dear canucks fans, take this deal and RUN! Not trying to be insulting but if Holmgren offered this to Gillis and I think gillis would check to see if it was april 1st. (yes i know it's past the trade deadline)


anyway, For bieksa i could see upshall and a bit more. But for krajicek, i think you philly fans are selling upshall short.
maybe a little bit but it's a matter of need. That would pretty much be my deal of last resort of I was Homer. I hate to talk about it in this way but Bourdon's death really screwed the Canucks/Flyers D/O lovefest.

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Old
06-10-2008, 12:05 AM
  #70
mercury
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Originally Posted by 93xxGilmourxx93 View Post
I couldn't, your post seems to have used up all the emoticons.

My bad though, I forgot Philly really is THAT close to the cap.

Just send Richards to TO for Wellwood and that should clear the cap room you'll need for Vandermeer

(and yes, THAT was a joke)
We're not that close to the cap, really. We have the 10% overage, the offseason cap should be something like $62 million, and Gauthier and Rathje won't count. If Hatcher retires and/or Umberger is traded or lost to a big offer sheet, we will have some money to spend on D.

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Old
06-10-2008, 07:17 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
It has nothing to do with the cap. Vandermeer played for the Flyers this year and was their worst defenseman of the year.
This guy has no idea what he is talking about. Bring Vandermeer back? ewwww
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlak View Post
A) Krajicek is still an RFA at the end of the year.
Great, keep him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlak View Post
B) Krajicek is good and you need good defencemen, that's why.
He is ok. He is not top 3 d-man and that’s what Flyers need. So makes zero sense to trade R.J, Upshall and forget about Giroux (our 2nd best prospect and our most ready NHL prospect)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandlak View Post
C) Giroux is a good prospect, yes, but he was drafted at almost the same position as Krajicek, who was a similar prospect at one point. Krajicek is still developing, and he's already a solid 4-5 guy, with 2-3 potential. I'm not surprised that Philly fans would balk at the mention of Giroux, since prospects are grossly overvalued here. Remember, there would have been a time when you would have overvalued Krajicek in the same way. Since then, all he's done is develop into a solid young defenceman.
Now Giroux is overvalued? I am just curios, how? You know what? I do not even care about your opinion on Giroux and how he is overvalued or overrated. You will probably come up with some senseless BS anyway.
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Originally Posted by Sandlak View Post
D) I don't know what the difference is between Jones and Krajicek. Why do you ask?
Well, because Krajicek is very similar player to Jones who is also 4-5-6 d-man on our team. Minus shoulder surgery.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 06-10-2008 at 07:30 AM.
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Old
06-10-2008, 07:31 AM
  #72
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As for the values of Upshall and Umberger, Upshall would probably be worth a 2nd at most, but not Umberger. Even before the playoffs started I would've said he's worth a good defensive prospect or a mid to late 1st rounder. He was a top 6 forward for the Flyers this year and can play on any line and kill penalties, he's worth significantly more than a 2nd. A 2nd is a crapshoot and most teams would be very happy to get a player of Umberger's caliber late in the 1st round.
I think you seriously overvalue the replacement value of Umberger - he's not only competing with the draft pick but all the UFAs and other players around league that can score 15G 30A. He's like a Pisani and Trent Hunter - who play well in all situations - but that doesn't mean their value is high.

A 2nd is crapshoot, but it's still a lottery ticket and that ticket could get you Patrice Bergeon or Shea Weber. At the trade deadline, Umberger could be worth as high as a late 1st, but not in the offseason. Frankly, I can't recall any those sorts trades in the offseason... usually teams will dip into the FA pool first and maybe by training camp consider trading for Umberger-types.

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Old
06-10-2008, 07:56 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by CanuckSniper View Post
To Philly

Edler and a 2nd in 08


To Vancouver

Jeff Carter
Edler,Schneider, 1st in 08 for Jeff Carter

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Old
06-10-2008, 07:57 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voxel View Post
A 2nd is crapshoot, but it's still a lottery ticket and that ticket could get you Patrice Bergeon or Shea Weber. At the trade deadline, Umberger could be worth as high as a late 1st, but not in the offseason. Frankly, I can't recall any those sorts trades in the offseason... usually teams will dip into the FA pool first and maybe by training camp consider trading for Umberger-types.
Last one was Demitra from Kings to Min for 1st round pick in 2006, Hartnell and Timonen to Philly for Nash 1st round pick last year.

I do not think Umberger is worth 1st round pick in this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteo View Post
Edler,Schneider, 1st in 08 for Jeff Carter
this is really good value. I'd consider it. Flyers can draft Meyer with Van pick.

Top 9 forwards: Gagne (6'0), Richards (5'11), Briere (5'9), Hartnell (6'2), Lupul (6'1), Umberger (6'2), Upshall (6'0), Downie (5'11), Giroux (5'11), JVR (6'3). Hit or miss projects: Maroon (6'3), Klotz (6'5 enforcer) and Nodl (6'1)

D-man: Timonen (5'10), Coburn (6'5), Edler (6'3), Parent (6'2), Meyer (6'6) and soon to be ready Marshall (6'0) outstanding.

Biron
Schneider (he will play 20-25 games per season)

All Flyers need to do is add size to 3rd and 4th line centers.
This is a very young team with good group of forwards and top notch d-man.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 06-10-2008 at 08:17 AM.
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Old
06-10-2008, 08:17 AM
  #75
mercury
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this is really good value. I'd consider it. Flyers can draft Meyer with Van pick.
Unfortunately, that deal was proposed by a Flyers fan. I'd do it in a heartbeat, too. Vancouver fans would most likely ask to drop the 1st rounder entirely.

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